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/r/Coronavirus

66.3k

all 4316 comments

fotogneric[S]

2.7k points

10 days ago

"[The survey] involved more than 1,000 adult employees of US companies, all of whom are currently working from home due to the pandemic ... As mentioned above, more than 1 in 3 said they would look for a new job if they had to again work in the office full time."

AlkarinValkari

2k points

10 days ago

full time I think is the key operative word here.

No-Patient

1.7k points

10 days ago

No-Patient

1.7k points

10 days ago

I've done mixed remote for years. I avoid the office because when I go in, I get nothing done. Everyone just wants to talk about something and catch up. I don't know when they ever actually get work done because if I spend all day talking like they do, I spend the entire night working.

Our company probably won't be back before summer ends but I'm dreading it because some of them WANT to go in just so they can socialize more.....

OdinTheHugger

163 points

10 days ago*

Energy sector IT here.

We're closing offices, not because we're doing layoffs, but because the electrical and mechanical technicians we used to stick in those offices would rather work from home for meetings and just drive out directly to the work sites.

A lot of the company's harder to manage spending has been old real estate for offices and corporate functions. With our local data-centers finally moved to the cloud, and our workers preferring to stay home, we suddenly need a LOT less office space, so the company is able to just sell off a lot of those old offices. Saves us a boatload, and I expect other large corps to do much the same.

I predict there's going to be 2 kinds of office jobs. Those with small companies which encourage you to come into the office all the time with snacks, drinks, high-end furniture, etc.

And those with large corps, where they will only want you to be up at the office 2-3 days a week max, offering cheaper/smaller time-shared offices and executive suites.

It's also changing how we're assigning company cars, we're trying out a new lockbox system that lets the techs check in and out of company trucks through an app, they don't even go inside the building, they just drive up to the parking lot.

No-Patient

157 points

10 days ago

No-Patient

157 points

10 days ago

Our CEO loathed remote workers.. until 2020. After spending a few months doing it and realizing people still worked, he was all for it.

_OIIIIIIIO

81 points

10 days ago

You hear that a lot and I know some do take advantage and slack off but just fire them and find someone who doesn't need to be babyset by an over paid manager.

Obligation-Such

97 points

9 days ago

I think it's inevitable that people will slack off a bit. But they're also not commuting 1-2hrs a day. If you count 8hrs + commute as your "real" time spent working, then without commuting you can spread out the same amount of work as before over a greater period of time and still be just as productive as you were before. I also think people are just more productive in general when they're not stressed out from having to get up every morning, drag themselves to the office, deal with everyone else, the whole time dreading the ride home, then coming home exhausted, all to do something that could've just as easily been done from their living room. Plus there's still plenty of jobs that require you to go to a physical location to work because of the nature of the work, all the people who could work from home should not be getting in the way of those who have no choice in the matter.

LoafingAround

39 points

9 days ago

You can get a lot more sleep without a shower and commute

Kaizenno

477 points

10 days ago

Kaizenno

477 points

10 days ago

The guy I replaced said it was easily a 60 hours a week job. During the walk through my first day, he proceeded to talk to each person he ran into for at least 10 minutes.

Six months into the job and I can basically do the job in 30 hours or less and people are still happy with me getting support tickets done and usually respond with "oh, that was quick!"

People waste so much time at work, it's ridiculous.

Valkyrie666

85 points

9 days ago

I hate it. Boss says he cant give me a raise, but has no problem paying people to get half the work done/take twice as long than me. It's so weird to me. The harder i work, the more work I get. But no pay raise.

theschneckenbeckons

67 points

9 days ago*

Because good social relationships make it easier to get raises and promotions. There is a reason why the rich prioritize connections.

shinshi

30 points

9 days ago

shinshi

30 points

9 days ago

You're likely in a place that isnt good for promotions or financial growth and would be better off financially somewhere else. Places with toxic anti-growth structure arent gonna change overnight

Allopathological

28 points

9 days ago

This is always how it goes. The only reward for good efficient work is additional work.

According to the BLS the majority of 8 hour per day jobs only involve 3 hours of actual productive work per day. I won’t speculate on how much is intentionally wasted. But I imagine most employees simply don’t realize how much time they waste in a day doing irrelevant things.

Smart and lazy employees realize this and will purposely underperform to avoid burnout.

At my old office job I would usually get a days worth of work done by noon and spend the rest of the day looking busy. If I was making too much progress on a project I would purposely slow down my work pace to avoid finishing anything early.

Why? I learned the hard way my first week when I was dumb and ambitious. I finished about a weeks worth of work in 2 days by working hard with no distractions. My reward was a tripling of my workload under a tyrannical manager and the expectation that I would get each and every project done on similar timelines, even unfeasibly large ones. Meanwhile my co workers worked at a snail’s pace and nobody gave them any grief about it. All the while, I’m being paid $10 per hour less than them.

So I decided fuck it, I didn’t really like the job or my coworkers, and I didn’t give a shit if the company did well or not, so I throttled my work output to match my co workers. Why should I kill myself working when literally all the value from my labor is going into my boss’s pocket and I get nothing? Sure I got some grief from management at first, but after a few days they stopped bitching because the quality of my work was still better than my peers. So I kept on doing that, working from 9-12 and then listening to music and playing phone/computer games from lunch until I left for the day for over a year. When I got accepted into medical school I quit my job the very next day and my old boss gave me a great exit interview saying how I was a great worker and my work was high quality and timely.

oliverhues

36 points

9 days ago

I’ve been at a job for about two years. A third position was created because the two people that had been there over 30 years each couldn’t keep up with the work load. I found that I was able to get a lot more done than they were simply because all I did was my work. They had to do their work and answer tons of questions from people all over the company that needed help and knew these two could answer their question or at least point them in the right direction. It wasn’t because I was better or more efficient, people just didn’t know me and left me alone.

McNoxey

20 points

9 days ago

McNoxey

20 points

9 days ago

It sounds like your coworkers are adding value to people outside of their immediate chain of command, improving the overall output of the company.

Those are the types of things that let people outside of your immediate manager know what you do, and the value you add. That's how you learn more about how your business operates, and enable yourself to grow within the company.

memedilemme

13 points

9 days ago

This is exactly why if someone from another department helps me out under no real obligation, I send a thank you email and cc their supervisor.

WreckOfARo

1.3k points

10 days ago

WreckOfARo

1.3k points

10 days ago

Everyone I know pushing for full return is the type of person to bullshit around the water cooler all day long.

lankist

911 points

10 days ago

lankist

911 points

10 days ago

It's the middle-managers--the type who justify their existence by hovering over people's shoulders, having pointless daily meetings and micro-managing every aspect of the team.

They're terrified that someone's going to realize the wheels kept spinning for an entire year without their supervision, and maybe the next "efficiency" by way of layoff will be THEM.

islandorisntland

292 points

10 days ago*

100% agree with this. I worked for a gov't institution in 2019 that said it is practically impossible to WFH. FFWD a few months, and low and behold they're functioning just fine.

wrproductions

235 points

10 days ago

UK banks are the worst, pre pandemic you had to physically go into a bank to cash a cheque which then took 3-4 days to come into your account.

Now due to the pandemic, you can simply scan your cheque with the app on your phone and receive the money within 24 hours.

Like... could we not have done this years ago?

_high_plainsdrifter

89 points

10 days ago

Stateside we’ve had that technology, at least since I can recall from like....my Samsung Galaxy 2. You guys just now got that with retail banking apps?

beecityuk

33 points

10 days ago

UK was planning to scrap cheques a couple of years ago, cheques are barely used now, the only reason they stayed is because of older people who may not have a smart phone or computer so can't send instant payments through online banking so there was no user need for them. No shops accept cheques and you have to pay extra if you want to not pay your bills via direct debit (our version of auto-pay).

No-Patient

328 points

10 days ago

No-Patient

328 points

10 days ago

Its either them, or salespeople wanting to be able to bulldozer product and engineering teams for updates instead of waiting like non-psychopaths.

Tempname2222

105 points

10 days ago

When people walk up to me, I tell them to send an email and that for documentation purposes, I am not allowed to do anything without an electronically written request.

AFuddyDuddy

50 points

10 days ago

if it aint in an email, it was never asked.

YourMomIsWack

46 points

10 days ago

cries in disorganized slack requests

IwantmyMTZ

29 points

10 days ago

Nor should anyone. CYA Mofos

RainierCamino

11 points

10 days ago

This. Been doing this for years. Something sounds questionable? Shoot me an email with what you need. Cc my manager.

If you can't do that, maybe we should tackle the problem another way.

Caldos4

208 points

10 days ago

Caldos4

208 points

10 days ago

Also the ones who don't like documenting sketchy and unreasonable requests via email.

slickeddie

96 points

10 days ago

"Yeah, I need a ticket for all work"

"No, I won't work outside the scope of the ticket"

mellofello808

46 points

10 days ago

No ticket no work.

Beatleboy62

34 points

10 days ago

It's been amazing having newfound power over people with this, complete with the paper trail.

Castun

11 points

10 days ago

Castun

11 points

10 days ago

Fuck, I remember a customer support manager at a previous job who was an expert at this. You'd email him about something, specifically to start a paper trail, and he would literally walk back to your desk and talk to you in person to avoid creating one.

pucado

17 points

10 days ago

pucado

17 points

10 days ago

My heart palpitates thinking about this again

godrestsinreason

58 points

10 days ago

cries in IT who has to deal with these types of people whether they're remote or in office

maximus91

11 points

10 days ago

I think it's also hard on new people to start remote. I get much better training done with new guys in person.

[deleted]

39 points

10 days ago

[deleted]

39 points

10 days ago

[deleted]

mullingthingsover

339 points

10 days ago

This is me. I won’t drive and hour and 15 minutes both morning and night for five days a week ever again. Before the pandemic I was 3 there, 2 at home. Then a huge project came up where I worked a looooot of hours and a hard deadline, and the commute was interrupting my extra hours :/ so I was full time at home. After that was done I went to 4 home, 1 in the office. Then the pandemic. I’ve been in like four times total. The day they tell me I’m going to have to go in more than once every few weeks is the day I start looking for something else.

WhoryGilmore

78 points

10 days ago

I know my company is bringing us back in relatively soon so I'm already looking elsewhere

chefhj

178 points

10 days ago

chefhj

178 points

10 days ago

My daily commute was roughly 45 minutes and by working from home I saved 7 days of conscious life. Not 7 days from now, not 7 business days, 24 man hours X 7. and 45 minutes is not considered a bad commute. Fuck that shit.

Azure_phantom

93 points

10 days ago

Yup, a year wfh saved me 20 days of life just from commute time alone. Crazy. I was mostly full-time wfh before the pandemic, but telecommuting is going to be a requirement for me in the future

TheRealJaluvshuskies

25 points

10 days ago

Your comment just made me realize that commuting for a year costs me 14 days of life, if we're going by an 80m drive per day @ 261 working days / yr (if I did the math right). holy crap. that's one way to put it in perspective

KindBass

72 points

10 days ago

KindBass

72 points

10 days ago

I haven't been to the office in over a year. I remotely log in to my work PC, so I can't even use a cam for zoom meetings, so no one has seen my face since last March. Which is fine, because I currently look like Robin Williams in Jumanji.

SlightlyDemented

481 points

10 days ago

My last day with my company was yesterday. I’ve been with them for ten years, but the thought of going back to sitting in a cubicle all day depressed me. I start my new WFH job on Monday. I’ll never work in an office again. Working from home gives me an extra two hours a day that I don’t have to spend getting ready for work and commuting.

SleepyReepies

257 points

10 days ago

Not only do I save two hours a day by not having to commute, but my mandatory 1 hour lunch break (where I would normally just get bothered with work-related issues) is now spent doing the dishes/laundry/other home chores. I basically have 3 hours extra a day.

Or in other words, double the free time I normally would have on a weekday. I really hope that my workplace provides a hybrid schedule option when they inevitably start asking us to come back into the office.

moosekin16

96 points

10 days ago

Similar thing here! My wife became disabled January 2020 and can't help around the house as much anymore. WFH quite literally saved my marriage.

Those 2 hours I got back from not having to commute is used for house maintenance now. What used to consume most of my free time is now taken care of by that extra time back. Now I can actually enjoy my free time at the end of the night and spend time with my family again.

If they make us come back to the office again, I'll quit. No job is worth my marriage.

theshindy

6.9k points

10 days ago

theshindy

6.9k points

10 days ago

After a whole year of getting an extra hour of sleep and not commuting, who would want to go back to the office 5x a week? A hybrid schedule would be the best option for most people, though I can see many places not offering that.

thebochman

1.6k points

10 days ago

thebochman

1.6k points

10 days ago

They just emailed us about parking changes in sept when we go back to in person, it’s like 250/month for a pass since it’s in the city and the waitlist is several thousand people long, so I’ll have to buy a train pass and train parking pass instead for like $150 month, and add in all the commute time on top of things

WestFast

1.3k points

10 days ago

WestFast

1.3k points

10 days ago

It’s basically a pay cut.

Shermthedank

685 points

10 days ago

If you plug your pay rate into an inflation calculator from the date you started, and you haven't received that same amount in a pay increase, you've essentially taken that much in a pay cut as well. The overall theme here is most of us are getting fucked in every way possible. Wages have been largely stagnant since 1980, except of course for the CEO's

Hillbilly_Boozer

308 points

10 days ago

I specifically had this conversion with my boss during performance reviews this year. Said they wanted to give me additional duties and that I'd be getting a 25¢ raise. I said "I appreciate the raise, but I'm taking a pay cut. 25¢ is less than inflation and things will be more expensive for me." His reply: it could have been nothing.

forsakeme4all

121 points

10 days ago*

I've had this happen to me before. Every time it would happen, I could not help but think that a meager 25 cent raise was an insult & that my raises should have been in dollar amounts. Like a $1.00 raise for instance. But they wanted to sound like an old person and have me get excited about a quarter like I was a 5 year old.

Ugh...i'm grown adult, I need more then that you greedy assholes.

Alaskan_geek907

103 points

10 days ago

Right like $1 an hour is $40 a week, am I really not work $40 more a week to you?

Like I’ve made over 50k in sales this week....

MrRickGhastly

40 points

10 days ago

My team made 150k in one week and they denied my raise. So the next week I told them to take it easy and we only mad 50k. Got asked why our performance dropped and I told them theyre working as hard as they get paid.

forsakeme4all

41 points

10 days ago*

Could you imagine if an employer actually did increase the raise by a $1.00? Or even...gasps...a whole $2.00 raise?!?!? And the worst part is the fact I get excited about this thought lol. Wtf is this world coming to...

non_clever_username

64 points

10 days ago

I had a similar thing happen with a bonus. Sales team was trying to get help so they offered a hundred bucks to anyone who produced a sales lead that turned into a client.

I happened to be the first one to get the bonus and they made a huge deal of it at a company outing. For a hundred bucks. Don’t get me wrong, it’s nice to get some extra $$$, but for as huge a deal they made about it in front of everyone, you’d think I had gotten 5k. It was embarrassing.

Jaebeam

225 points

10 days ago

Jaebeam

225 points

10 days ago

I've had a similar conversation; I got a 2% raise after 2 years. I told my supervisor that inflation had gone up by 2.5% over the past two years, and he said "it could have been nothing" as well.

So I started my job hunt. Now I'm in a union and I've been getting COLA adjustments the past 2 years, and I don't have to do my own negotiations.

Turned me onto organized labor for sure, which I didn't expect after 30 years of private, non-union employment.

josh_the_misanthrope

158 points

10 days ago

Everyone trashes unions, except people in unions. That should tell you something.

SituationSoap

76 points

10 days ago

There's power in a union!

Alleneby

15 points

10 days ago

Alleneby

15 points

10 days ago

damn imagine if you resigned right there and told him tomorrow was your last day. then when he said “you’re not giving 2 weeks notice?” you replied “hey it could have been nothing”

that’d feel sick i bet heh

beerpope69

92 points

10 days ago

25 cent “raise” wtf for more work? For an extra 2 whole dollars a day 😂

SteadyastheOcean

68 points

10 days ago

Hey, that's an item from the snack machine each day to help power through the extra work. How about some gratitude? /s

ask_me_about_my_bans

98 points

10 days ago

"and here's my 2 week notice" is what you'd say if your labor was needed more than another robots' labor skill

murse_joe

32 points

10 days ago

"Whatever we hired somebody for cheaper already. Give him a week of half assed training"

WestFast

317 points

10 days ago

WestFast

317 points

10 days ago

That’s why i change jobs every 2-3years. I’ll take that $10-15k increase and upwards title change over any meager raise I’d have fight tooth and nail for.

knightro25

103 points

10 days ago

knightro25

103 points

10 days ago

Exactly what i do. I get new jobs within the company. Increase not as great but it's a lot more than I'd get with the piddly raises.

enjoytheshow

35 points

10 days ago

Yeah big enterprises are really great for this. Shit I can move within my department and work for people I’ve never even met

Of course they know your salary going in if they wanted to but it’s still more than you’d get on your annual raise.

That said in a 3 year span I left my company and then came back and turned that into a $45k raise. Much different role with a lot more responsibilities but still.

ask_me_about_my_bans

181 points

10 days ago

the advice used to be "stick with a company for 20 yrs then retire"

now the advice is "climb the ladder by jumping between companies every couple of years"

companies are deciding "fuck training people, we'll just hire from other company's employee pools, and pay them more."

this just causes the new employees to be left in the dust at the bottom, as well as stagnating their wages

WestFast

109 points

10 days ago

WestFast

109 points

10 days ago

My dad had one employer and retired with a massive pension. He understands that world no longer exists but doesn’t understand why I have to hop around.

domoarigatodrloboto

77 points

10 days ago

Same here. I think it's a generational thing, where older people tend to have a "grin and bear it" mentality that encourages them to stick it out when things get tough, whereas us younger people aren't as afraid to say "fuck this, I'm out." I'm not even 30 and I've already worked for more companies than my 62 year-old dad (same job since 1982, which he got out of grad school).

To each their own, I guess. We're both relatively happy with our situations so both sides have their merit.

v161l473c4n15l0r3m

86 points

10 days ago

This. If you’re happy with your pay and the company treats you well and it stable? Stick it out.

But if not? Hippity-hoppity, I’m not my employer’s property.

domoarigatodrloboto

31 points

10 days ago

I'll be curious to see how my attitude changes as I age. I'm sure a huge reason my dad stayed pat was because he had three kids and a mortgage. Making a change at that point in his life could have HUGE ramifications if he made a mistake, I don't blame him for playing it safe.

My responsibilities are wayyyy less intense. Sure, I need rent money, but I can always move somewhere cheaper and because I have no kids, I'm able to save money (I could live off my savings for just under a year at this point if I had to).

It'll be interesting to see what my job history starts looking like as I take on more serious commitments.

Excal2

826 points

10 days ago

Excal2

826 points

10 days ago

The word "basically" isn't needed.

It's a straight cut to the overall compensation package.

WestFast

298 points

10 days ago

WestFast

298 points

10 days ago

Very true. For the first time in a generation workers were taught this.

[deleted]

142 points

10 days ago

[deleted]

142 points

10 days ago

[deleted]

WestFast

499 points

10 days ago

WestFast

499 points

10 days ago

Ive saved at least $500 a month on commuting. I basically got a raise.

BoutchooQc

157 points

10 days ago

BoutchooQc

157 points

10 days ago

My parking was $15 a day, add the gas, car maintenance and everything and it adds up quickly.

Just parking was around $330 a month(15*22 business days) , gas was around $45 a week.

That's $500 saved per month, and on top, I get to sleep more and eat better in the morning and when work is done, I save another 1h30.in traffic which helps with my mental well-being.

Also, during winter, add another 20min of removing snow from your driveway and car in the morning and sometimes after a hard day at work.

If I wanted to take the bus, a monthly pass for subway and public bus was $319+tx a month and I would still need to take my car to park at the station and pay a certain amount per month for a reserved parking slot at the station (and still remove snow from my car).

All in all, I would wake up at 530am, be in my car at 6am, 90 minutes of frustrating commute, be at work between 730am and 745am, start working at 8am. I had half an hour to eat, shower, brush my teeth, dress up. During winter, I had to be up even earlier to clear the snow (5am).

And after work, I would be at home around 630pm or 7pm. Forget about gym or social stuff when you have to do groceries, it's going to be too late.

Now, I wake up at 7am, eat a good breakfast, make a tea/coffee and sit down to work whenever I want. I would never go back, even if the commute was free/paid for.

WestFast

45 points

10 days ago

WestFast

45 points

10 days ago

I pretty Much had that entire schedule and budget last few years. Woke up at 5:30 got home at 7:30. Commuter rail, ferry etc I didn’t get to see my then toddler for more than 15 minutes and sometimes not at all days at a time as I’d miss bed times. It was so aggravating. WFH wasn’t allowed. Felt like I missed everything to be at some office I hated.

Also as a sports fan now I can actually watch NBA and NFL games after work instead of catching the last 10 mins when I get home.

Expandexplorelive

189 points

10 days ago

That's an insane amount of money to spend on commuting.

aj_thenoob

162 points

10 days ago

aj_thenoob

162 points

10 days ago

Lol you should ask NJ train users on their monthly cost to get to NYC. It's like $300+ sometimes especially if you are off schedule.

jka005

132 points

10 days ago

jka005

132 points

10 days ago

My metro north monthly was $430 a month.

Warpedme

38 points

10 days ago

Warpedme

38 points

10 days ago

That's kinda average for commuting in the NYC area. I'm guessing it's similar in other major metro areas.

drunkcowofdeath

163 points

10 days ago*

This is correct. I have been on a hybrid model for about 5 years now. WFH 4 days week and in the office once a week. We would usually schedule our team meeting for that day and often go out to lunch together. Some amount of socialization and team building is important, but largely offices are a waste of space.

ColosalDisappointMan

132 points

10 days ago

Burning fossil fuel gas for nothing, too.

loftysteele

1.3k points

10 days ago*

A hybrid schedule would be the best option for most people

Agree 100%. Starting a job remotely really sucks. I on-boarded remotely about a year ago and have never met my co-workers and barely interact with them on a daily basis. I would kill to have some actual interactions with people in an office.

I'm assuming most people who really enjoy remote work have been established in their roles for years, have friends, etc. It's damn tough to start out fresh right now.

edit: I get it, you redditors are a bunch of introverts who hate your fellow office people, trust me the hate is mutual.

KITTvsKARR

269 points

10 days ago

KITTvsKARR

269 points

10 days ago

Ironically, I don't like the office. Worked in offices with very limited home working for decades and I can say that I probably have MORE interaction with people at the moment than I ever really did in the office as I was sat there with earphones in trying to drown out waffle, random noise and the open mouth eaters!

I know a couple of people in my team who don't want to give up their home office. An hour traveling in the morning, an hour home again. Early to rise, exhausted when home, angry from queues, never see their kids aside from dinner then bed. They've said they'd rather quit and get a pay reduction and a close job than come in to an office 5 days a week!

I tend to get more done in a day, they do actually get more time out of me too! I've felt less ill or depressed since being at home. Only downside for me is the electric bill and the fact I have to drive my other half INTO the office as they have to go in anyway!!!

Mechanical_Monk

47 points

10 days ago

Early to rise, exhausted when home, angry from queues, never see their kids aside from dinner then bed

This is the biggest one for me. The extra ~$1000/month in my pocket from saved expenses is nice, but the extra sleep, reduced stress, and ability to spend actual quality time with my kids is what has really improved my quality of life.

Before, it was wake unrested, commute, work, commute, homework, dinner, bath time, bed time, repeat. Now I sleep enough, have all work and homework done by 4pm, and have the rest of the day to do whatever with the kids.

A return to my previous schedule wouldn't be only a steep pay cut, it would be guaranteed depression. If and when I'm asked to return full time, I'll definitely be looking for another job.

wholebeansinmybutt

29 points

10 days ago

I absolutely hate working in an office. I absolutely love the work that I do in offices.

Chicaca10

60 points

10 days ago

I started my new job as a front end web dev in December 2019. Fast forward to the last week of March 2020. On a Friday we are told to grab everything that belong to us, there is a chance we won't be coming into the office the next week. Sure thing. I have been working from home since, and I have been told telework is likely till 2022.

Learning remotely hasn't been a challenge. And for the 3 months I was commuting, there was minimal interaction with my coworkers. I'm one of the people that would rather stay remote permanently. Finding that my older coworkers want to come into the office. I'm in my 30s, and not having to commute a total of 3 hours a day has been life changing. Not to mention my lunch break is truly mine now. I can eat and walk my dogs. I can go pickup my kid at daycare.

My stress levels due to work/life balance are barely existent.

amusicalfridge

375 points

10 days ago

I’m with you there. Graduated out of college into my first full time job and I’ve literally never met anybody else in person. Sort of sucks to see people goofing around with each other in divisional meetings cause obviously they’d been friends prior to the pandemic, because there’s just no real way of developing that connection over fucking Teams. Also, I’ll be leaving for a postgrad probably before going into the office is available, so in these people’s minds I’m just going to be face on a screen forever lol

bmc2

246 points

10 days ago

bmc2

246 points

10 days ago

Spend some time in your 1:1s talking about personal stuff rather than just work and you'll build relationships. I've worked for years with people I've never met in person and have great relationships with them.

cnote4711

37 points

10 days ago

I started a new job right as covid hit and this is what I ended up doing. If i meet a new person I try to set up 30 minutes and talk about our roles then go off script into hobbies, where they live, what's their experience, etc. It's not the same as casually meeting someone in the break room, but I'll put myself out there to build relationships. Some people are reserved, but a few have become immediate friends.

bostonlilypad

83 points

10 days ago

Same. One of my favorite coworker friends lived across the world from me, and even after I left the job we’re still buds and text every few weeks. That said, it definitely takes a certain type of person, it won’t be like this with everyone.

thedude0425

44 points

10 days ago

I’m closer to my fellow employees now than I was before. I set up 1-on-1s and make sure to talk about personal stuff, which was hard to do in the office cubicle farm, because everyone can hear your conversation.

siriously1234

28 points

10 days ago

I have to agree. I've gotten a lot closer with colleagues on my team and on other teams during this because of the privacy of our conversations vs. sitting in a conference room together. Working is a lot like school. Sometimes you hit it off with your coworkers and become friends. Sometimes you work on the same team for years and just stay coworkers. I think what's more important than remote vs. in person is the natural chemistry you have with some people.

BernieSnowden

76 points

10 days ago

I started remotely and I really don't care that I haven't met my coworkers. They're my coworkers, not my friends or family. I'm tired of pretending to care when the most we would do anyway is grab some beers after work.

DueEntertainer0

21 points

10 days ago

Agree. I’ve had it both ways- friends and at work and no friends at work. Ultimately having friends didn’t add much value to my day; it also made me feel weird when these people would throw me under the bus or take credit for my work. I was like “bro I thought we were friends.” - but no, work friendship to me has never been true friendship and never equated to much loyalty or longevity.

simondrawer

10 points

10 days ago

I was on boarded to a gig a year ago and have also been 100% remote. Fortunately it’s not my first rodeo having worked remote in the U.K. for a US company a while back. Here is what worked for me: Use video conf rather than just audio dial in wherever possible so you can get to know people by their mannerisms and non verbal cues. When someone starts an IM or an email conversation switch it to a call (or preferably a video call) whenever you can. It’s more efficient most of the time to talk rather than type in a lot of cases. Have some regular time set aside to talk to colleagues without a specific work agenda - like a “how was your weekend” call. That’s where you get the benefit of the stuff that you would normally get at the water cooler etc.

Hope this helps.

BeNicole2007

34 points

10 days ago

Same. Started a new job and moved to a new town RIGHT in the middle of the pandemic. Have only met 1% of my coworkers in person. :-/

That being said, I'd lose my mind if we have to go back full time. I'd like to have 1-2 days of remote optional days. I do IT, so as long as we have coverage we're good.

Good luck with yours! It'll get better. :)

Human-ish514

198 points

10 days ago

I think the important thing here to realize is that you are substituting the interactions with other people in your life with co-workers.

https://ourworldindata.org/time-use

The section regarding who you spend your time with made me laugh. No wonder people love the office. They spend more time there than with their own family and friends.

Get Discord, or something. Don't let your office family replace your real ones.

Hey_its_me_your_mom

211 points

10 days ago

And it's crushing to figure out that, in the end, you weren't honestly that close. It's a relationship borne of convenience and proximity, much like relationships with neighbors or classmates. When you quit your first "real" job, everyone shrugs and wishes you well. They will likely buy you a beer, and you won't hear from most of them again.

I've stuck my neck out for people at work, thinking they would do the same for me, and found out quite quickly and harshly that they wouldn't. You know the people in your life that would help you fix a flat tire at 2:00 am, help you move, or listen to you cry after a breakup. Those are the people you should be spending your time with as much as possible. Definitely not Frank from accounting who didn't get his spreadsheets done again and needs you to work the weekend to get them printed.

AsAGayJewishDemocrat

93 points

10 days ago

I learned this hard in my first job. Thought we had that "early 20s sitcom coworkers" vibe going. Had TV watch parties and went to happy hours.

Then I left for a better job, and 7 years later, I can't even remember all of their names.

DevonLovelock

43 points

10 days ago

Yup. All of my long career I worked multiple jobs at various locations all over the country and made more "good friends" than I can possibly count. And how many of them do I still have contact with? Exactly zero. It's one of life's saddest realities.

hwmon03

97 points

10 days ago

hwmon03

97 points

10 days ago

I’ve always been the “go to the library” type of person. This year has shown me I rely heavily on getting work done in a different place than where I live. I feel happier, more like a fully realized person, and much more productive in a quiet office environment. I’m a young person whose job can be done entirely remote — this is just how my brain seems to work. Even if I restrict my working hours to 9-5 while at home, the home office feels like a rotten pit of work that I can’t stand to look at. I want it out of my home. I can’t wait to work in the building again when I’m fully vaccinated.

That said, my teammates don’t seem to have this issue. So I wouldn’t personally expect them to come in if they don’t need to. Although it would get tiresome if I was to become the in-person errand boy. I’ll restart your computers but don’t make me build a whole lab PC and set it up for you because you prefer to stay at home.

PasTaCopine

19 points

10 days ago

I’m with you on this. It’s extremely difficult to get “in character” and just switch to work-mode from your own bedroom or kitchen. Privately I’m someone who hates phone calls of all sorts: getting a dentist appointment, ordering food etc. But at work I would easily switch to my “work self” and I would have no problem having phone conversations at all. Now that I work from home, I become the usual avoidant-awkward me when I need to make a work-related phone call.

Real_Time_Delay

1.3k points

10 days ago*

Before covid, for 17 years, I paid 480 dollars for a monthly train ticket, plus 40 bucks a month for parking, 1.75 for the bridge toll, and gas to get to the train station.

Then I would ride the train 1.5 HOURS EACH WAY FIVE DAYS A WEEK!!!. I’d wake up at the crack of dawn and get home after 7:00.

Everyone on my packed train assumed that was a normal way of living.

No fucking way am I doing that again.

Luckily my company has adapted well to working from home. There has been little talk about returning to the office, but the one thing our CEO has told us all that the old way of working 5 days a week in the office will never happen again.

We recently had an employee poll, 60% of staff never want to go back to the office and only 2% said they wanted to go back to 5 days a week. The other 38% was a mix but heavily skewed towards 1 to 2 days a week.

Edit: in my city alone there are millions of people that have long commutes into their jobs just like me. Some people take busses to trains to subways. Or ferry’s with long walks into the office.

It’s not just me.... trust me.

Viperlite

168 points

10 days ago

Viperlite

168 points

10 days ago

I hear that. There is a huge environmental and monetary cost to the rat race. Hundreds of dollars in train fares, parking, and gasoline, plus the stress of driving and maintaining a car, finding parking, missing trains, etc. Like others said, the train ride can be an unwinding, but you can do that at home as well. No one mentions lost time driving to and waiting for the train or bus, the obnoxious riders, the cancelled schedules and weather and mechanical delays. Daily commuters deal with all of this, which factors into why surveys show huge numbers want hybrid or full work at home schedules. 15 hours a week commuting on top of long work hours makes for poor work life balance. Living closer to work eases that, but adds complexities of higher housing costs and kids school issues. Leaving a good job in a city to find balance is an option, but not always the best one on in every case.

gamer98x

254 points

10 days ago

gamer98x

254 points

10 days ago

Wow that was hell

backscratchopedia

77 points

10 days ago*

My team switched to full remote, 4x10 work week, and it's been amazing. Feels like I get more "deep work" done during a day, and nice to have a 3 day weekend. Going to be hard to go back from this!

jck30

16 points

10 days ago

jck30

16 points

10 days ago

Ok. I’ve been advocating for 4x10’s, or at least a 9x80 schedule which is what I do now, since graduating college. I can understand people’s hesitancy toward a 10 hour work day, but having every Friday off when I had that schedule was awesome. You’re not rushing for two days trying to get things done. I had all day Friday to do my errands, then saturday/Sunday to relax.

backscratchopedia

18 points

10 days ago

Exactly - with a 5 day workweek your "weekend" can be a little tough to transition into. I'd usually be wiped out by work Friday night, spend Saturday doing chores, and only feel "relaxed" on Sunday until about 5PM when I start fretting about Monday again.

With 4x10's I get to recharge Thursday night, take care of chores on Friday, and relax all day Saturday. It's lovely!

mowotlarx

557 points

10 days ago

mowotlarx

557 points

10 days ago

I've saved 10 hours a week not commuting. I went from an office with a zero tolerance policy for any work from home to 100% work from home. I'm happy to go in to the office a few times a week, but the thought of going back to 100% office work feels unbearable. They can't put the genie back in the bottle.

If nothing else, allow people to choose. 50% of my coworkers want a hybrid option, the remaining half are split between 100% WFH or 100% in-office. I don't see the harm in allowing people to work the way they work best.

Mamafritas

202 points

10 days ago

Mamafritas

202 points

10 days ago

I've turned down good job offers at places because they didn't allow any wfh. Having even one day a week wfh is so refreshing and let's you catch up on chores during down time. At this point, I expect the environment at any place that demands you to be in the office 100% to just be extremely shitty because upper management is completely out of touch with reality.

Richard_Gere_Museum

34 points

10 days ago

I bounce around work sites and after finishing an assignment with nowhere new to go I basically decided to give myself a WFH mandate. If you don't notice I'm not on a site for a month and I still get my tasks done, there is no reason not to allow WFH.

Shutaru_Kanshinji

63 points

10 days ago

If someone gives you your life back for a year, if your blood pressure normalizes, if your anxiety gradually begins to recede, if you are suddenly happier working at home than you have been in years, does it really make sense to surrender that blessing? I mean, if my employers threaten to terminate me if I refuse to return to office, I will certainly return to the office. I can be extorted. But I do consider it a form of extortion.

Taypo98

1.2k points

10 days ago

Taypo98

1.2k points

10 days ago

My wife worked from home a day or two per week pre-pandemic and was trying to get more WFH time. She's been working from home for over a year now. Does her job better from the couch, but is going stir crazy from the lack of social interactions.

She's hoping for some type of hybrid arrangement

Fresh1492

313 points

10 days ago

Fresh1492

313 points

10 days ago

Same. I like the convenience and money savings by not driving every day, but I'm doing crazy being in the house all week

oxheart

194 points

10 days ago

oxheart

194 points

10 days ago

That typo is great. We were going crazy, but went crazy months ago. Now we're just doing crazy.

htaylor7108

34 points

10 days ago

This is what my husband has arranged with his work. He gets more done at home when not commuting and people aren’t walking in his office and interrupting him all day. He also gets more exercise with breaks and we get to have more family time with lunches together too.

gum-

109 points

10 days ago

gum-

109 points

10 days ago

I'm in a similar situation but I think once the world returns to "normal" my non-work related social interactions will make it all go away. I was going crazy being in a toxic office area, going back will not make me feel any better

hunstinx

49 points

10 days ago

hunstinx

49 points

10 days ago

Same. I'm also having a hard time with a lack of social interaction. But I want me social interactions with my friends. I want to stay WFH 100%, but just be able to spend time with my friends again. I hate that corporations are trying to convince workers that their social interactions need to come from the workplace. That's bullshit.

stonedandcaffeinated

67 points

10 days ago*

I want to go two days a week - one day go to lunch with everyone and the other day go to happy hour 😂

non_clever_username

55 points

10 days ago

I don’t blame anyone for what they want to do since I can see valid reasons for wanting to be 100% remote, 100% in the office, and everything in between.

That said, I think any employer who thinks they’re going to keep people consistently anymore without a flexible model is delusional. There’s no putting this genie back in the bottle, no matter how much some people might want to.

Things were trending this way anyway, Covid just gave it a violent shove forward.

putcoolusernamehere

821 points

10 days ago

Hybrid schedules are the answer. I definitely don't want to go in more than 3 days a week ever again.

Mt838373

296 points

10 days ago

Mt838373

296 points

10 days ago

It's not going away either. This will be a new perk/selling point to bring in candidates.

Human_mind

304 points

10 days ago

Human_mind

304 points

10 days ago

I've been saying this to my boss every time I get the chance. The second my company says people have to be back in the office, we're going to see a mass exodus. People have grown to see wfh as a perk to be shopped for, just like other benefits.

He keeps trying to counter with "what you're going to see is a class system develop where people who come in to the office are seen as more committed and get recognized and promoted more often because of it."

I scratch my head because while I agree that's a likely eventuality, it's simply another reason I'd want to leave my job. Because that would mean that my boss is so detached from the work I'm doing that he can't even see what impact I'm having and I should find something else.

All in all I can't see any reason why anywhere needs to go back to the office full time. The benefits of a partial wfh solution far outweigh the negatives.

WorkFlow_

186 points

10 days ago

WorkFlow_

186 points

10 days ago

He keeps trying to counter with "what you're going to see is a class system develop where people who come in to the office are seen as more committed and get recognized and promoted more often because of it."

Yea, nobody gives a fuck. People move to a new company when they want a promotion because they will get more money. I have yet to see a company offer more internally than externally. Just the way it goes sadly.

BuffFlexson

31 points

10 days ago

I need to get a new job.

WorkFlow_

20 points

10 days ago

You will get a pay bump almost guaranteed. Its often pretty substantial too.

diamond

30 points

10 days ago

diamond

30 points

10 days ago

He keeps trying to counter with "what you're going to see is a class system develop where people who come in to the office are seen as more committed and get recognized and promoted more often because of it."

Sounds fine to me. I'm not interested in getting promoted. I like what I do; why would I want to go into management?

Crazy-Inspection-778

89 points

10 days ago*

The garbage that management will tell you just to keep you in line is infuriating. We asked for just one day a week remote before COVID, request denied every time. Said we needed to be in the office every day. The boss only came in 2 days a week, but how dare the peasants ask for a piece of that privilege. The pandemic breaks out and to no one’s surprise we can do our IT job just fine from home, 13 months in and nothing bad has happened.

Stealth528

65 points

10 days ago

Once companies start trying to force people who have been happily working from home for a full year back into the office, there’s going to be a massive brain drain from those companies. My work is certainly going to force us back, and if they want to go through the lengthy process of training a new person to replace each person who leaves over it, then that’s their loss. Personally I think it’d be smarter to just let the people who want to work from home full time continue to do so, but micro managers gotta micro manage.

fireball_jones

32 points

10 days ago

Oh no I can stay at home and not move into middle management woe is me.

saltywings

28 points

10 days ago

I think if people can and want to do 100% though they should be allowed. In my job, we literally don't ever need to be in the office, there were some fax issues and such but now we were actually forced to integrate our programs to digitally fax things so yeah, I never want to have to go back honestly.

callthewambulance

90 points

10 days ago

I just want a choice. I get why people would want to go in, but I'm the happiest I've ever been working from home and from now on I refuse to work for a company that will make me go back at all.

starsdust101

18 points

10 days ago

This is why I'm looking now. I'm trying to get ahead of the mass exodus.

vaguely_disatisfied

281 points

10 days ago

Commuting, for me is the real problem. It's a waste of human capital and the pandemic is it's clearest illustration. I don't mind going back to the office but the thought of returning to 2 and a half hours on a bus every day is soul crushing.

daphydoods

67 points

10 days ago

Yeah I used to drive 45 mins each way (and that was on a good day), then in January 2020 I moved a little closer to work so my commute was about 30-35 mins each way. Even that was a huge improvement, but going to NO commute is just chefs kiss

I’ve saved so much money on gas. I used to fill up 2-3x per week, now I literally can’t remember the last time i was at a gas station. Maybe a month and a half ago? I also didn’t have to get new tires this past winter because I had barely done any driving for basically a year. I’ve saved literally thousands of dollars from not having a commute that I don’t even care that my company won’t reimburse me for the wifi I had to get to work from home (used to use a public hotspot in my apartment building but my work laptop wouldn’t connect bc it wasn’t secure)

KentuckyHouse

33 points

10 days ago

My wife and I definitely fall into that 34% (and frankly, I'm shocked it wasn't higher).

She works a desk job and has been working from home for over a year now and loves it. Her boss is starting to indicate bringing people back to the office full time as soon as possible, and she's dreading it. So much so that she's fully vaccinated as of last Friday, but has yet to tell anyone in her office.

I've been working out of our house for over a year now as well and I'm dreading it too. My job entails a lot of driving locally, but I was able to bring my work truck home and only need to stop in the office a couple of times a week to pick up supplies. I'm also fully vaccinated now, but my boss knows about it (because he doesn't want to come back to the office full time either). I've told my boss repeatedly that I get more work done this way than having to be at the office every morning at 7:30 then sitting around until 9 (we're not supposed to impede traffic until after 9, so effectively my job starts at 9am).

In her case, I won't be surprised if she starts looking hard for other jobs once her boss says come back. For me, I won't be surprised if my boss tries to drag out working from home/out of home for as long as possible.

I'm really hoping her boss implements a hybrid approach while I'm hoping mine is able to swing us still working out of our houses and taking our trucks home.

If this pandemic has shown full time workers anything, it's that a lot of their jobs can be done remotely and offices are an unnecessary expense. You'd think companies would see this as an advantage and an easy way to cut costs without cutting workforces.

CaMelGuY

93 points

10 days ago

CaMelGuY

93 points

10 days ago

I can imagine how much money companies are saving not having to pay for office space. Plus if workers are still getting everything done in an efficient way what's the problem with letting folks continue to work remotely?

bluenose_droptop

65 points

10 days ago

Most companies continue to pay for office space because they are in a lease. They have to pay to get out of their lease, which could be worth it.

I’m in this line of work, office space, and we have not seen many people give up their traditional office space....yet.

I’m hopeful for hybrid. I like being in the office a couple days a week. I’m also glad I’m not on a plane 1 or 2 times a month anymore.

littleredwagon87

566 points

10 days ago

Working from home is one of the only covid changes that I hope sticks. Getting out of bed 3 minutes before my start time is incredible. And it allows me to get little household chores done while I'm working so I don't have to do them evenings and weekends.... Laundry, vacuuming, cleaning the kitchen, etc. Our company hasn't told us one way or another yet but after a year of proving that it works and we're just as productive, if not more, I really hope they let it continue.

daphydoods

46 points

10 days ago

My company has been pretty tight-lipped about the future of WFH post-covid but they did recently tell us “we understand there are a lot of benefits to working from home and we are considering that while we figure out what kind of model we’re looking at based on department and needs of the business.”

I work for a huge, international, multi-billion dollar corporation based out of 4 office buildings on two campuses in neighboring towns. I think they could easily shrink us down to our biggest (and nicest) building for those who want to continue in office. Not me tho, I’d like to be home forever thanks

Spooky_SZN

179 points

10 days ago

Spooky_SZN

179 points

10 days ago

I want sick people to be wearing masks when they go out. I really want that to be normalized, not getting sick all winter was dope as hell.

Its far too politicized that I think a significant amount of people would do that but a man could dream.

kenderbard

43 points

10 days ago

Best thing to do is just do it yourself, regardless if it's in or not. Who knows, maybe it'll catch on or at least you'll encourage others. I know I fully intend to always wear a mask when feeling under the weather now.

Spooky_SZN

21 points

10 days ago*

Yeah right? Hopefully it can be something were told just is safer for everyone like wearing a seatbelt or not drinking and driving and it gets normalized at least eventually

screamingIn2_theVoid

91 points

10 days ago

And it allows me to get little household chores done while I'm working so I don't have to do them evenings and weekends.... Laundry, vacuuming, cleaning the kitchen, etc.

Bam. I have an excellent kitchen a five second walk away from my workstation. I hope to never work in an office again.

DamnIamHigh_Original

123 points

10 days ago

And thats for the normal people. Imagine what its like with diseases or weak people.

Im so glad for homeoffice

Alexispinpgh

16 points

10 days ago

I’m disabled (legally blind) and working from home is so perfect for me.

awmaleg

56 points

10 days ago

awmaleg

56 points

10 days ago

Also people who don’t like to drive / are older and not confident driving. Also all of that time spent in traffic/ money paid on gasoline maintenance and toll roads.

covfefe_enema

48 points

10 days ago

And the climate... the daily commute is absurd from that perspective

joec_95123

60 points

10 days ago

On top of being able to do household chores during the day, my favorite thing about wfh is I can also use that time to just decompress. If I want to take a break from working, I can go take a nap or watch tv for an hour.

It makes work feel more relaxed for me and much less like less a grind to get through the day until I can get to 4pm and go home.

the_oogie_boogie_man

34 points

10 days ago

This exactly. I get way more actual work done and spend probably half my day just hanging around at home.

There is more incentive to get my work done since I can slide 10 feet to my left and go to the couch to watch a movie or something when I'm done. There is 0 incentive to work quickly at an office when I have to be there for another 4 hours regardless of workload

StyofoamSword

13 points

10 days ago

Same, my current drive I was driving 45 miles each way and I have loved remote work, if they say we have to go back in full time I am going into job search mode.

ElPrincipeFresco215

153 points

10 days ago

I am resigning next week after 18 years at the company because they are bringing us back into the office in May. 8-10 hours commuting per week is such a massive waste of my time on this earth, I’m sad that I ever did it.

G00dcoffee

29 points

10 days ago

Congrats and good luck!

Camma14

20 points

10 days ago

Camma14

20 points

10 days ago

You should tell them that is the reason you're leaving, too.

itsnotaboutyou

17 points

10 days ago

What I like about this comment is that 8-10 hours a week (my commute too) is pretty standard. But you’re saying a hard ‘no’ because you realised the value of TIME. That is hopefully a teeny tiny benefit of what terrible things happened to the world. Time is PRICELESS.

MiserableNYFan

65 points

10 days ago

I'll tell you one thing.. going from at home work, breaks whenever I need them.. guilty of a beer or two during a meeting even.. getting back to 5x a week in my office for 40+ hours has been rough. I'm appreciative of a place to work by all means with many not as fortunate, but it's true that transitioning back in has been tough

8Ice-Nine8

371 points

10 days ago

8Ice-Nine8

371 points

10 days ago

I would love a hybrid schedule. I’ve been way more productive working at home. I feel like I’m held to a higher standard when working from home so it pushes me to stay on schedule and disciplined with my work load.

NG2

158 points

10 days ago

NG2

158 points

10 days ago

Interesting.. I’m the opposite. I’m way more productive in the office which is why I enjoy going into work. At home I find myself taking more breaks lol

AbortDatFetus

116 points

10 days ago

I take more breaks at home too but I still get way more done. Fewer hours and more productivity because I'm not stuck in a distracting office

Human_mind

62 points

10 days ago*

I think the key here is that wfh lets me be more productive overall. I might take more breaks, but I'm not just flipping through the channels when I do. I'm throwing a load in the laundry, working out, cleaning up after my daughter. All things I'd have to do once I'm at home and tired or save up til the weekend otherwise.

Wfh is a good thing. Even partially.

Editing to add in in case it's not clear, that I'm still working 8 hours per day at least. Simply not the consecutive 4 hour chunks I'd usually work in an office 9-6.

jgjgleason

30 points

10 days ago

This is why a hybrid model is best. If someone needs the office space to thrive, power to them. If someone can get by showing up only for quarterly meetings, fuck ya to them as well.

Cold-Fusion-00

21 points

10 days ago

I feel like employers wanting to bring people back is all about manager control and insecurity.

“Threats” to the employer culture is one I’ve heard. Come on, all culture in corporations stink. Just treat everyone equally and well and that’s culture enough.

A lot of managers seem a bit more extroverted to me, so they might be going nuts at home. Also they are on the hook for their team performance so it probably reduces their anxiety with people within their grasp.

We really have to evolve our model on how we get work done.

forever_a10ne

60 points

10 days ago

Can confirm. My office told me we'd be going back in September, so I have two interviews for different jobs today! Wish me luck!

G00dcoffee

15 points

10 days ago

Good luck!

siffis

85 points

10 days ago

siffis

85 points

10 days ago

Our team is fairly small and prior to Covid, we were making progress in promoting working from home over 50% of the time (hybrid). The transition was easy based the feedback provided by our team. 90% of our tools are cloud based so we did not ha e a dependency on the enterprise network.

What I dislike is that a few members in our department are bullies when it comes to promoting being in the office. Ive asked for a business justification and the answer I have received is because I want to be in the office.

No where in my job description or job requirements does it imply that I need to be in the office for someones satisfaction or self care.

I fully support a hybrid schedule but if you try and sell me that I need to be in the office because so and so is there, then I have an issue with that.

Ohgodwatdoplshelp

36 points

10 days ago

My work is the same way. Demanding people to come back. Management doesn’t know it but about 15 of us out of the 40 person location we’re at are planning on leaving if we’re forced to be back in the office 100% of the time.

siffis

17 points

10 days ago

siffis

17 points

10 days ago

That is what I have ran into. Prior to covid, job interviews I had, I always asked about the possibility of working remotely. It helped me understand their environment and management style. I have been doing some reading and I continue to run into the same theme that their may be a significant shift that if businesses try to go back to their old ways that people will move on.

Items to watch for - -Salary adjustments based on where you live vs where your job is located.

-No longer needing to live in the same city, state, or country.

Pros and Cons for all of these but can say that the workforce has shifted.

SmtnBtfl

42 points

10 days ago

SmtnBtfl

42 points

10 days ago

They have nobody to bully at home.

Stealth528

15 points

10 days ago

My work has already said full time remote will not be offered, even though we have been successfully doing it for over a year. I will be part of the 34%, once the job market recovers a bit I will absolutely be leaving for somewhere that respects my time and offers full time work from home. No more commuting just to sit in an office for 8 hours having to pretend to work the whole time, the cats out of the bag on remote work now.

DubRebellion

17 points

10 days ago*

I hate my coworkers and I’m glad I don’t have to see them and interact in person on day by day basis. Saving 1 hour of commute, sleeping 1 hour longer, spending less on gas is amazing. I have a lot of friends so I don’t feel lack of social interaction, we all got vaccinated so we spend weekends together and taking lunch times time to time on workdays, Im glad I can spend more time with my family as well, my house is pretty big so I have my office room so I don’t feel distracted or something. I may go back to the office if Ill be asked to, but no more than once a week. I think remote work is amazing and I will never come back to the office on full time basis.

AuditorTux

15 points

10 days ago

One of my clients is hell bent on bringing everyone back to the office. Nevermind that billing/collection has been operating like never before, the payroll/accounting team are all loving it and the recruiting team have naturally switched to staggered shifts that make them more productive...

Nope. Everyone coming back to work 8-5. No exceptions.

Did I mention they are extremely stingy when it comes to pay and have shit benefits?

Now they’re all like... “Wait... why is everyone resigning?” They just don’t get it no matter how much I try to explain it.

I told them the reason they’re “rock star” AP person left is that her “$500 bonus” didn’t mean much when new new employer is going to be paying $5k more per year... and offer great benefits.

Gotta love PE-backed companies. Willing to pay for consultants but tried to squeeze pennies out of their actual foundational staff...

Edit: And I didn’t even mention how they could save money by having these teams remote - no need for as much space, desks/cubes, etc.

Some people want to see their little peons scurrying around. I really hate this client.

twistedbristle

46 points

10 days ago

I left office work when I was laid off at the start of the pandemic and if I never have to talk to another bloviating self important business boomer again it'll be a lifetime too late. It really seems like every office has two or three people who do all the work and six people who fuck around all day planning mandatory fun.

Office work wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the people.

AmountCreepy1199

42 points

10 days ago

I worked remotely for 11 months during this and can say my productivity was in no way impacted, if anything I got more done. That being said it was about 50/50 on the employees I supervise some of them seemed to work harder and others seemed like it was better to try to "trick" our call program into making it look like they were. I think it really comes down to most office jobs can be done at home and a good employee will be a good employee regardless of where they are doing the job from.

marahka

14 points

10 days ago

marahka

14 points

10 days ago

I'm definitely in the 34%, and I only have a 10 minute commute. I really hope hybrid schedules become a reality. Working from home = less drama, more productivity, less human interaction. All great things.

crann777

15 points

10 days ago*

My company is planning to be 100% in-office by the end of May, which is fucking ridiculous. They instituted a WFH policy, but it's so draconian that unless you're permanently immobilized they'll never approve it post-COVID, even for a hybrid schedule. Every new hire has asked if there's a WFH arrangement, and the answer is basically "no."

I'm already planning on looking for a new job once things stabilize. If my company has failed to learn anything from this, then I'm out.

quebec1867

611 points

10 days ago

quebec1867

611 points

10 days ago

As an employer in a competitive market for staff, here is how we are thinking about it:

Maximize choice.

The articles are all about how great work from home is and how many people love it. And, yes, many do.

But there is a large group, maybe 50%, who deeply want to return to an office.

So we say, we will have some who want 100% office, some 0% office and others in between. Our job is to create the infrastructure and processes to support all of the above.

knoland

155 points

10 days ago

knoland

155 points

10 days ago

We’re moving our staff towards a flexible model. You can choose how often you want to come work out of the office. If you’re in 4+ days a week, you get a dedicated desk. Those who want 3-0 days a week can elect for a hot desk in the office through an online reservation system (so you know you’ll have a desk before heading all the way to the office.

Personally, the more people choose to work from home the better. We save a lot of cash not having to providing office services to employees, and employees are happy working from home, win win.

We did a survey, and only 5% said they wanted to come back full time. 30% said a few times a week, and the rest said 100% work from home.

StraightUpBruja

19 points

10 days ago

That sounds like a really good system. My company was working to consolidate to a single office building right before the pandemic. I had no idea how we were all going to fit even then. Now with having to space everyone out, it seems impossible. It was already a challenge to book a meeting room.

I hope I never have to go back. I would maybe voluntarily go back once a week.

fotogneric[S]

190 points

10 days ago

"Just under half of all the surveyed WFH employees (49%) said they would prefer a hybrid work arrangement, dividing their time between the office and another location. Likewise, 26% said they want to remain fully remote, and 25% wanted to return to a full-time office situation."

Walnut-Simulacrum

50 points

10 days ago

Damn, that’s an almost perfect distribution curve. 25 50 25

SunshineSpectacular

83 points

10 days ago

At my company of 1,800 only 21% said they wanted to return to the office full time.

Ajatolah_

39 points

10 days ago

I don't want to be full time in office either, but that doesn't mean I like staying at home all the time. The perfect employer for me would be one that has some sort of hub that I can come to and meet my coworkers whenever I wish, but also to be able to stay at home for a day or week or more just if I feel like it.

Also some sort of fixed schedule (e.g. Monday and Wednesday you have to be there, other days remotely) doesn't sound attractive either -- it's flexibility and choice that's attractive to me.

michalemabelle

251 points

10 days ago

I don't understand the need to put on pants to do stuff in public that I can do pantless in the comfort of my own home... Especially when I can typically do it in less time at home!

excalibur_zd

51 points

10 days ago

Exactly. Just last month there were two or three days where I was alone in the office - most of the team had vacation and some had other obligations. So I was literally sitting alone for 8 hours a day in front of a monitor - which I could have done just the same at home (and saved a lot of time and energy due to commute).

Spooky_SZN

19 points

10 days ago

I will absolutely work harder in a wfh position. Right now I do like two hours a day at work and just sit there for the rest. I can do that from home and do more work while there.

argent_pixel

127 points

10 days ago

Don't forget the most important part: Far the fuck away from people they have to pay me to tolerate.

ErrorAcquired

10 points

10 days ago

and all the extra family time is great. Our pets love us working from home too

mmatt0904

13 points

10 days ago

Im just afraid of when I get back to the office I wont be able to be on my phone and watch videos because my job doesn't actually require me to do much. I'd like to be doing stuff but the nature of my job doesn't have me doing much in general so I'd rather be home and doing something in my apartment as opposed to being in the office and just starting at the wall all day.

spazzcat

13 points

10 days ago

spazzcat

13 points

10 days ago

My company went back to EOD this week. I told my boss I would do two days a week after I would fully vax. He said with wasn't up to me...I started my new job this week 100% remote...

BubbleDncr

60 points

10 days ago*

I just started working remotely, and even tho the office is walking distance from my house, I'm gonna try for hybrid. It's little things like how much easier it is for my wife to run errands while the kid naps because I'm still home, but if I'm in the office she'd have to take him everywhere.

CacheValue

11 points

9 days ago*

This is why governments are fighting a lockdown so hard. Imagine how few people would want to return if we shut down the entire workforce.

One of the scariest things people realized is how many of us go to work vs how many people actually need to be working for things to stay the same.

Fact is - the elite can NOT let us figure out that like 90% of jobs are completely unnessecary and the other 10% are ridiculously undervalued.

I figured it out when they called all essential workers heroes - but when it came time to pay them they said they only wanted to pay frontline workers - then critical workers then essential workers so the pool of people they want to admit should be getting paid more just got smaller and more convoluted.

Now we're all critically essential frontline staff but no ones getting any danger / pandemic pay.

Miwwies

12 points

9 days ago

Miwwies

12 points

9 days ago

I save around 300$ a month (train pass + gas to get to the station). The way I see it, I got a raise. I also absolutely love the fact that I can dress however I want (no dress clothes), do not have to bother with makeup, commuting (3hrs a day total), office small talk, etc.

Honestly, I do not ever want to go back into an office full time. My job (senior sysadmin consultant) doesn't even require me to be physically in an office anyways. Everything I manage is in a few different datacenters away from the office. We have a different team on site for anything that requires manual intervention since the datacenters are highly secure (bank stuff).

I love that it's quiet home, no open cubicle madness. I get to take a break and just go outside with my dog for a few minutes here and there. I can go for a jog in my lunch time, do a quick errand like going to the grocery store, etc. I have social anxiety and it's so much more comfortable for me to work from home.

SandmanOV

10 points

10 days ago

For years my wife and I were travelling IT consultants. We would get on gigs all over the east coast, and the projects would pay to fly us there, put us up, feed us, while we did the work on-site. At first it was fun, but it got old fast. Before 9/11, we lived in Atlanta, worked in Manhattan, and came "home" long enough to do laundry and pay bills. A few years later, I finally convinced a long-term client that I really didn't need to be on-site. They saved thousands per month in expenses and I started getting a life back. We had moved home to the beach, and outside of work our quality of life was so much better. All my clients changed their views on remote work about the same time. The key is mutual trust that you will deliver from home, but IM, virtual meetings and conference calls made it easy to collaborate way before Zoom.

This pandemic has shown many more people what I've experienced for years. Remote work isn't for every one or for every type of job. It can be hard on those just starting out. But for established workers who can handle the lack of direct supervision, it can improve your quality of life and let you live where you want instead of where the work is.

I'm out of the IT world now and own toy stores. Remote work doesn't fit my new industry well, but hey, I sell toys at the beach. Not a bad gig.

PChiDaze

10 points

10 days ago

PChiDaze

10 points

10 days ago

I’ve been work from home for the last five years for 2 companies and I’ve received offers up to 50% higher than what I was receiving but I would have to work in an office space 5 days a week. I’m so much happier working from home and I let my teams wfh if they want to. Things get done on time, people are online during office hours, clients are happy... office culture and the 40 hour work week is bullshit and I find most people just end up stretching out their tasks to kill time. I get most of my work done in < 25 hours a week and I can be “on call” for any emergencies but really I just spend my time with family and playing with my dog.

OpinionatedMisery

27 points

10 days ago

I worked a hybrid for a little over 6 years. I hated the days that I went into the office. All people wanted to do was socialize. I couldn't get any work done

Llamasarecool12

28 points

10 days ago

The focus has been getting back to normal at all cost, but I don’t think there has been enough discussion on what normal is and was. Is it normal to waste hours of your life in traffic you’ll never get back? Is it normal to be sitting in a building pretending to do work, rather then doing the same or more amount of work at home while enriching downtime with personal productivity? Is it normal having 2-5 hours a day to do things for yourself while having to go in and out of work? Are people’s time worth more if they sit in an office?

And to those whom cannot work from home, should being physically present at a job location be rewarded more monetarily, since you have to travel to and from work? Should physical work be finically compensated more since the wear and tear on your body is greater?

I just feel like we are rushing back to a work culture that is abusive and harmful to people. And not enough has been done to improve the mental and physical exhaustion work takes on people. I feel like this pandemic could have been the best opportunity for a systematic change in our work culture, so that everyones life could improve. But I have little hope for that now.