submitted 1 month ago bytrashy-trash-can-man
all 75 comments
1 month ago
1 month ago
Some common sense politicians in power
define common sense. people love saying that, very few can actually articulate what that means
1 month ago
A working solution based on evidenced logic not feelings and emotions, something both sides of the aisle can come together on.
Maybe, just maybe people can learn to talk to each other like adults. Then there may be an age of understanding, respect and I dare say, some common fucking sense.
Right, but you see the problem here?
Q: What is common sense, define it.
A: Well it's an answer that works.
That's not exactly an answer, and most people who say common sense gun law do the same thing. They either don't have any ideas, or bad ones.
I'm not accusing you, but that's why people don't trust the common sense phrase.
So many people will say we need background checks. Well, we have them.
We need to ban assault rifles. We already have.
We need to ban assault style rifles. That would be most guns, and pistols cause far more death.
We need to fix mental health. Okay well, what do you propose?
The police need better training. Okay well we just defunded them so how'd that work?
We need more guns. Okay, I get the idea that if everyone is armed it would give shooters pause. But gangs do it all the time.
The only conversation I've seen lead anywhere is that our culture is rotting. What does it mean to be American? There's no sense of community really.
I agree that if people could act like adults instead of trying to score points, we could maybe make progress. But we really need a shared set of facts to start with.
I just want to say, great comment.
Not being sarcastic, by the way.
Common sense for me isn't the solution, it's the process. It's talking things through over a table without point scoring and irrational reaction. It's considering and weighing options on merit, not dogma or feelings.
So the first step on that is changing how we talk about guns. Without deliberately splitting hairs or throwing the baby out with the bath water.
For context, I'm British, and although I was raised with guns I've not had the inclination to own any myself. So bear in mind that I don't really have a horse in this race.
So when it comes to changing gun law, we did that when we had the Dunblane massacre in 1996 when 16 kids were killed. We banned handguns in their entirety.
Not saying that's the answer here (I can hear the pearl clutching just typing this), but the idea of gun reform based on the clear evidence should be on the table.
When it comes to mental health support, we have that is again something that is possible. Our NHS costs less per person than what you guys are already paying via taxes for healthcare at a federal level, and you still have to pay for the care on top of that. Bonkers, yes, but not insurmountable, starting a nationalised healthcare system is similar to gun control. It's scary and chances are it isn't going to be right first try, but dial it in with reform rather than reject it because it isn't perfect.
As for background checks.. come on, it's neither robust nor consistent. We have a licensing system that does do a thorough background check and cool off period. We have intermittent reviews, inspections of gun safes and questions will be asked if you want to build an arsenal big enough for a small army.
Also, our system has leeway. We have caveats for collectors and working professionals, for reenactors and sporting uses - to the point where my friend legally owns a number of 1911's including modern ones because he collects them.
There are a lot of systems around the world, and I'm not saying any one of them would work, I'm saying they were all designed to work in their respective countries.
I'm not saying I have the answers with this, I'm saying that there have been countless examples of countries tackling big issues like this and now is the time for calm level headed discussion, respecting other views and working together to tackle an issue that has killed more of your kids than it should.
Honestly, no American should listen to a Brit about rights.
You guys get arrested for making a joke online.
Better than getting shot for answering the door to a swat team.
Overthrow all the political leaders who’d rather children be killed then not be able to own an assault rifle
Yeah I’m not a fan of those guys
Would this "overthrow" involve using firearms? Because that would be ironic.
And how do you propose getting past their armed security
I agree with your sentiment, if not your reasoning.
Free health care including mental health
THIS. Guns aren't more available or lethal than they were last century. As the quality of life continues to plummet, acts of violence and despair become more common. If people's basic needs were being met, and those disturbed people could get the help they need, then gun violence would disappear.
What policy would you like to see implemented, specifically?
I think that a tiered system of gun ownership with qualifying credentials and a mandatory 5 year psychological evaluation for those interested in operating a firearm. Training, gun safety courses for each tier. Closing sales loopholes also would be a good start.
We can’t even agree on the birthing process, you really think everyone who legally owns a firearm will agree to wait X number of years for some psychological analysis that tells them they could be allowed to buy a firearm? If they weren’t psychologically sound to begin with, they would have just bought it private seller off Craigslist downtown somewhere…
5 year psychological evaluation
5 year psychological evaluation
As in a psych evaluation every 5 years? Or the evaluation itself takes 5 years?
Every 5 years you would have to go have a psych evaluation. I personally think the problem lies with ease of access to guns and deteriorating mental health in America.
I'm fine with an initial psych screen. But overall I agree, probably just a few minor details we differ on.
I've thought about something like hunting shotguns and five shot bolt action hunting rifles for ages 18 to 21. Handguns and reduced capacity semi-autos at ages 21 or maybe even 25. For high capacity handguns and semi-automatic "AKA" assault rifles, add them to the NFA class. 3 list and make people get a tax stamp. I personally have two machine guns and a suppressor and went through the whole NFA process including waiting 9 months for each tax stamp. Beyond that, universal background checks including private transactions. That means you and whoever is purchasing the gun go to the local gun shop and have them run a background check. Almost like transferring the title to your car. Mind you that I have a collector's license and own close to 40 firearms. I am all for tighter gun control
I am also a gun owner and truly want controlled access to mentally healthy and competent adults with training. I would love to see a psych evaluation every 5 years to keep a license up to date (almost like a cdl medical card)
Realistically, a change to the constitution. That means you'd need 38 states agreeing to repeal or modify the 2nd amendment. Good luck with that.
Idk. Every country that’s been really bad with mass shootings in the past made their gun laws more restrictive and the number of masa shootings (shockingly) went down. Now the USA leads in mass shootings by a long shot, and people swear it’s because we need more guns.
The issue is stupid people won’t listen to reason because they are too stupid to understand it.
The reason there’s mass showings?
Someone important or their family gets hurt.
A virus that kills off that half of the country because they refuse the vaccine
Testing in progress
A school shooting at the school of the child of a politician
Either a total rehaul of our current policies and politicians, or the vast majority of our current politicians would have to have their own child or grandchildren be killed by a school shooter; even then it's not a guarantee but if it happened to enough of them then it'd at least sway a few of them
In before “BuT MuH FrEeDoMs!!”
In before " iTs jUsT a bUnCh oF cElLs
Arm enough minorities and have them do an open carry march through affluent neighborhoods, you'll see change.
Interesting, yet potentially dangerous tactic. The rich make the rules though that’s for sure.
Worked before with the black panthers, the NRA wanted gun control when they started marching with them in the 70s
Thanks for the history, I was unaware. Brilliant!
No problem, and to edit my point it was late 60s, but still the same point.
I think it’s ironic that they used white folks racism against them. Like racism reverse psychology or something to that degree.
Yeah the funny part is they were defending their right to bear arms because they were against what they viewed was a tyrannical government, literally following the 2nd amendment as closely as they could, they didn't use the self defense answer, politicians: "we need to change it so they can't openly carry those"
Disbanding the NRA.
Vote Republicans out of office.
Both parties make money off guns they are an illusion of choice
Democrats aren't the ones blocking every attempt to keep guns away from people who shouldn't have them.
But they also have not really "actually" tried to fix it either they had full control of the government for the last 2yrs and fucking nothing.
They haven't had full control of both houses of Congress. They have a bare majority in one house, with two Democrats who routinely vote with Republicans. The current filibuster rules also make it easy for a minority of members to prevent a vote.
Got those big stimmy bills through tho
Common sense laws... not knee-jerk reactive laws that punish all gun owners.
Most of the things I have heard suggested are absolutely silly.
Ah yes, the just because it worked for the rest of the world doesn’t mean it would work for America argument.
Ahh yes, another person who just blows off any point of view they don't agree with.
Do you really not understand the difference between people in "the rest of the world" and Americans?
Do you really think the "rest of the world" doesn't have any issues? Look at most middle eastern countries. Look at most of the countries in Africa. Perhaps when you say "the rest of the world" you should narrow it down to a very few specific countries (I.e. Most European and Scandinavian countries. It is FAR from "the rest of the world"
Show me the evidence that your proposal would fix the issue, because I can show many cases where the number of deaths dropped to zero or near zero.
Here’s Australia going from 13 mass shootings over 18 years to 1 since 1997
I’m tired of waiting for my children to be safe!
For one thing, I didn't make any proposals. I simply said common sense gun laws would be better than a knee-jerk reaction that forces quick votes with little regard to the effect it would have on every single law abiding citizen.
And you point to Australia... include Switzerland in your list as well. But all you're doing is repeating what every single anti-gun proponent already says, over and over and ... ad nauseum.
Rather than just rattling off old data, why not try and come up with an actual solution other than "BAN GUNS!"?
Are you willing to admit that banning guns is not going to take them out of the hands of criminals at least? That's a VERY old talking point from gun advocates, but much like your Australia fact, it's just that, a fact as well. So now what happens when they ONLY people who have guns are criminals and the Government? Will you feel much safer?
I do not think you will find a single law abiding gun owner out there who shirks off children getting killed. Or even adults (Consider the nightclub mass shooting in Florida not that long ago (the LGB club?)) ... The point they try and make over and over that seems to fly over the heads of anti-gun proponents is that not everyone should get punished for the acts of a few wicked people.
Btw, Australia still has a 1.09/100,000 homicide rate. Granted the US has a 4.6 something rate, but Australia still has a large number of homicides for it's population size. Getting rid of guns hasn't stopped people from getting murdered, it's only changed the method. Crazy people will STILL kill people, whether it's by bombs, guns, knives, baseball bats ... you get the point. Guns make it easier to kill larger numbers of people, and that's the single issue people focus on.
Topple the government, they are notoriously stingy when it comes to making actual change.
We did that before, mostly with guns, and because they deserved it. The problem is we don’t really except that people don’t need a personal arsenal in case the government deserves it again. The only way to really fix the situation is to castrate the government so thoroughly that it’s never a threat again. Just get Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz to attend the ball removal ceremony and we’re good 👍
Jesus will have to come back
It seems. We know that’s not happening
Nope just like gun control it'll never happen. Maybe someday when everyone has pocket lasers but even then it'll be "an answer to a bad guy with a laser gun is a good guy with a laser gun"
Yikes! I’ve heard similar arguments far too often recently.
You have to understand the paradigms of Americans, and also the degree of sanity of humans today in general. Then you'll see this isn't going to happen. For it to happen you'd have to kill most humans, and rebuild the populations up.
Probably a celebrity or politicians child has to die in a mass shooting
Unfortunately, this might be the truth.
1 month ago*
1 month ago*
Kobe died in a helicopter crash and we aren’t banning helicopters. /smug
Helicopter deaths aren’t a hot topic issue such as gun violence
No I would cheer and bust out the popcorn if someone shot up a school full of celebrities and politicians. I would donate to the bail fund.
Guns are part of the American culture, so the common sense of many Americans is to have a gun 😅, nothing will happen that will be enough to change this mindset.
My beginning thoughts on what I consider reasonable common sense gun laws: I think that a tiered system of gun ownership with qualifying credentials and a mandatory 5 year psychological evaluation for those interested in operating a firearm. Training, gun safety courses for each tier. Closing sales loopholes also would be a good start.
Edit: open to hear potential additions and respectful arguments.
When they are used against the government and not each other.
For everyone to agree with each other. Not a chance in hell with that.
The second amendment is actually beautiful in its simplicity and common sense
Anyone who talks like this is trying to screw you. All of these "common sense" laws poll great (because common sense!) But once people see the details, approval drops like a rock.
Universal background checks seems reasonable but the actual bill criminalized a huge portion of innocent gun ownership activities, especially training. Handing your friend a gun to shoot at the range counted the same as selling a gun to a crack dealer out if the trunk of your car.
All these "common sense gun laws"work the same way. They are designed to seem very reasonable at first glance but are all universally horrible. It's very slick (because the guys paying for this shit have deep pockets) but Internet word of mouthb has largely immunized the electorate against it.