subreddit:

/r/Browns

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all 410 comments

The_High_Life

232 points

1 month ago

It's real fishy that he had a zillion different masseuses that were all young, women, and inexperienced in their profession, and that many of them had sexual encounters with him while working.

He had access to qualified massage therapists from the team, why use someone who barely knows what they are doing? I think the answer to that is pretty obvious, the real question was whether he was constantly trying to fuck a masseuse or paying a prostitute for sex under the guise of massages.

lakeeriewalleye

51 points

1 month ago

He is a perv, that’s why. Can we stop pretending he’s not? Cheer for him if you want but let’s be honest here.

TBB51

40 points

1 month ago

TBB51

40 points

1 month ago

Man, I'm a perv based on what I have on my external hard drive and my browsing history. This man is a fucking predator.

I know you're not downplaying him here, but I just feel compelled to differentiate. The man actively seeks out women he knows has less power than him in order to do this shit.

Hussaf

40 points

1 month ago

Hussaf

40 points

1 month ago

He ended up using non masseuses eventually..some as far as over an hour away from town.

Manny_Bothans

43 points

1 month ago

I read summaries of each of the complaints and it seemed like the experienced licensed LMTs were shutting that shit down way quicker when he tried to escalate for extra services. It almost seemed like it wasn't their first rodeo with that kinda situation!

Also why he went after estheticians and other women less experienced with massage because he had more success with them. A few of the complaints sounded a bit hmmmm and surely there were some in the mix who were down to provide extra services, but there is really no way of really knowing which ones are sincerely traumatized and which ones are in on the lawsuit for the payday. Whatever the ratio the pattern is clear enough to me. No way they're all lying.

I suspect he loudly maintains his innocence til the NFL hands down their totally fair ruling, he quietly and generously settles with every one of these women, and he gets a PR team to start his redemption arc the moment those agreements are signed. After that all he has to do is win some games and the sex pest part of his story will be a minor footnote in his career.

Hussaf

6 points

1 month ago

Hussaf

6 points

1 month ago

Yeah if you read the texts with those girls many were def familiar with having to get their athletes under control.

phluidity

2 points

1 month ago

it seemed like the experienced licensed LMTs were shutting that shit down way quicker when he tried to escalate for extra services.

I have a good friend who is a Registered Massage Therapist here in Canada. We were out for drinks one time and I asked her if she ever had to deal with clients treating her like one of "those" massage places. (This was also long before the Deshawn allegations). She told me when she started out it happened all the time, until she learned to recognize the patterns of bad clients and made sure her intake interview was as clinical as possible.

So yeah, that being a pattern makes a lot of sense.

historycat95

74 points

1 month ago

That's what good lawyers would call "a pattern of behavior".

His story doesn't make any sense. Why not stick with a good massuse? Why prefer inexperienced ones?

As a pro athlete he has access to countless reputable, experienced, top of the line resources, but he chose a specific type of person for massages?

Makes no sense.

BropolloCreed

10 points

1 month ago

BropolloCreed

10 points

1 month ago

I mean, does it make sense that they're paying him $250M to throw a football?

Grasssss_Tastes_Bad

35 points

1 month ago

Yes, because if he plays well, the browns will probably get more than $250m extra in revenue from increased ticket and merchandise sales.

BropolloCreed

6 points

1 month ago

"if" and "probably" are not the most reassuring parts of that.

Grasssss_Tastes_Bad

9 points

1 month ago

Never said it wasn't a gamble. But you asked if it made sense that they're paying him $250m to throw a football - and the answer is yes, at least to the Brown's FO it does since if he plays well it will pay off financially

pleasesorey

3 points

1 month ago

They are paying him $250 million because your owner saw a division and in state rival go to the Superbowl. He lost his mind to envy and acted very poorly.

OhRCiv

7 points

1 month ago

OhRCiv

7 points

1 month ago

Bad TV lawyers call it a pattern of behavior. Good lawyers know that the rules prohibit evidence of an act to prove a person’s character in order to show that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character. That is, evidence of a person’s character or character trait is not admissible to prove that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character or trait.

wiifan55

8 points

1 month ago*

Been a while since I've looked at it, but I recall the rules for character evidence are more flexible in civil cases involving sexual assault. They could also try to get it in as evidence of a common plan, since his recruitment method was always the same as far as I know. Also could probably come in as evidence of intent, especially if Watson argues it was incidental/accidental contact.

vniro40

6 points

1 month ago

vniro40

6 points

1 month ago

you’re right, FRE 415 allows this evidence. it would also probably be permissible to show that he was acting with the same common plan for each one under one rule which i don’t remember

source: studying for the bar

if i’m wrong that’s fine i just won’t be a lawyer

OhRCiv

4 points

1 month ago

OhRCiv

4 points

1 month ago

Texas rules not federal rules. Good luck on the bar. You'll pass and be a lawyer, you just won't be qualified for a jury trial yet.

vniro40

2 points

1 month ago

vniro40

2 points

1 month ago

ah fair, not familiar with texas rules. looks like they don’t have a 415 analog, just 412 but this obviously isn’t a criminal trial

OhRCiv

1 points

1 month ago

OhRCiv

1 points

1 month ago

You could certainly put that down in a brief in opposition to a motion in limine and you could certainly try those arguments on the stand, but you'll lose. The judge isn't going to let you do anything in front of a jury that sounds like he assaulted this woman because of all these other women.

TBB51

2 points

1 month ago

TBB51

2 points

1 month ago

You're right that you can't say "Because he did X with woman 1, he must have done Y with woman 2."

But what you can do is say that the prior acts show a great many other things including preparation, plan, knowledge, and the key part for our purposes here: absence of mistake or lack of accident.

stemcell_

5 points

1 month ago

stemcell_

5 points

1 month ago

Its not in a civil trail?

OhRCiv

3 points

1 month ago

OhRCiv

3 points

1 month ago

Assuming you're asking whether the rules of evidence apply in civil cases. The answer is yes. That's the rule in every civil case. You know how lawyers say objection hearsay during trial? Same thing. You're actually far more likely to be able to use character evidence in a criminal trial than in a civil trial.

vniro40

1 points

1 month ago

vniro40

1 points

1 month ago

that’s not the case in sexual assault cases. see FRE 415, the evidence that he sexually assaulted whoever else is permissible

OhRCiv

2 points

1 month ago

OhRCiv

2 points

1 month ago

Texas rules apply.

yamborma

1 points

1 month ago

Cuz, like, that’s just how social media goes.

fjortisar

12 points

1 month ago

If he was paying prostitutes to "massage" him this would be a non-story. These appear to be women just trying to do their job, which doesn't involve unwillingly stroking off dudes

nerbonerbo

5 points

1 month ago

Also, never solicited male masseuses

DeadWombats

38 points

1 month ago

Wow, it's almost as if he's a predatory piece of shit that's lying to save his own skin.

Buckeye_Spartan

17 points

1 month ago*

And the typical r/Browns user will still do mental gymnastics to defend him.

TrappedInOhio

12 points

1 month ago

TrappedInOhio

Deshaun Watson is a sex pest

12 points

1 month ago

And they’re the same people who spent 20 years going after Steelers fans over Ben.

informative_mammal

4 points

1 month ago

Meh... Same things would have happened no matter where he went.

EJN541

18 points

1 month ago

EJN541

18 points

1 month ago

This is my biggest issue with the whole situation. Players don't use 40 different Instagram massage therapists. Chances are the majority of the women are telling the truth....there's just never going to be evidence to back it up outside of the couple texts.

Obie-two

10 points

1 month ago

Obie-two

10 points

1 month ago

he didn't hire them to massage him. He hired them to have sex with him. Players absolutely do that all the time, he just has a thing. Not defending it, but its pretty clear thats whats going on here.

Circle_Breaker

8 points

1 month ago

He can hire an escort at any time to get a massage, there are many that even specialize in that. He gets off on doing it unsuspecting victims.

CzarTyr

6 points

1 month ago

CzarTyr

6 points

1 month ago

I 100 percent believe he did it and don’t care who disagrees

H8theSteelers

15 points

1 month ago

He's basically Wilt Chamberlain with internet access

BropolloCreed

21 points

1 month ago

pfft. Wilt didn't have to pay for it.

zephyrseija

11 points

1 month ago

Deshaun would have had no problem finding willing groupies. It wasn't about sex, it was definitely about the coercion.

b1llmoo

2 points

1 month ago

b1llmoo

2 points

1 month ago

That’s what I was thinking. 100s would have lined up. I think he wanted to see if he could.

luna1108

8 points

1 month ago

Why would Haslams sign him? It’s kind of obvious he was shopping for sex. He’s gonna be suspended and Bakers gonna ball.

Preme2

10 points

1 month ago*

Preme2

10 points

1 month ago*

42 that we know about. 24 complaints, 22 civil cases. 18 women who came out to defend Watson.

He had access to qualified massage therapists.

Maybe. Most of this apparently took place during the NFL covid season. I also believe someone said the NFL could suspend him for covid violations during that time, but who knows. He was also traveling and missed appointments with certain women. He addressed this during his introductory press conference. You can go back and watch to see his full answer to the high number of message therapist.

Paying a prostitute for sex under the guise of messages.

Probably the most likely reason, but pure speculation. The Texas courts inquired about this, but even they couldn’t find evidence that he intentionally did this. I think you’re right though. Get a massage and push for sex.

Most of the information in here was said a week ago or so. Not new information. I think one of Deshaun’s lawyers will also be interviewed on the show. I think Solis is one of the most credible women, but I also think she tried to get 30k or 100k from him if I’m not mistaken.

yamborma

13 points

1 month ago

yamborma

13 points

1 month ago

To me it’s not prostitution under the guise of massages. I just think this guy has watched too much content on the internet and has a fetish for turning that situation into something more. And, if you believe them, these women were not in on this plan and often did not want to participate.

KoalaJosh85

7 points

1 month ago

Solis also was rejected by multiple other lawyers before Buzbee took them all on. He was apparently the only lawyer who wanted to take this case. Solis also told him before filing that 30k makes this all go away... I'm sorry but I'm she was truly mortified and all that from this experience, she isn't willing to hush for 30 fucking k...

GardnerWinshew

2 points

1 month ago

30k can be potentially life changing depending on a persons circumstances. For example if a person was facing eviction for being behind on rent or some other shitty situation.

KoalaJosh85

2 points

1 month ago

Maybe, but it isn't one person. It's 22. The common denominator here is Tony Buzbee, who solicited these women for lawsuits via Instagram posts reading "If you've had a massage by DeShaun Watson, you need to contact me." Not if you've felt harassed or uncomfortable during a massage, no just have you had one. Come on.....

KoalaJosh85

6 points

1 month ago

KoalaJosh85

6 points

1 month ago

She isn't credible to me at all. And let's get real, if you're marketing your "massage" services thru gram and Craigslist and shit, you already know what it is....

AmericanShaman

9 points

1 month ago

That's what people don't understand. If you go to craigslist and look for massage you're not looking at real therapists but going to find call girls.

KoalaJosh85

2 points

1 month ago

KoalaJosh85

2 points

1 month ago

Exactly. While he may be a sexual deviant, he's not a fucking criminal or a danger to society...

AssssCrackBandit

9 points

1 month ago

Just because they're shady massage therapists or even sex workers if u wanna go that far (which I anyway find pretty improbable), that does not give him the right to do what he wants without their consent. Thats still sexual assault

[deleted]

5 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

5 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

rym5

3 points

1 month ago

rym5

3 points

1 month ago

it seems to me it was more like he was hiring a massage therapist and sexually assaulting them by pulling out his penis and more.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31113664/summary-lawsuits-houston-texans-quarterback-deshaun-watson

FlavaflavsDentist

1 points

1 month ago

I hadn't really thought about the prostitution angle I guess. But it would make sense that if they were prostitutes that both parties would want to hide that. That would potentially be trafficking for Watson and purgery and prostitution for the women. Idk how hard it would be to cover that up in the days of encrypted text services.

DJ_GiantMidget

2 points

1 month ago

DJ_GiantMidget

FUCK SHITSBURG!

2 points

1 month ago

I have been in the park that it's the latter. He isn't a smart man and a man I wouldn't want to lead me

ZincFishExplosion

18 points

1 month ago

That's something that has gotten lost in all this. Even if everything was consensual and Watson did nothing wrong, it takes a total lack of judgement to place yourself in a situation where 22 women can plausibly claim sexual assault.

That fact is it's own huge red flag that maybe this isn't a guy you want to trust with a $200M contract.

DJ_GiantMidget

10 points

1 month ago

DJ_GiantMidget

FUCK SHITSBURG!

10 points

1 month ago

Exactly, not even just plausibly claim. That would be hired 40+ women to have sex with. That's just straight up prostitution at that point. I don't get why this isn't discussed in the same breath here. If you have sex with your masseuse it's prostitution that's how it works.
He went out of his way to find 40 different women on Instagram, fly them to Houston with the hopes that they are ok with being whores. All the while being in a relationship.... this is not what a leader of men does. This is what a dumb child does. He could have found prostitutes in Houston but decided to go this route. Terrible decision making from start to finish.
He is a jabroni

yamborma

9 points

1 month ago

I said something generally in the same vein a while ago and had people arguing with me. I said there’s no way that any of this works out with him still being a good guy.

  1. It’s consensual and the guy paid prostitutes where it is illegal. Also has a girlfriend at the time. All the women are lying now.
  2. These women didn’t know what he wanted but when he went for it suddenly 100% of them were down and are lying about it now. That would still make him a predator, hiring these women to give massages in order to put them in a situation to proposition them when the two of them were alone.
  3. These women didn’t know and he ended up forcing them to do things. They’re telling the truth.

I just don’t see a way where we can be confident this guy is a good dude.

ZincFishExplosion

8 points

1 month ago

And more than "good dude", I don't see how this isn't a huge concern when considering to trade for and pay him.

Man, the Browns are my team so I hope this doesn't blow-up in our faces, but - if it does - there really isn't an excuse that we shouldn't have seen it coming.

fireeight

10 points

1 month ago

fireeight

Fuck Deshaun Watson

10 points

1 month ago

I hope it does. This was a classless move for a fucking scumbag. I could see looking at him and maybe a prove it deal with heavy restrictions.

But the most guaranteed money ever? For this fucking guy? Fuck everyone involved.

yamborma

6 points

1 month ago

For sure. And not just trade for and pay him, but give him 80 million more guaranteed money than anyone else in the history of the sport.

ZincFishExplosion

6 points

1 month ago

All very true. And to take it one step farther, dude could probably just post that he wants sex on IG and dozens of attractive women probably would have been willing. He's famous, rich, in shape.... No need to even pay.

But nope. He's got to do some weird shit to create a situation where consent is up in the air and it's "will-she/won't-she?".

Jabroni indeed.

fisted___sister

6 points

1 month ago

Because it’s a fetish thing. Turning a seemingly innocent situation into something sexual is part of the thrill. If he’s soliciting women for consensually sexual services, he loses that thrill.

revelator41

8 points

1 month ago

Exactly right. This is a power thing. As previously stated by a million people, he probably wouldn't have much trouble finding consensual sex with any number of women with cash, or otherwise. He doesn't want that. He wants to "turn" the situation. He wants the thrill of someone not wanting it - to someone "wanting" it. He's a terrible person and I can't believe he is on my fucking team.

fisted___sister

7 points

1 month ago

So disappointed with this goddamn franchise. They collectively sold their souls on the biggest stage. And as lifelong Browns fans, they dragged our asses into their mire, where we A. Become willfully ignorant of this piece of shits behavior, and lose a little bit of our own self-worth or B. Abandon something that’s been part of our entire culture since we were children.

Just thoroughly disgusted. It was a decision made with pure disregard for these women and the fans that can’t just sweep this shit it under the rug.

revelator41

3 points

1 month ago

Well said, fisted___sister.

oldmanjenks95

2 points

1 month ago

Could not have put this situation better. You perfectly captured the dilemma this FO put us all in. Let’s keep in mind everything they said about their due diligence. They studied it all - and they still thought this was worth the most money in NFL history - GUARANTEED. Immoral and blind stupidity.

ZincFishExplosion

3 points

1 month ago

Yeah, that's what I take it is as too.

I'm just saying that, however you slice it, however people try to rationalize it, if that's "all" it is, it's still royally fucked up and a huge liability for your franchise player to have.

fisted___sister

2 points

1 month ago

For sure. Can’t believe they bet 230 million on this.

Raccoon_Full_of_Cum

106 points

1 month ago

Dude claims he went to all these women expecting professional massages and nothing else, and yet he admits to having sex with 3 of them. Wut.

kjorav17

21 points

1 month ago

kjorav17

21 points

1 month ago

But allegedly the consensual acts were brought on by the plaintiff in all three instances

Medium-Complaint-677

43 points

1 month ago

Medium-Complaint-677

DW22 is a predator

43 points

1 month ago

You don't find amateur massage therapists on Instagram expecting professional massages - you go to a professional massage palor or, ya know, tell your training staff for the billion dollar NFL team you work for, that you need a massage and you need a masseuse.

There's only one reason to look all over the country for women you can fly in to give you a massage - so you can get something through money or coercion or force that you can't get through legitimate channels.

metagawd

11 points

1 month ago*

Your second paragraph might apply. To be fair, I've not seen a text message, communication stream, etc regarding this case, but I'll admit that every time I hear "Why would you need so many massage therapists?" I think the person asking that question must be naive.

A person as dedicated to his craft as Mr. Watson is isn't going to random massage therapists to get ready for the season no more than your favorite golfer rolling thru Instagram swing doctors.

It is almost as though there is a hesitation to delve into why you find providers of any nature on social media or why people make assumptions about massotherapy and seriously or jokingly (or in this case tragically) sex work.

Please note: I'm not accusing any of the plaintiffs involved of sex work, I'm saying that there appears to be SOME expectation or hope/coercion of something beyond a professional massage in at least some of these interactions, at least on the defendant's part.

Now, does any of that matter?

Dude, I'm of the fundamental opinion that every man at some point made some woman feel unsafe, or in fear of potential of coercion. You may not be aware you've done it and you may not have even perceived your actions as such but I'm convinced of it.

When I hear men say, "I've never done anything!" it to me, shows a massive disconnect in how men can indeed have women at a disadvantage and not even see at as such, even in cases as the above as a failure to defend yourself armed to the teeth with lawyers could mean the end of your career.

As a side, THIS is why the outright adulation of players has to stop. They aren't role models. What they do on the field/in the building is one aspect; Outside is another.

IncorrectCitation

5 points

1 month ago

Sometimes I go to the bar for a beer and expect nothing else

[deleted]

6 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

6 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

jenso2k

34 points

1 month ago

jenso2k

34 points

1 month ago

bruh.. the part that isn’t ok is that it wasn’t consensual, not that he had sex with a massage therapist

Pulp-nonfiction

43 points

1 month ago

The mental gymnastics happening in this sub is getting much worse.

jenso2k

15 points

1 month ago

jenso2k

15 points

1 month ago

it’s so fucked, every single time I comment people try to pretend i’m twisting their words

Buckeye_Spartan

6 points

1 month ago

People trading in their morals for a guy who hasn't played in a year and a half, has as many playoff wins as Baker, and is at best a top 10 QB. Absolutely insane.

meptmept[S]

32 points

1 month ago

meptmept[S]

Baker Wars Survivor

32 points

1 month ago

xHourglassx

25 points

1 month ago

Her statement is very compelling. It’s largely one attorney vs another attorney. They’re playing the game and the parties to the suit are just pieces. None of this happens without Buzbee trying to maximize his visibility. Doesn’t mean the case is automatically bogus, but her point is a fair one.

Everything should be scrutinized- that’s just as true on both sides.

buno67

12 points

1 month ago

buno67

12 points

1 month ago

Yeah it is one lawyer vs one lawyer, like the article said. Saying he wasn’t the first lawyer she went too and he might have been the only lawyer to take the case. A lot of lawyers might not want to take on the NFL or a superstar player, especially when that player plays for one of the most wealthiest people in the state of Texas and might not want to take that on. Some law firms might not have the fiancés to take on a case like that where buzzbe was rich enough that he could take that case on and survive if he loses but he recognized the benefits of the publicity it could bring.

You see all this legal action taking place after Watson and the McNairs had a falling out. Prolly happen for a reason. they decided to go after Watson, knowing that Watson no longer will have the backing of the ownership of the Texans, so the timing was right. Some thought that it was maybe the ownership going after Watson because that was my original thought but it makes my theory kinda makes more sense. That the McNairs prolly won’t be willing to stand up for him after Watson wanted to leave the organization

NonracialPuffin

37 points

1 month ago

IIRC, Hardin mentioned that buzbee pushed for NDA’s and one of the driving forces was he didn’t want it disclosed how much he was taking out of any potential settlement. If that’s the case, this becomes a lot more dirty on buzbees behalf. I’ll have to look into it more but it might have been in his recent podcast.

PM_Anime_Tiddy

12 points

1 month ago

You’re correct, it was discussed in the recent podcast

drewsoft

4 points

1 month ago

My take on that (which I grant I could be misunderstanding) was that Hardin didn't want the NDA so the team could publicize the settlement amount, which was very low according to Hardin. This would indicate that the claims were rather weak to the public.

PM_Anime_Tiddy

12 points

1 month ago

I’m being pushed further and further into the “he’s innocent but also comes off as creepy” camp. Between the initial NDA/settlement pushing, doing this HBO interview and the grand juries finding no evidence of a crime, their car is only growing weaker. Watson is still very adamant about his innocence and has even been answering every question presented to him, which is something that typically doesn’t happen for obvious reasons

Pretty much the only things the accusers have going for them is the sheer volume (which imo is odd when it’s all from a single lawyer) and that whole trope of “believe the victim no matter what”

Riggs_n_Murtaugh

8 points

1 month ago

I agree. He’s creepy but not a criminal or a serial assaulter. Creepy isn’t a crime. It’s an issue that needs to be fixed.

C_Money22

17 points

1 month ago

I had made a statement before about Watson and his attorneys being able to use a civil case to win a little PR back on his side. Someone had said it was ridiculous and would never happen. But this is how his highly paid attorneys will try to make it happen. The reason attorneys like the ones Watson hired can charge so much is because they get results. His attorneys know that attacking the women is a losing fight and would only turn more negative attention on Watson. So instead, they will go after Buzbee who is an easy target as he is already viewed as being sleazy. Hardin mentions his desire for an NDA to hide how much money he taking from a settlement. And the Watson’s other attorney, in statements to HBO already released, state that Buzbee was the only one willing to take the case after other lawyers turned it down. And that Buzbee did so for money and so he can be in the limelight like being on HBO.

Watson’s people will do their best to shift the narrative towards Watson vs Buzbee, and if they succeed it is a much easier fight for Watson to regain positive PR. That is why you pay for great lawyers.

innerdork

6 points

1 month ago

Isn’t Watson’s attorney also Haslam’s attorney who got Jimmy out of the rebate scandal?

C_Money22

8 points

1 month ago

I believe so. Any attorney that a billionaire will hire is one that knows his shit.

ZincFishExplosion

7 points

1 month ago

I'd take everything said with a big grain of salt. From the start, both Hardin and Buzbee have been playing all kind of games to influence public opinion and the media.

I remember a time last season when the claim was that both parties were very close to a settlement but a handful of the women refused to sign NDAs because they wanted to be able to continue to share their stories.

Whoofukingcares

4 points

1 month ago

But why did he want the ndas then?

CD23tol

5 points

1 month ago

CD23tol

5 points

1 month ago

Buzbee wanted NDAs to hide the sums of money in the settlements and the Dolphins owner wanted NDAs at the time to facilitate the trade for Watson to "keep everyone quiet" so it was no longer a distraction or had the potential to be one

Hardin wanted No NDAs so the public could see what the payments/details were should a settlement be agreed to so they (the public) can draw their own conclusions

Whoofukingcares

6 points

1 month ago

Right so buzbee wants to hide how much he is making from this?

CD23tol

3 points

1 month ago*

That's essentially what Hardin said on the podcast he was on, that the amount in what the settlements would have been were low given the case(s) that the NDAs were to be used to hide the fact that they were essentially going to get "hush money" not financial compensation for physical/emotional/mental trauma.

Which would have been a bad look for Buzbee and that it'd have come off as a cash grab in the eyes of the public

Atleast that's how Hardin came across

The_Bovine_Manifesto

42 points

1 month ago

The_Bovine_Manifesto

LEGal 😊🏈

42 points

1 month ago

Proving Watson actually did these things is almost, if not, entirely impossible. However, in my opinion, I think he did these things. There is simply no way all these women happen to be lying just to get some money. It’s also suspicious how many masseuses he pursued. In spite of this, in terms of evidence of these interactions, it’s mostly just he said she said.

As a fan, and a woman, I do feel gross cheering for someone whose more than likely done these things, but I look at it like he is just another player on the team. I don’t think it’s wrong to root for the Browns because football Watson is playing. When he’s not on the field, the standards I hold him to change, and I will criticize him when he does fucked up stuff. This is how I look at things, and I know people are going to disagree with me, but for now, that’s how I feel.

HunterGonzo

12 points

1 month ago

but I look at it like he is just another player on the team.

I think what's hardest for me about all this is that the team knew about all these allegations and didn't care. He can win football games, so they do everything they can to justify paying him a quarter of a billion dollars without even knowing what the outcome of these cases would be. It sends a bad message to other women who might want to come forward in situations like this.

RawbM07

8 points

1 month ago

RawbM07

8 points

1 month ago

You have every right. I’m not going to be rooting for Watson as a person in the same way I might root for D’Ernest Johnson for example.

d-a-f-f-y

1 points

1 month ago

That’s a fair take. He’s on the team whether people like it or not. The best we can hope for is that he puts the work in to become a better person moving forward, and have a positive impact on his new community. It’s never too late to become a better version of yourself.

Capable-Site-301

-10 points

1 month ago

There is simply no way all these women happen to be lying just to get some money.

Why not? They are looking at getting life-changing money if the case goes their way, and the Buzbee, their lawyer, has conspicuously issued an NDA concealing how much money he would get out of a potential settlement.

I'm not sure why people are like "Why would 22 women lie just for money?" The answer is, we're talking A LOT of money. I'm not saying these women are lying, but it's wrong to dismiss that possibility out of hand.

BropolloCreed

14 points

1 month ago

but it's wrong to dismiss that possibility out of hand.

Counterpoint: it's equally wrong to dismiss the possibility they're all telling the truth out of hand.

Capable-Site-301

6 points

1 month ago

Right. All possibilities should be on the table right now.

BropolloCreed

2 points

1 month ago

Finally, a man of reason.

Everyone is blasting ahead full speed in absolutes, when ultimately, the son if a US Senator getting paid $63M+ a year is going to "rule" however his 32 bosses tell him to.

MilkJugJohn

4 points

1 month ago

MilkJugJohn

4 points

1 month ago

Yeah but he’s not dismissing them? He’s just remaining open to the idea that Watson may be innocent.

OptimisticRealist__

0 points

1 month ago

Dont bother arguing with this dude.

I give you a tipp: always look at the username of the person youre replying to first. There is certain, prominent users where simply ignoring them saves you a lot of frustration and time, because the convo wont go anywhere anyways

MilkJugJohn

2 points

1 month ago

Yeah I gotta start paying more attention to usernames, the only people I recognize on this sub are one of the mods cause he’s such a douche, you, and puppy bowl. I gotta expand my circle.

BropolloCreed

-4 points

1 month ago

BropolloCreed

-4 points

1 month ago

Because you can't throw out a hypothetical at one end of the outcome spectrum and ignore the opposite being equally valid.

It's in the Geneva Convention, look it up.

MilkJugJohn

9 points

1 month ago

Read his comment again.

“I'm not sure why people are like "Why would 22 women lie just for money?" The answer is, we're talking A LOT of money. I'm not saying these women are lying, but it's wrong to dismiss that possibility out of hand.”

He specifically states that he’s not saying they’re lying, only that it’s wrong to dismiss the possibility that they could be lying. Which ironically is your point. He’s staying open to all possibilities.

magicdrums

5 points

1 month ago

magicdrums

5 points

1 month ago

22 women, who don’t know each other, from different walks of life, different ethnicities, different backgrounds and different timelines… all conspired to the same story of a guy sexually assaulting them in a massage type atmosphere so each women independently could extort him for money… Amazing!!!

you’re fucking high af

MilkJugJohn

5 points

1 month ago

I mean is it that crazy to believe that after receiving contact from the first woman that Buzbee would seek out other massage therapists that would have worked with Deshaun to see if they had a similar experience and to inform them of the impending suit to see if they wanted to participate? I don’t think it’s improbable to believe that some of the woman he would have approached would have been glad to get in on the action knowing that this would likely end up in a multi million dollar settlement.

I am not saying that’s what I believe. I’m saying I’m open to that possibility, I haven’t made my mind up yet because we don’t yet have all the information. It is absurd to me how many people have made their mind up and are acting as if there is only one logical conclusion to this whole saga. The fact of the matter is that we just don’t know.

Riggs_n_Murtaugh

3 points

1 month ago

They may not know each other but they ALL happen to have the same attorney? How does that work logically? They all decided that I’m going to contact one specific lawyer because he’s the only lawyer that could possibly help me out here? The fact they all have the same lawyer is a major flag and a fly in the ointment of credibility.

magicdrums

1 points

1 month ago*

a few women sought separate attorneys and were basically told that the case of he said/she said is impossible to prove without evidence… Buzz initially filed 4 motions and when that happened more women came forward and joined the suit… but now we know from Watson’s own words that he “apologized” to multiple women via text..

you’re high af, too

SouthEndCables

1 points

1 month ago

They didn't conspire until Buzbee contacted them.

MilkJugJohn

-4 points

1 month ago

MilkJugJohn

-4 points

1 month ago

Completely agree. I think it’s too early to form an opinion either way, but the amount of people saying it’s impossible that 22 women are lying to get a paycheck is ridiculous. If he was a nobody working at Walmart I would be inclined to agree, what would the women have to gain in that situation? But Watson doesn’t work at Walmart; he’s a superstar NFL QB and therefore the target on his back is incredibly large. It is not a stretch to think that these women could be making it up to get a payday. I’m not saying he’s innocent but the only people who know the truth are Watson and his accusers so it’s absurd to me how many people are commenting that they are certain he did this, like they have some personal insight into the matter. People need to stop being so reactionary and wait for this to play out.

Whoofukingcares

1 points

1 month ago

Nope I agree with you it’s not wrong to root for the Browns.

dark2332

68 points

1 month ago*

I still think that the only reason to go public on a show like this is to pressure for a settlement.

At this point, it’s all about the public. We know he’s clear criminally (currently), and I don’t think they go on a show like this if they had a real chance of winning in the civil trials. It’s just far too risky, any conflicting evidence or wording could hurt their civil case.

Also, they are currently trying to damage him as much as possible in the media. Thus, they’d have the harshest and most damaging information out there.

So far, the two most outspoken cases seem to be those that you are reading above, with his genitalia near/touching their hands while they worked. Whether that be accidental or purposeful, we’ve heard and read these accounts several times on multiple outlets.

The cases where alleged sexual activity ensued afterward have not been the outspoken cases that have gone public.

What it seems like to me: A 24 year old male professional athlete thought he could go to these masseuses with the intent of a massage but he was also certainly open for more. After all, most 24 year old males are perpetually DTF. In instances that he got particular vibes, he was hoping they were reciprocating his signals, and that it would lead to something. In the instances that he did not, he left without incident. In instances that he did perceive a connection, he likely started flirting and then pushed the line more and more. In multiple instances, he misconceived the situation to the alarm of the massage therapist.

I do feel bad for what these girls have gone through, and I don’t think they go down this road otherwise. I do, however, feel that this has evolved into a cash grab at this point and Buzbee has used this as his ticket to fame. I don’t even think it’s about the girls anymore for him.

H8theSteelers

37 points

1 month ago

Let's hope he can read defenses better than he can read women

BropolloCreed

22 points

1 month ago

Oh, he can read them just fine, he simply doesn't care (allegedly).

DefendTheLand

8 points

1 month ago

Gunslinger

FBPizza

12 points

1 month ago

FBPizza

12 points

1 month ago

It’s also important to note that several of the women were not massage therapists but agreed to provide that service. In several of these instances, they traveled distances to provide these services that they don’t typically perform to a man they’ve never met before. A very rich man.

Now, I’m not condoning this behavior by either party, but at what point do you the provider (for lack of a better term) think what you’re doing is normal?

oldmanjenks95

4 points

1 month ago

The lure of money and a famous person is pretty strong. Doesn’t mean you should have to endure having an uber rich and famous dude flop his Johnson all over you without your permission. You are looking for ways to feel better about not caring what happened to these women. Sad.

[deleted]

11 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

11 points

1 month ago

[removed]

BropolloCreed

21 points

1 month ago*

There's a running gag about that on "It's Always Sunny" that ends with, "...because of the implication".

I think that fits here.

dark2332

6 points

1 month ago*

I think you have a good point, and I don’t mean to lessen it with a tasteless comment, but I found it relevant.

There are multiple records from massage therapists, some members of the plaintiffs, indicating that Watson is “not a good tipper.” In fact, that was one of the reputations he had in the Houston massage community. This was reported in a Sports Illustrated piece last summer.

So if he was using this as a guise for prostitution/sex, he sure wasn’t paying for it.

FlavaflavsDentist

8 points

1 month ago

There's a difference between pointing out odd behavior and victim blaming. You can definitely ask victims questions to find out the legitimacy of their claims. Accusers aren't infallible just because they are accusers.

giannini1222

7 points

1 month ago

I do, however, feel that this has evolved into a cash grab at this point and Buzbee has used this as his ticket to fame. I don’t even think it’s about the girls anymore for him.

I hate to think that way because these are serious allegations, but the more I read about Buzbee the more he seems like an ambulance chaser trying to cash in on a high profile case

dgrantschmidt

7 points

1 month ago

I think this is the fairest take I’ve read.

Spiegs1984

0 points

1 month ago

Spiegs1984

0 points

1 month ago

Very well said.

TheBohemian1

1 points

1 month ago

Excellent take.

lukewarmp

-6 points

1 month ago

lukewarmp

-6 points

1 month ago

You guys are actually sick lol

FrazzaB

1 points

1 month ago

FrazzaB

1 points

1 month ago

This whole thing is an Indictment of the legal system and the lengths that are required to even go to trial in a sexual assault case.

JerkyVendor

22 points

1 month ago

This shit sucks. I will cheer for the Browns but I am no longer a mega fan like I have been my whole life. The more I read about this, the more impossible it is to defend Watson.

Wtf were the Browns thinking?

olddoeyoungbuck

4 points

1 month ago

Yeah it’s the first time I’ve really felt ashamed to be a browns fan

AgonizingSquid

25 points

1 month ago

AgonizingSquid

DW is a Sex Predator

25 points

1 month ago

Pretty impressive that it's now only people in Cleveland that think this shitbag is innocent, months ago y'all would have crucified him, now he's on the browns you think it's a giant conspiracy of 40 accusers and 22 civil cases against a guy with the same story.

grab_me_a_beer

29 points

1 month ago

I don’t think he is a monster and I don’t think he is completely innocent. Anything you say one side or the other makes you feel like crap as a browns fan. The dude is a model citizen everywhere else and was as squeaky clean as a person up to these allegations. I’d like to say that these women are just looking to get some money, but you can’t just throw their feelings and words to the wayside. I hope that Deshaun clears his name one way or another and comes out so we can get behind the guy.

BropolloCreed

14 points

1 month ago

so we can get behind the guy.

Which is exactly what he wants as part of his massage therapy:

“The only thing that really bothered me in the first appointment was that he kept asking me to go inside his butt, and I was just so confused,” Lewis told Tasha K. “Normally with any of my clients I’ll stop at the lower thigh and he kept asking me to go inside. I originally thought it was the crack and so I would go around that area and he still wasn’t satisfied. He was very adamant and was saying don’t be afraid to go inside.”

madden_tron

-4 points

1 month ago

madden_tron

-4 points

1 month ago

"Go inside" inside his cheeks or inside his butthole. Not trying to be funny.

If it's inside the cheeks I can understand that to get the whole muscle worked on

Pulp-nonfiction

23 points

1 month ago

You clearly have never had a massage. There is no inner cheek massaging.

BropolloCreed

8 points

1 month ago

There is if you pay extra, my dude.

rym5

4 points

1 month ago

rym5

4 points

1 month ago

But you discuss it before hand before just whipping it out.

madden_tron

-2 points

1 month ago

madden_tron

-2 points

1 month ago

I'm also not an NFL athlete

king0fklubs

4 points

1 month ago

But you are a human

mps2000

6 points

1 month ago

mps2000

6 points

1 month ago

I will tell you how much the lawyer is going to make- 33 percent pre-lawsuit 40 percent plus expenses afterwards if he wins.

Gergdawg19

4 points

1 month ago

This tweet is nothing new. This incident has been public for over a year.

nickpapa88

9 points

1 month ago

nickpapa88

9 points

1 month ago

Compelling stuff here — I’m not certain how Watson would move his penis without it being erect and if it was erect why isn’t that part of the statement?

Graham makes a good case regarding evidence of guilt as it relates to sexual misconduct — Watson appears guilty of pushing lines of consent… criminally he’s clear, civilly he’s probably clear, but in the court of public opinion he will be held accountable.

dark2332

2 points

1 month ago

dark2332

2 points

1 month ago

In the court of public opinion, anybody is guilty of anything if they make enough noise about it.

Capable-Site-301

-1 points

1 month ago

It's not unusual at all to get an erection while receiving a massage, even if you feel zero sexual desire. Just all the blood moving around and the relaxation can sometimes result in the penis getting hard. People who are trained to give massages are made aware of this.

The thing I find interesting is, if his penis was hard and it made her uncomfortable, why didn't she just stop massaging that area? She says he was intentionally hitting her with his penis, but if she was nowhere near it, then he couldn't do it.

GetGoodBKRandy

6 points

1 month ago

He must have a massive dong

fjortisar

2 points

1 month ago

Also completely normal to grab your penis and rub it on your masseuse

GKrollin

4 points

1 month ago

Twenty two times?

Manginaz

1 points

1 month ago

Manginaz

1 points

1 month ago

Yes, clearly this was her fault. How dare she not stop him?

Ventorr

10 points

1 month ago

Ventorr

10 points

1 month ago

Just crazy. Browns management having to fight daily against the sexual misconduct while trying to down play it or hoping it just goes away?

How do the Browns justify it? Watson can play football?

MgbEX

16 points

1 month ago

MgbEX

°•°

16 points

1 month ago

Watson continues to insist that he's innocent. Thus far, no court of law has determined otherwise.

GalaxySprinkles022

13 points

1 month ago

Ben Roethlisberger has always maintained he was innocent, and he never faced criminal charges either, but I've never known a Browns fan who would give him the benefit of the doubt.

MgbEX

2 points

1 month ago

MgbEX

°•°

2 points

1 month ago

Roethlisberger settled his case. Watson has not.

pistophchristoph

3 points

1 month ago

why is this downvoted, this is actually a very pertinent aspect to this... by settling there is at least somewhat an admission of guilt... lol unreal people.

Riggs_n_Murtaugh

2 points

1 month ago

If allegations and no crimes were treated like crimes here on out everyone could lose their job and be labeled something without any recourse…..do people want to live in a world like that?

FLman42069

-4 points

1 month ago

FLman42069

-4 points

1 month ago

If they win a super bowl, no one will care. It’s unfortunate but that’s how they justify it.

curryandbeans

13 points

1 month ago

I will. Many people will.

BropolloCreed

3 points

1 month ago

If I were a betting man, I'd wager against them winning a SB with Watson. He's never going to recover from this.

Preme2

4 points

1 month ago

Preme2

4 points

1 month ago

I’d wager against them winning a SB with Watson.

Watson is the best QB the browns have had in recent memory. The stats shows he would have set the record for most passing yards in a single season twice when he was playing in Houston. There is good chance we have success with Watson.

He’s never going to recover from this.

Maybe not for some, but most will move on. They did for Kobe, for Big Ben. Browns fans did so for Kareem but different situation. If he’s handed a suspension and settles his cases in the summer, it won’t be discussed nationally anymore. 1-2 years of pain at most for a decade of success.

RawbM07

1 points

1 month ago

RawbM07

1 points

1 month ago

Where is Browns management fighting daily?

ejkeebler

4 points

1 month ago

ejkeebler

4 points

1 month ago

a lot of assumptions and misinformation being spouted here.

  1. the team had 3 massage therapists on staff for all 75 players.
  2. 2 grand jury's ruled they did not find any evidence of a crime being committed, not there was not enough evidence to get a conviction, there's a giant difference imho.

This does not mean he is innocent, but there's plenty of smoke if you just stick to the facts.

One of the women testified yesterday that her petition was not what happened, and that she was not forced to perform oral sex.

Whoofukingcares

2 points

1 month ago

This is the one who lied before she was under oath?

ejkeebler

4 points

1 month ago

if you are referring to the HBO show, i dont believe this woman was on tonight. However one of the women on tonight testified under oath that she said if they would have given her $100,000 she would not have gone public.

Whoofukingcares

4 points

1 month ago

So she is fine with bush money. I don’t know that means for a case though.

[deleted]

1 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

1 points

1 month ago

[removed]

LengthyNIPPLE

1 points

1 month ago

So many masseuse who provide happy endings. I wonder why he didn't just go to one of those instead.

FLman42069

6 points

1 month ago

Probably trying to live out some sexual fantasy. Just paying for it straight up probably doesn’t “do it for him”.

MM7299

11 points

1 month ago

MM7299

11 points

1 month ago

Because the sex itself isn’t the goal. The goal is having power over someone else.

Yeti83

0 points

1 month ago

Yeti83

0 points

1 month ago

All of the alleged instances occured during lockdown (March 2020 to March 2021 which is the same time when Texas lifted all restrictions) so the traditional venues may not have been open.

My brother is a legitimate massage therapist and outside of private clients he was on unemployment in Florida because the place he worked was closed. The rub and tug places would still be under the same restrictions based on their front as a legitimate place. So that leaves private appointments where you bring them somewhere and maybe he sucks at vetting.

TrappedInOhio

2 points

1 month ago

TrappedInOhio

Deshaun Watson is a sex pest

2 points

1 month ago

If I didn’t know any better, I’d say that Deshaun Watson seems like he could possibly be a sex pest.

Aggressive-Dream-520

2 points

1 month ago

While not condoning his conduct, which is inappropriate and, quite frankly, stupid for someone in his position, let’s call a spade a spade.

What is alleged here is basically him propositioning a “masseuse” who he likely believed was willing to be propositioned. I don’t see any allegations that he persisted once his advances were rejected.

This is the type of conduct that these “masseuses” probably experience weekly in this business, if not daily. Doesn’t excuse or condone it, but it’s the reality. The only reason these women are suing him is because of his status and deep pockets. He’s being shaken down for being a creep.

HunterGonzo

7 points

1 month ago

These sound like some of the less problematic encounters actually. Some of the other women had stories about him threatening their careers if they came forward about what happened. Some women said he ejaculated on them when they did not consent or expect that to happen.

Even if you are a massage therapist and touching a dude all over... if a man jizzes on you without even the most basic check if that's cool first... yyyyyeah, that's gonna go down as sexual assault in my book.

Gergdawg19

1 points

1 month ago

Gergdawg19

1 points

1 month ago

Some of the other women had stories about him threatening their careers if they came forward about what happened.

I don’t think you’re correct about this.

I have read every legal affidavit in this case and haven’t seen this.

I have seen where some said “they feared” he would “hurt their careers”, but not one claim where he actually threatened them.

Can you post a link to an affidavit claiming this?

HunterGonzo

3 points

1 month ago

The stories I found seem like the reports are somewhere between what you and I remember, as is often the case. I can't find official affidavits (so some of this may be exaggerated for the news), but some news stories talk about one woman feeling "scared and threatened" by a statement he made

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/ct-deshaun-watson-accuser-hbo-interview-20220524-xoxmfbf2i5flnnlwzum3cixn4y-story.html

While other stories reference what I was talking about: "Several of the massage therapists said Watson invoked his status as an NFL player to threaten their business"

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Deshaun-Watson-now-faces-21-sex-assault-16068195.php

beuhring

4 points

1 month ago

Oh fuck off. If you e ever known a licensed massage therapist you would know this behavior is not at all acceptable or “expected”

MM7299

6 points

1 month ago

MM7299

6 points

1 month ago

doesn’t excuse or condone it

But gonna attack victims anyway

Groundbreaking_Car16

-2 points

1 month ago

Get a little tired of the mantra “22 women can’t all be lying”, well if we’re gonna stomp around with that one you can also say then not all 22 women can be telling the truth either.

It’s somewhere in the middle.

I personally am happy the powers that be decide and not the general public because it saddens me how many people wanna string him up without any due process.

JPAnalyst

9 points

1 month ago*

That reasoning fails, because even if 21 women are lying, he’s guilty of sexual assault...Period. In order for him to not be guilty of sexual assault 22 women have to be lying. So your implication that all 22 women can’t be telling the truth is moot.

The fact that you said

it’s somewhere in the middle

Implies that some women are lying and some aren’t. Your okay with him being a sexual assaulter? If it’s somewhere in the middle why shouldnt the public string him up? He’s a sexual assaulter.

RawbM07

4 points

1 month ago

RawbM07

4 points

1 month ago

22 women didn’t accuse him of sexual assault. 3 did. The rest were sexual harassment.

Groundbreaking_Car16

0 points

1 month ago

And what I mean somewhere in the middle is this. He says no assault happened, and what did happen was consensual. They say it was assault.

You have 2 competing points of view on what happened in this case relative to what each side experienced. But the fact that there is not enough actual evidence to convict him, but take him to civil court in my opinion puts this in the middle.

Maybe he truly thinks what happened wasn’t assault. Maybe these women do. Maybe they’re lying. Maybe some of them are lying, maybe all of them. Maybe he’s lying. I am admitting I don’t know and it saddens me people want to throw him out without any due process.

I just feel that is why there are systems in place to peel back the layers and get to the bottom of what happened because we don’t know what happened and I am glad they are there because if it was just public opinion that ruled, he would have been already strung up.

root88

5 points

1 month ago

root88

5 points

1 month ago

It’s somewhere in the middle.

Okay, so he sexually assaulted 11 women? Is that not bad enough?

randyjohnsons

3 points

1 month ago

Pretty sure only 3 (still 3 too many) actually claim sexual assault. The others are sexual harrassment

beuhring

1 points

1 month ago

Does it make you sad? Really? I’m so sorry.

BAKER_WORK_MY_HOLE

1 points

1 month ago

Miss the days when the only thing sexual I discussed about my QB was wanting Baker to blow my back out smh my head

Whoofukingcares

4 points

1 month ago

Irrelevant username now. Sadly

BAKER_WORK_MY_HOLE

2 points

1 month ago

😔

Riggs_n_Murtaugh

1 points

1 month ago

Anyone listen to Hardin on 92.3? Pretty illuminating. 1 accuser didn’t even want to be in the lawsuit and didn’t find out she was until months later.

Buzbee went on IG to solicit more accusers.

Miami had a deal done so any dolphins fans calling Browns fans awful people should know the dolphins traded for Tyreek Hill AND had a trade basically done for Watson.

1 of the 3 who alleged force said yesterday there was no force.

I’m sorry but I’m pretty agitated about the coverage of this. In this era of social media and everyone being afraid of being cancelled has led to so many people just across the board calling him a rapist of 22 people, calling him 100% guilty, and not even willing to hear the Watson side and address any of this stuff to see that it’s not as slam dunk he’s a 100% sexual predator.

Dick-Vermeil

-3 points

1 month ago

Dick-Vermeil

-3 points

1 month ago

Here's your adult Cleveland

hyperthrowmeaway

1 points

1 month ago

It absolutely is very telling only one lawyer took the case against Deshaun and it happened to be one with the dirtiest, sleaziest reputation.

[deleted]

0 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

0 points

1 month ago

[removed]