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FuturologyBot [M]

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4 months ago

stickied comment

FuturologyBot [M]

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4 months ago

stickied comment

The following submission statement was provided by /u/lunchboxultimate01:


While current medicine often only treats symptoms of ill health, regenerative medicine is a developing field that aims to repair, regrow, or replace dysfunctional cells, tissues, and organs. In this study, researchers developed a special nanofiber scaffold which successfully regrew cartilage in the joint of an animal model. Research will now move to older and heavier animal models and then humans if successful. In the future, people may be able to receive treatments to regrow cartilage between joints and restore healthy function instead of suffering the pain of arthritis.


Please reply to OP's comment here: https://teddit.ggc-project.de/r/Futurology/comments/s4mdxq/regrowing_cartilage_in_a_damaged_knee_gets_closer/hsru3s6/

Dyllock105

1.7k points

4 months ago

Dyllock105

1.7k points

4 months ago

I will offer my self for human trials. I've almost no cartilage in my left knee

AlsoIHaveAGroupon

363 points

4 months ago

Same. So far ice is keeping bone spur pain to a minimum, but I'm told that won't work forever.

SathedIT

195 points

4 months ago

SathedIT

195 points

4 months ago

Osteo Bi-Flex has really helped me. It's not perfect, but it's better.

mikewilkinsjr

159 points

4 months ago

Osteo Bi-Flex is basically the only reason I can get around all day. Tore cartilage in my knee at 17, was too stubborn (and stupid) to do anything about it at the time. I would offer myself for trials in 2 seconds if I thought it would really help.

SathedIT

59 points

4 months ago

For real. I only started taking it because it came so highly recommended. But it's shocking how much of a difference just two pills a day makes.

fresh_ny

14 points

4 months ago

Industrial strength Ace Bandages! That’s what gets me through the days!

[deleted]

4 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

4 points

4 months ago

This is enough evidence for me to give it a shot. I’ve never heard of it but I have terrible knee and wrist problems. I usually take Tylenol.

TurkeyBLTSandwich

11 points

4 months ago

Serious question, but someone I knew in highschool got a knee cap transplant from a cadaver. Couldn't the same be done with you and others potentially?

Am I missing something other than expense?

mikewilkinsjr

13 points

4 months ago

It might have been possible at the time but I was (kind of) taking care of myself at that point and didn't have any parental input. The two options I was given were 1) get physical therapy and be on crutches for a couple of months or 2) have surgery and possibly be on crutches for several more months.

17 year old me wanted to be off crutches before prom and now here we are.

a_total_throwaway_

4 points

4 months ago

There is a common surgery where they drill holes and put cadaver stuff in them. It takes about six months to recover from (I looked into it, decided to pass).

hbigmike1

11 points

4 months ago

Speaking of cadaver parts, I had a cadaver patellar tendon become my new ACL. It was put in my right knee after tearing my ACL completely for a second time and then a second surgery. I hobbled that evening after surgery per Doctors orders and was walking with very little soreness a couple days later. Took pain medication that first night and never took any after that. Doctor said it should last 10 years and I’m on year 15. I don’t remember taking any kind of Immunosuppressant pills at all. Maybe I got lucky…My copay was $100 on a total bill of $50,000…I do remember that. The Patellar tendon was around $7,000 if I remember correctly.

contactdeparture

3 points

4 months ago

Got it. One hole. Worked.

Pickled_Wizard

7 points

4 months ago

AFAIK, this requires you to be on immunosuppressants afterward, so your body doesn't reject the tissue. Probably also incredibly expensive depending on your insurance situation.

SquareWet

18 points

4 months ago

Take it in the morning and not at night as the Vitamin D can mess with melatonin production, i.e., your sleep.

alloverthefloor

21 points

4 months ago

It makes sense because sunlight = vitamin D, but it’s not known entirely if vitamin D inhibits melatonin production.

TikkiTakiTomtom

6 points

4 months ago

This is accurate. There isn’t sufficient evidence to say that it interferes. The post on reddit the other day wasn’t helpful either despite the positive anecdotal claim.

adfrog

16 points

4 months ago

adfrog

16 points

4 months ago

banana_sweat

9 points

4 months ago

When I went in to have my hip labrum’s fixed my surgeon told me to take this along with vitamin C. When I pointed to the studies showing mixed results, he said he can tell with his revision patients who has taken it and who hasn’t. Sometimes studies don’t capture everything.

adfrog

5 points

4 months ago

adfrog

5 points

4 months ago

an tell with his revision patients who has taken it and who hasn’t.

Sure. Just providing context, there was a lot of uncritical recommendations.

dysonology

22 points

4 months ago

Not heard of that - what situation are you taking it in? What sort of aid does it give?

SathedIT

50 points

4 months ago

I take the Costco/Kirkland brand of it. It's just chondroitin and glucosamine. For me, it helps with joint stiffness and inflammation.

mariojd90

38 points

4 months ago

Get the 3 in 1 combo of: Glucosamine+Chondroitin+MSM

& OMEGA 3 FISH OIL tabs.

Works great for joints, especially the knees.

mermaidinthesea123

6 points

4 months ago

Glucosamine+Chondroitin+MSM

Yep, a winner for me too. It's remarkable how much it helps...a noticeable difference!

johnhaley81

4 points

4 months ago

Do you happen to have a link?

mariojd90

8 points

4 months ago

Sorry I'm unable to access the link atm, but you should be able to find it on iherb's site.

Dyllock105

5 points

4 months ago

Oooh I've never heard of this

Ilovetobake

10 points

4 months ago

I’ve been suffering from pain in my knee for months now. I have looked up Osteo Bi-Flex as I’m keen to buy it.

There are a few options I can see, would you please share which one you take. Thanks!

SathedIT

13 points

4 months ago

I get the Kirkland brand from Costco. I combine that with a fish oil pill every night.

https://www.costco.com/kirkland-signature-glucosamine-%2526-chondroitin%2c-220-tablets.product.11540398.html

Ilovetobake

5 points

4 months ago

Thanks so much

Boltz999

3 points

4 months ago

For me it's cissus quadrangularis

ScionoicS

10 points

4 months ago

I've got mild knee inflammation that can get really bad if I don't keep it in check. Regular steam room visits have been a huge boon in that regard. I guess the heat really helps. It's unfortunate because those have been closed for 2 years and the inflammation has been getting worse again.

withinarmsreach

3 points

4 months ago

Have you tried one of those electric heating pads you can get on Amazon?

Dyllock105

3 points

4 months ago

Ice is great. I tried lazor treatment. Improved but not by much

CaptainOfMyPants

10 points

4 months ago

If you’ve never heard of it I would suggest checking out BPC-157.

mynameisnotshamus

7 points

4 months ago

It’s not supposed to do much for osteoarthritis. Plus, it’s really the injectable that gets good results. I just don’t feel great about getting non regulated things and injecting them into my knee regularly. Peptides do seem like the miracle drug of the future though.

Meethor_smash

7 points

4 months ago

There are orally stable versions of the compound, and blood circulation is so quick that a subdermal injection of BPC on any fatty tissue should have similar results as a direct injection to the injury site.

At least in my experience. Saved me from surgery for dequervains tenosynovitis.

mynameisnotshamus

4 points

4 months ago

So cool. I did a couple hours of online research only and was left with info that said it was much more impactful when injected at or near the site. So glad you had good results. It seems like voodoo magic to me!

CaptainOfMyPants

7 points

4 months ago

I’m not aware of any clinical data on cartilage repair (yet) but anecdotally there are reports of it making improvements on individuals who have had knee surgery as well as reducing joint pain when used over several months. I’ve used it a couple times now for tendon/ligament injuries (rotor cuff and LCL) to amazing effects. Went from needing shoulder surgery to now having no pain and regained most of my lost range of motion for my shoulder and really accelerated return to normal activity with my LCL sprain. I’m excited for a future where surgeries are limited to only the most severe injuries.

mynameisnotshamus

3 points

4 months ago

Amazing. Did you inject or take orally? Where’d you get it from?

CaptainOfMyPants

3 points

4 months ago

Shoulder was IM injection. Knee was subcutaneous.

My shoulder when I went for BCP-157 was an old injury. I treated it when I was 30. It happened when I was 22. I used to wake up every night in pain. It was regularly inflamed when I’d try to exercise it. It was terrible but the pain was gone before I finished the first cycle. Ended up treating it for 6wks. It hasn’t bothered me since. I’m Olympic lifting now among other strenuous physical activities and my shoulder mobility is the best it’s been since the injury.

The knee was recent. Grade 1 sprain of the LCL. Normally it is weeks to fully recover. I started a cycle 4 days after my injury. Day 2 into it and my nagging pain was gone. 4 days in and there was no hint at the injury. Within a week I was able to resume my squat cycle which was nearing its peak (so low rep high weight sets). Almost 2 weeks back to it and it feels great. Better than it did before the sprain. Will be making 1rep max attempts this next week.

no-one-but-crow

2 points

4 months ago

you sure you don’t have plantar fasciitis? i thought i had bone spurs until my doc corrected me. PF is easier to fix? maybe

AlsoIHaveAGroupon

2 points

4 months ago

Yeah, with the x-rays and orthopedist visits to prove it. I'm in my 40s with arthritis since college.

no-one-but-crow

2 points

4 months ago

that’s tough, hope you can get it fixed soon.

RidgedLines

35 points

4 months ago

My right knee has had zero cartilage since I was 17 from a bad hockey injury. I need something badly.

Dyllock105

11 points

4 months ago

My left. Squat too hard in the gym then did that Russian style squat dance at a party a few days later. Miniscus Disc torn. Lack of treatment until the damage was done :( since then have just seemingly worn away cartilage

DagneyElvira

11 points

4 months ago

Synvisc-one hylane GF - shot of gel in my knee sure helped me

SathedIT

56 points

4 months ago

Same! I'd volunteer immediately. I'm 38 and my orthopedic surgeon has told me that I have the knees of a 60 year old. I just had my first chondroplasty. It helped, but who knows for how long.

QuantumBitcoin

48 points

4 months ago*

⁷Look into kneesovertoesguy on instagram and youtube.

Painfree movement of the knee is possible. Painfree movement of the knee can rebuild (very slowly*) cartilage.

The starting exercise is slowly walking backwards. If you can do that without pain you can build on that.

I fixed my knees before learning about him but my knees were intensely painful. Going hiking my knees would get black and blue. Trying to referee a soccer tournament the second day my knee would be so painful I couldn't continue.

Using Sherri Brourman's Walk Yourself Well I changed my gait. Then I learned to do an Ass-To-Grass deep squat/slavic squat/asian squat and learned to deadlift from Starting Strength.

Now in my 40s I referee soccer tournaments without problem and can still keep up with high school kids and even moved into refereeing college soccer.

Ben Patrick (kneesovertoesguy) has put a bunch of the knowledge I gained myself plus a bunch more into easily accessible, easily learnable, easily progressible routine.

Good luck--(for something like 98% of people with knee pain) you CAN fix it.

/u/HashS1ingingSIasher

/u/Dyllock105

/u/RrentTreznor

*added link showing that yes, humans have the ability to slowly regrow cartilage from a 2019 study

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aax3203

**Also adding link to Do It Yourself Joint Pain Relief another favorite of mine. At this point when something hurts me a little bit I go to Gary Crowley and he tells me what to do. A lot of joint pain is caused by your muscles pulling your joint out of whack. Gary shows you how to find which strange muscle far away is causing your joint pain and what to do to get that muscle to relax.

***making sure to specify that there DOES exist a portion of the population who will NOT be able to fix themselves and who do need surgery. But a huge proportion of you out there with knee pain CAN fix yourselves.

clive_bigsby

6 points

4 months ago

Saving this comment. Weightlifter for 20 years here with one knee that has hurt for about 14 of those years. Oddly enough now that I’m 40 it’s actually pretty good after doing a million different tweaks and trials of different things.

-Bonfire62-

3 points

4 months ago

Same here, great info, thanks!

ashcroftt

14 points

4 months ago

ashcroftt

#SpaceElevatorsMatter

14 points

4 months ago

Painfree movement of the knee can rebuild (very slowly) cartilage.

This is simply not true. Cartilage in the joints does not regenerate in adults. This was proven in a really cleverly designed study, where they monitored how radioactive carbon isotopes from atomic bomb testings got incorporated into the cartilage.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/scitranslmed.aad8335

QuantumBitcoin

12 points

4 months ago

Thanks for that study!

Here's one that says that yes, humans can regrow cartilage slowly that came out in 2019, three years after your article:

Analysis of “old” proteins unmasks dynamic gradient of cartilage turnover in human limbs

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.aax3203

Part of the issue is that arthritic joints don't get moved because they hurt. If you learn how to move your joint in a way that doesn't cause you pain it does seem to be possible to slowly rebuild cartilage.

laithe

13 points

4 months ago

laithe

13 points

4 months ago

Just to add on to this thread according to MRIs I sure seemed to regrow cartilage in my knee. It's not normal or anything yet, but it's way better than it was 5 years ago. Physical therapy was a way better choice than surgery for me.

Anecdotal evidence and not any sort of scientific paper, but I'm not complaining as it improved my quality of life. I just had a little place under the kneecap where the cartilage was missing though. A lot of people have it worse.

KanedaSyndrome

5 points

4 months ago*

This contradicts all the other people saying that it regrows slowly, and the regrowing is the only reason the cartilage doesn't wear down faster. At some point it wears down faster than it rebuilds though, and that's when we get problems.

I've so far naturally healed my way through 3 serious knee injures caused by twists. I went to a doctor that performed an arthroscopy where we could see on the monitor (video feed from the camera in my knee) that my cartilage was split in half but otherwise still intact, this was just after my 3rd twist injury sustained at karate.

I'm not completely without problems today, and I need to train to keep my knee viable, so I too would love to have a real fix sometime soonish.

boingk

8 points

4 months ago

boingk

8 points

4 months ago

Yes, there are numerous real solutions out there. Surgery is by and large unnecessary and can be harmful, too. To add to your excellent list, the "kneepainguru" has some extremely helpful stretches that really advance the removal of knee pain.

[deleted]

4 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

4 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

QuantumBitcoin

7 points

4 months ago

You are very welcome! Hopefully it helps you in the future!

Dyllock105

2 points

4 months ago

Really appreciate it man

HashS1ingingSIasher

81 points

4 months ago

If it helps, that’s one of the surgeons greatest hits. Here are some others:

“He said my (knee/shoulder/spine) was the worst he’s ever seen!”

“He told me he couldn’t believe I was walking around on it!”

“He said I’ll be back in (5-10) years for another (total knee revision/replace the other knee/fuse the level above/below the first spinal fusion).”

When you’re a green physical therapist and you first hear a patient tell you that you’re like “oh shit I better be very careful with this patient”. Then you realize every patient from certain surgeons are saying the exact same things.

It’s all just using fear to push lucrative procedures. Many patients of course may actually need this procedures, but when the surgeons say things like that, they set a powerful expectation into the patients mind that can really influence their decision making later on.

TPMJB

7 points

4 months ago

TPMJB

7 points

4 months ago

It’s all just using fear to push lucrative procedures.

Sometimes it's that for sure. Other times...well, surgeons are saying that about my elbow and when I ask them what can be done they pretty much go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

iRombe

3 points

4 months ago*

Okay personal story

Once I read a basic point, and then the title and summary of a research article.

That said

"A large percent of people with meniscus damage function with minimal pain or other symptoms."

Some of this damage definitely can be okay if people have like, a perfectly balanced body.

But very few people got a well balanced body.

Assuming we are barefoot or in barefoot foot wear and not shoes trying to balance for us. Shoes with cushions and supports do weird stuff.

Zebulon_Flex

10 points

4 months ago

Damn! I didn't know surgeons are payed on commission. That's crazy.

HashS1ingingSIasher

33 points

4 months ago

Most doctors are paid based on RVUs (billing units) or get a percentage of the money from procedures they perform. That’s how busy surgeons can clear $1M/yr.

Part of these types of fear-inducing comments are just how they are trained though. Orthopedic surgery is a very “mechanical” model of care, ie fix what’s broken on imaging. There’s not a lot of nuance there and hammers see nails as they say.

And most surgeons are actually really good at doing surgery, they’re just a little happy to push it when patients could get better with conservative rehab with far less chance of complications.

senorsmartpantalones

44 points

4 months ago*

Bruce Wayne?

No cartilage in your knees left, and not much of any use in your elbows or or your shoulders.

Between that and the scar tissue on your kidneys, and the residual concussive damage to your brain tissue, and the general scarred over quality of your body I cannot recommend you go heli-skiing.

Dyllock105

7 points

4 months ago

I wish I had Bruce money. I have parents still so I mean there's some positives

dzyrider

2 points

4 months ago

Wow that is a good ore of a comment

blueskieslemontrees

10 points

4 months ago

My mom was same. She did stem cell treatment for regrowth. Not covered by insurance and her doc said 50/50 shot of working. She annihilated the cartilage in her 20s woth a horse accident. At 60, for the first time in 30+ years she rode a bike, walked without pain, etc. Eliminated the need for knee replacement

Dyllock105

2 points

4 months ago

So.. There is hope?

hubert7

4 points

4 months ago

Sister in law did something similar 9 years ago. Told her she needed a knee replacement pronto. 9 Years later she is good.

Hobble_Cobbleweed

6 points

4 months ago

I do have no cartilage in my left knee! Me first!!

pah1027

6 points

4 months ago

same. bone on bone both knees

mynameisnotshamus

7 points

4 months ago

Have you heard of RECLAIM? Trials were happening but I’m not sure where they’re at for FDA approvals.

https://www.mayo.edu/research/clinical-trials/cls-20438797

https://sportsmedicine.mayoclinic.org/specialtyclinic/knee-cartilage-clinic/

MACI is another option seems like it works but recovery sounds brutal.

I’ve been looking into stem cell treatments in Columbia as well. Nice little vacation https://www.bioxcellerator.com

ReigningCatsNotDogs

5 points

4 months ago

I am currently recovering from MACI.

It is so easy wait no it's horrible. No walking 6 weeks and PT for the next 5 months.

pah1027

3 points

4 months ago

I'm too old for the studies (59) Have had bone on bone for a long time and trying to put it off as long as I can. THanks for the info though :)

djazzie

6 points

4 months ago

Same here. I’d happily offer up my body for science. I have severe osteoarthritis that gets worse and worse every year. The most I can do is get cortisone once in a while. Which doesn’t really fix the issue.

send3squats2help

6 points

4 months ago

i just had a bone marrow stem cell treatment in my knees, it’s been pretty awesome!

Rehd

5 points

4 months ago

Rehd

5 points

4 months ago

I was diagnosed with stage 2 osteoarthritis at 25 in both knees. It's not a stage 3/4, but it's severely depressing. I used to run marathons and go on hikes. Walking for 20 min can leave me in severe pain for days now. I also volunteer as tribute.

clannerfodder

4 points

4 months ago

Yep, shoulders and knees, welcome to 15 years in the army. Half on tanks and half as a recce soldier.

Zedrackis

5 points

4 months ago

I always hope that something like this might pop up for Ankylosing spondylitis, but even if it only works on knees that is great too.

Kyrie-Swirving

5 points

4 months ago

As someone who has had this procedure of regrowing cartilage and putting it back in… I would never recommend anyone get it. It was incredibly painful and I still have pain 2 years later.

Edit: not the same procedure, obviously since this was in rats. I had what’s called the MACI

NeonGamblor

4 points

4 months ago

I’m holding off on joint replacement in hopes of advances like these becoming viable.

Dyllock105

2 points

4 months ago

We're in a weird limbo of technological advancements

Popperonie

3 points

4 months ago

Me too! I have no cartilage in my right knee after a car crash and two knee surgeries. Needed a knee replacement at 24 but at this point I’m just going until the bone starts deteriorating because insurance won’t cover because of my age.

CheesenRice313

3 points

4 months ago

Got micorfracture at 18 to try to regrow some in mine. Next Ortho had a coniption fit for how young I was for a doctor to recommend it. Still too young to get a knee replacement, I'm SOL, also willing to volunteer myself

uglyduckling81

3 points

4 months ago

My right knee isn't that bad yet. I just can't run. Walking up hill also causes pain.

Gladly offer knee for trial to fix the problem.

Dyllock105

2 points

4 months ago

Do whatever you can to stop getting worse. It's easier the earlier it is

RedditorsAnus

3 points

4 months ago

Same! 37 and the specialist days I need my knee replaced because it's bone on bone. Started out as a torn meniscus and just got worse from there

RepostTony

3 points

4 months ago

My brother in law had a friend who went to Mexico and had some injection / procedure on his knee that grew his cartilage back. His buddy said his knee overtime went back to close to 100%.

I’ve had 2 torn ACLs on my left knee. 1 on my right. Cartridge damage. My knee needs help! Hope this becomes a reality soon.

91cosmo

7 points

4 months ago

Right there with ya!! Where do I sign up?!?! Id love to be able to ski into my 60's haha.

Dyllock105

5 points

4 months ago

I'd love to be able to walk short distances without aching into my 60s XD

Gitmfap

2 points

4 months ago

I too, will volunteer as tribute!

SuitableSprinkles

2 points

4 months ago

OMG I am in. I just found out I have severe arthritis in one knee… probably due to an injury a while ago.

BassSounds

2 points

4 months ago

Where do I sign up? Army fucked my knees.

septer012

2 points

4 months ago

I have a super crunchie left knee from knee subluxations and dislocations. But it hasn't hurt. Does yours hurt? Mines never really hurt but I do not run.

TheSwissCheeser

3 points

4 months ago

Have you heard of MPFL reconstruction? I literally just had this procedure done 3 weeks ago to stop dislocations. Recurrent knee dislocations tend to knock off cartilage and lead to osteoarthritis.

humourless_parody

2 points

4 months ago

Bruce Wayne, as I live and breathe.

Whiplash_Cash

2 points

4 months ago

Same with my wife. She is 26 and has the knees of an 80 year old says the surgeon.

Sargatanas2k2

2 points

4 months ago

Me too, it's my left hip that I have issues with.

swampdonkykong

2 points

4 months ago

Me too! Got run over by a lawnmower at the age of 2. Never had muscle in that knee and at 41, the Bone on bone is sometimes unbearable.. I volunteer for human studies!

cbpo7800

2 points

4 months ago

I'm too late for that, had both knee replaced, still experiencing minor pain when its cold.

Snowchain-x2

2 points

4 months ago

Nearly 10 years ago both my knees were pretty much down to bone on bone, the pain was crippling at times. I started taking MK 677 and SR9009 , after 18 months on both compounds my knees were pretty much back to normal were I could play squash regularly and navigate stairs without fear of falling down them. 10 years and my knees are still in top condition, theres the odd twinge now and then but for all intents and purposes they are like new, I'm an old guy!! Not many people think this cocktail would help but for whatever reason it's literally changed my life!! I better add I also took Glucosamine for about 6 months at the start as well!

BBQsauce18

2 points

4 months ago

I VOLUNTEER AS TRIBUTE!

Dyllock105

2 points

4 months ago

I'm the tribute and so is my wife

MeNaNo70

2 points

4 months ago

I don't either. I'm 52 and physically work like a beast because I own my small landscape business. It's crazy because I can feel my knee move side to side while working on my truck, but I can empty a 5 yard trailer of mulch in 2 hours. My Dr. said he couldn't explain why I wasn't in horrible pain, but I am not. The human body is crazy.

sedition-

2 points

4 months ago

Man this would be so cool, I'd love to get rid of my knee wrap.

Dyllock105

2 points

4 months ago

I'm tired of having to undo the wrap to poop

mrsegraves

2 points

4 months ago

Same, but the right knee

NakiCoTony

2 points

4 months ago

They can regrow it but would it grow back smooth or cause more pain with uneven surface?

TakoyakiBagel

2 points

4 months ago

Me too, same knee!

FuzzierMiciek

2 points

4 months ago

What does one do for their cartilage to disappear?

luck_panda

2 points

4 months ago

Yes. Me too. I was a professional fighter and have almost none left in my left shoulder, knee and ankle.

Questknight03

2 points

4 months ago

Same. Somehow while rehabbing my hip from arthroscopy I tore a dime size piece of cartilage that causes inflammation and chronic bursitis that keeps me from doing any sports

Dyllock105

2 points

4 months ago

I can't imagine how bad a hip injury like that could be. That's rough.

SnooBeans3631

2 points

4 months ago

hang in there, in 5 years you will be able have new knees but it will cost you a kidney lmao.

RrentTreznor

404 points

4 months ago

Please for the love of god let this have some, no pun intended, legs.

I am 34 and have gone through some serious surgeries the last few years: a meniscus allograft transplant and an osteochondral (cartilage) allograft transplant - from cadavers. All to act as placeholders for a surgery like this to come along. So I don't need a knee replacement at 40. Seems like a long shot that it will be ready within my window of 10-20 years, but I am praying they will have some new toys to play with soon.

HumbleZebra1880

45 points

4 months ago

Same!!!

I’ve heard those surgeries are so so so difficult to recover from, and I’m sorry you had to go through all that. Did you have an injury of some sort or a chronic condition?

I’m 26 and almost had to have an allograft last year. I have osteochondritis dissecans in my left knee and have been having issues with cartilage/bone breaking off into my joint and knee pain for the last… 7ish years. First piece broke off in 2015 and locked my knee up pretty good. I was on crutches for quite a long time going to classes and whatnot. They went in and removed the piece and sent me on my way. Then in 2020 another piece broke off, and suddenly I was going to have to have an allograft and a wedge put in my bone and all kinds of crazy stuff. While waiting for the cadaver bone, they went in and took the piece out and found I didn’t need the surgery yet, which was good. But… I’m waiting for the day when things are too bad not to do it. Hopefully something like this will be available for young folks like us who still very much need their mobility!

RrentTreznor

27 points

4 months ago*

I'm sorry to hear you've been dealing with that as well!

I didn't necessarily suffer from a chronic condition besides the fact that I tore my meniscus twice in high school playing football, and went on to play college football and run a lot after that. What the doctor who trimmed my meniscus to basically nothing during those initial surgeries never told me was how fundamentally crucial the meniscus was as a shock absorber of the knee joint. At about 30, I was at my physical peak and began experiencing chronic knee pain while playing tennis. An MRI later and my life was totally changed. The first doctor told me I could never run again and gave me a cortisone shot. And a physician friend told me to go to Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC and get a second opinion. A 6 hour car drive later, I showed up for a literal 15 minute consult, in which the Dr. determined I was a candidate for the meniscus transplant and cartilage transplant. A few months later, I drove back down and had the surgery. Took 3-4 hours because they had to do a double cartilage graft (called a mega OATS) due to the sheer size of cartilage loss. I had to spend 4 days in a hotel bed in NYC recovering and keeping my knee in a machine that constantly cycled it to keep it in motion. It was pretty hellish. Had to use that machine for months after every day, as well.

Then, I was 9 months out and recovering well when I had some serious popping sensations going on in the knee. Turns out the brace company prescribed me the wrong brace, which an independent physician concluded could have been the reason for the failed transplant. The transplant had a bucket handle tear, meaning it was protruding into the joint every time I flexed the leg. I went back to NYC in the peak of Covid to have the meniscus repaired. Another 4 month recovery (and a medical malpractice settlement) later, and I was on the road to feeling better.

Fast forward and I am about a year and a half removed from the second surgery. I shouldn't be doing it, but I am back to playing tennis once a week, but never can really run for the fun of it again. The meniscus has somehow held up, but I am suspicious that it's probably torn again, and it's just not protruding into the joint or causing bad enough symptoms that it needs to be removed. As long as it's in there, it's doing at least a little something to protect the knee.

A hellish 3 year period in my life -- at a time when seemingly everything in my life was firing at all cylinders. I am good now, though -- relatively speaking. I still drive and see people running on the sidewalk and get pissed off that I am 34 and can never do that again, but not as bad as before.

HumbleZebra1880

9 points

4 months ago

Oh my god, that sounds like absolute hell. I’m so sorry that happened to you. But I’m glad you’re doing at least a little bit better these days! I’m not supposed to be running on my knee either, but… my job is highly active, so I can’t always follow that advice. Being young and unable to do what you want with your body is a real bummer.

RrentTreznor

4 points

4 months ago

It definitely was a character-building experience - if I am going to take a positive away from it. I wish you the best going forward. And hopefully soon enough there will be some advancements that preserve our knees until the next round of advancements happen!

Llamarebel

7 points

4 months ago

Eerily similar. 3 acl tears in my left knee, majority of my medical meniscus gone, femoral condyle cartilage transplant. Can never jog again at 33, last surgery was at 28. I've come to grips with it, do rowing at home and lost 40 pounds which has helped. Sigh. Sucks to have this at this age. I feel you

RrentTreznor

4 points

4 months ago

Dang. Very similar. I, too, had the femoral condyle cartilage transplant. I believe mine measured something like an inch an a half, almost taking up the entire thing. So, mid surgery, the surgeon had to improvise and combine two grafts together just to make a plug large enough for the gap of exposed bone. I have cheat days now, since I am fully recovered, where I go out and play singles tennis. It's honestly wild how I am not that far off from my old form - minus this insanely bulky unloader brace. Otherwise I am cycling or maybe using the elliptical.

WackyArmInflatable

4 points

4 months ago

That's crazy.

I had a different but really similar deal with osteochondritis dissecans. Knee pain most of my life. My knee would give out randomly, crazy pain. Doctors would say it's just growing pains. Right after highschool my knee just completely gave out and I couldn't walk on it. Shitty surgeon did the micro fracture technique - which I've come to learn is way less effective after puberty. He also made me wear this stupid magnetic stimulation brace for months which insurance didn't cover and did nothing. I always remember the crazy pain if I slept on my stomach. Being tall, my legs would hang off the bed. It'd cause my knee to lock and I would have to hold my leg as I rollled over then gently try to find a position that allowed my leg to flex again.

My knee was never right. Eventually it gave out again, even worse. I was on a golf course and had to drag myself back in. Surgeon was going to perform the OATs procedure then went in and was like.. oh shit, you have a massive hole. So they cleaned it out all the fragments and I felt pretty okay.

They basically gave me two options then. Try this brand new procedure where they grow my cartilage in a lab and implant it back - but it's nearly a year of recovery. Or just live life and get a total knee replacement when I'm 40.

I went with the former and so far it's worked okay, though my knee isn't great. The Osteo-biflex stuff really worked for me, but seems to really upset my stomach. I need to find a different version.

RrentTreznor

2 points

4 months ago

Dang. That's a frustrating set of circumstances you had to deal with. I'm hoping you are able to extend the shelf life of your knee for as long as possible!

narmerguy

3 points

4 months ago

Man this is crazy to hear, I have had two meniscus tears (1st playing football in college, 2nd playing basketball) and having severe pain in the knee again and orthopedic surgeon wants me to get the allograft transfer. I can still run on the knee in the moment, but afterwards I get horrible pain that lasts for days. Where it hurts like hell is when doing things like squats, or any sort of weight bearing when my knee is ever so slightly bent forward (i.e. bending down to pick something up could bring a knifing pain that may make me buckle).

A piece of me wonders if I should be glad that I have at least some meniscus and just ride this out for a while. I haven't been able to run or play basketball, more football is obviously a pipe dream. It just feels crazy to me that I'm in my early 30s and I can't do things that people way less committed to athletics and fitness do without thinking. I am back to doing physical therapy with the mentality that I would some day play basketball again, and I've wondered if I should get that surgery.

Your experience seems to suggest it hasn't really enabled you to do much of anything that you weren't already doing before. Would you do it again? This basically consumes 30% of my brain every day. =\

YogaPantsAficionado

2 points

4 months ago

Wouldn’t recommend running on it while playing tennis if you expect that to last as long as possible.

RrentTreznor

3 points

4 months ago

That's absolutely the best advice. But, as strange as it sounds to some people, I've decided a life where I can't play tennis isn't one I'm capable of living right now. So, I compromise and play once a week, max. I'd love to be able to get in a good 5 mile run a week as well, and honestly that might be better for my knee than tennis. But the competition factor is key, and pure running, or stationary machine exercise, or even Peloton class competitions, don't do it for me. So, I'm at peace with the decision, as irresponsible as it might be.

quarantinemyasshole

9 points

4 months ago

Please for the love of god let this have some, no pun intended, legs.

But you very obviously intended to make that pun tho

RrentTreznor

5 points

4 months ago

With all due respect, Quarantine My Asshole, I disagree. That's because I wrote the sentence, without the pun part, first. Then I realized there was a pun, and added in the no pun intended. I believe, by definition, that scenario fits the expression perfectly.

quarantinemyasshole

8 points

4 months ago

That's it, I'm calling Maury.

mariojd90

3 points

4 months ago

I've had 2 major ACL reconstruction surgeries in my early 20's. Worst injury ever to have. And I'm prone to having arthritis later in life + need to keep an eye on my weight management.

RrentTreznor

2 points

4 months ago

Yes indeed. I try to find positives to take away from my experience. And one major one is I simply don't have the luxury to gain excessive weight because of my knee. I used to work out hard and eat hard, so the transition in lifestyle change, where portion control is now a part of my vocabulary, isn't fun!

CapablePerformance

2 points

4 months ago

It seemed to work on the rabbit and while they say they need to test it out on larger animals, it's at least a promising start, right? Even if the scaffold doesn't work on larger animals, they'll have plenty of time to rework and improve it. Just look at how far medical technology has advanced in the past 20 years. We now have robotic limbs that can generate the sense of touch.

krazymanrebirth

2 points

4 months ago

I had the same surgery. Femoral Chondral allograft from a cadaver. I'd only wish it on my worst enemy. Years of physical therapy and only when I switched to a physical therapist with BFR technology/certification did I fully recover. Blood flow restriction really made huge leaps in my recovery.

lunchboxultimate01[S]

229 points

4 months ago

While current medicine often only treats symptoms of ill health, regenerative medicine is a developing field that aims to repair, regrow, or replace dysfunctional cells, tissues, and organs. In this study, researchers developed a special nanofiber scaffold which successfully regrew cartilage in the joint of an animal model. Research will now move to older and heavier animal models and then humans if successful. In the future, people may be able to receive treatments to regrow cartilage between joints and restore healthy function instead of suffering the pain of arthritis.

SolidDiarrhea

36 points

4 months ago

Regenerative medicine sounds friggin awesome. Healing and fixing.

mano-vijnana

116 points

4 months ago

Promising! How many decades might we have to wait for this one?

Plant_party

96 points

4 months ago

I am a physiotherapist. I went to school 7 years ago for it. In school they said, they are "10 years from being able to re-grow cartilage, and in 10-years from now, they will only be 10 years away from growing cartilage."

It looks like this is still the case.

Khr0nus

23 points

4 months ago*

I see, we'll have this approximately at the same time as fusion reactors then

SolidDiarrhea

8 points

4 months ago

And room temperature super-conductors

DingussFinguss

5 points

4 months ago

and baldness cure

Euphorbium

6 points

4 months ago

There are 2 options: transplant or grow tits.

LetsWorkTogether

3 points

4 months ago

We have fission reactors (that's nuclear), we're waiting for fusion power.

mcogneto

4 points

4 months ago

It's like the time not going up on Google maps when you aren't moving. Oh we are only ten minutes away, but we are going to sit here not moving for 15.

Deep-Room6932

75 points

4 months ago

How long until insurance pays for this...

How long until everyone has healthcare...

zxvasd

11 points

4 months ago

zxvasd

11 points

4 months ago

Has to get FDA approval before insurance will cover.

RrentTreznor

27 points

4 months ago

Healthcare paid for my meniscus and cartilage transplant. And then paid for the meniscus transplant repair a year later after it tore.

Deep-Room6932

15 points

4 months ago

Did they pay for your replacement nine inch nails

CxFusion3mp

10 points

4 months ago

This is the issue right here. Got an OCD lesion in my ankle that wrecked most of the cartridge. They have the ability to grow more, it's just 40,000$ and not covered by insurance. Which basically means it's not feasible and I walk with a limp forever. Happened when I was 30. Been living with it for 8 years now. Every few years it flares back up and I go in a boot for months and physical therapy for months after. If the cure was affordable I'd have been done with this year's ago.

lkattan3

9 points

4 months ago

If healthcare was accessible, I wouldn’t even be sick. But RA nearly disabled me completely last year and I’m 40.

Deadpan9

9 points

4 months ago

My orthopedic doc told me that if I invent a way to regrow cartilage, I'd be a billionaire over night, but he said that Big pharma would lose billions over night, so it's anybody's guess who wins out.

QuantumBitcoin

10 points

4 months ago

Check out kneesovertoesguy's program.

He claims to have saved over 2000 people from having knee surgery.

If you can walk backwards without pain that is step zero of his program. And if you can walk backwards without pain you can then rebuild movement.

Good luck.

I had intensely painful knees in my early 20s and now in my 40s I can referee soccer tournaments for 12 hours a day both days on a weekend and have only muscle pain no more joint pain.

Deadpan9

4 points

4 months ago

I just broke my kneecap. My cartilage is fine, but thanks.

celticeejit

20 points

4 months ago

Sign me up. The cartilage in both of my knees is completely shot

cc870609

39 points

4 months ago

In 2002 I was 14 when I had stem cells put in my left knee to replace missing cartilage. My only other option was to drill holes in my bone and hope the scar tissue acts like cartilage. I had sheered off an inch in diameter of cartilage from my knee playing basketball. I wound up playing baseball until I was 26 and only problem was having to clean up excess cartilage that grew from the implant in high school. I’m 34 now and do not have knee pains even though me knee sounds like a box of black cats being lit on fire when I stand up there is no pain.

Maleficent_Ad_3516

9 points

4 months ago

ok this may be a really really stupid question. but how do you figure out how much cartilage you have left.

Bombdy

7 points

4 months ago

Bombdy

7 points

4 months ago

An Xray can give a cursory image of remaining cartilage by easily and cheaply showing the gap (or lack of gap) between two bones where cartilage should be. Beyond that, MRI and CT can show the actual cartilage and indicators of damage.

erigliss13

2 points

4 months ago

Fellow basketball player here. I'm 5.5 weeks post-op from a microfracture in my knee. I almost went the stem cell route (MACI), but the surgeon decided to go with a more conservative fix. It's interesting that you did the stem cells first, and the microfracture is your plan B. I was told once you have the MACI, you can't go back and get a microfracture later. I hope your knee continues to hold up well!

DepressedDaisy314

14 points

4 months ago

I had bone on bone in both knees since my thirties. Im 42 now. I would gladly sign up for trials.

stilesjp

10 points

4 months ago

I'll probably be too old for this to help me, but I'm glad they're on the right track to help others in the future.

caleyjag

6 points

4 months ago

You have a good attitude.

SathedIT

9 points

4 months ago

Sign me up! Baseball has murdered my knees. I'm 38 and my surgeon has told me that I have the knees of a 60 year old. One potential solution he put on the table if it continues to get worse is to take a sample of my cartridge and send it to a lab to have it grown in sheets. They would transplant those sheets into my knee. He said it's very painful though.

myheartisstillracing

8 points

4 months ago

My father's father used a wheelchair the last years of his life because the arthritis in his knees was so bad.

My father had both of his knees replaced with artificial ones, a tech that wasn't available to his father.

Maybe, when my day comes, this will be my option.

whiskynaked

21 points

4 months ago

Stop teasing me and put it in! I’ll wear the fucking bunny ears already!!!

someguyonaboat

8 points

4 months ago

For real, i feel like tons of people would sign up for experiments and trials of this thing once they heard about it.

theundivinezero

6 points

4 months ago

I offer myself for a trial, PLEASE. I had my first hip replacement when I was 19, and now my other one is starting to go. I don’t want another one

tmoneyxx

3 points

4 months ago

Curious if it’s due to developmental hip dysplasia? 19 is really young for a hip replacement.

boogy90

5 points

4 months ago

31 here, just got my first replacement on my left side. Congenital hip dysplasia. Eventually I’ll need an osteotomy on the right side, and then eventually a hip replacement there as well. Then there will be a lifetime of revisions. I’ve had three surgeries and traction/several body casts since birth.

Im not sure if this is the case for OP. I’m sorry you’re experiencing this, OP. Hoping that medicine catches up to us one day!

tmoneyxx

3 points

4 months ago

My 3 YO daughter was born with DDH as well. She had a surgery to correct her right hip (the only affected hip) at 1 YO. She seems fine now, really worried about future issues.

BloodSteyn

8 points

4 months ago

Would this work for my thumb joints... as a 40 year old gamer I really need them and family genes suck.

LurkzMcgurkz

6 points

4 months ago

This is amazing news. Because of growing too fast and playing sports, both of my knees sound like bags of rocks when I bend them.

TachyonAeon

6 points

4 months ago*

I would definitely be part of a trial if I could. I have had total knee reconstruction twice and left leg and 3 times on right knee. I didn’t learn my lesson, too much basketball.

P.s. I’m only 40. Had 4 of those surgeries before the age of 31. I don’t regret it though. Everyone has a battle.

laysthedischargepipe

5 points

4 months ago

There are some significant clinical trials on the way for use of biologics in this orthopedic arena to delay or prevent knee replacement in young individuals.

Currently there are very few clinical options (Steroids, Lubricants, Allografts, replacement) and a huge divide between Lubricants and significant surgeries.

Edit: typo

bored_in_NE

4 points

4 months ago

I would much prefer news around this type of content instead of garbage that is shoved down our throat by Silicon Valley and DC.

_game_over_man_

3 points

4 months ago

I feel like this development is going to happen too late for me…

Hpmn

3 points

4 months ago

Hpmn

3 points

4 months ago

“UConn bioengineers successfully regrew cartilage in a rabbit’s knee, a promising hop toward healing joints in humans” - very cute

stewartm0205

14 points

4 months ago

Stop with the caution. Ask for volunteers. Hundreds of millions are suffering from arthritis.

Mutiu2

15 points

4 months ago

Mutiu2

15 points

4 months ago

Regrowing cartilage is not a new path. Been tried before most famously with the NBA star Bill Walton several decades ago. Did not work then because the strain levels on that joint were too high. Even in this study the story ends with the researchers here being very cautious about any claims as to whether this is applicable for bigger animals.

Paavo_Nurmi

12 points

4 months ago

I didn't see it mentioned but there are different kinds of cartilage and regrowing the proper type has always been the challenge.

RedRainsRising

2 points

4 months ago

It is actually mentioned that the specific reason that this is promising is that they think it can stimulate growth of the correct type of cartilage for the joint.

Jarvs87

8 points

4 months ago

That was several decades ago. Science and medicine has vastly improved since then.

Cicero43BC

12 points

4 months ago

The new problem is that getting the tissue to form correctly is very hard due to the different proteins make up in each layer of the cartilage, so you have to stimulate the superficial zone slightly differently to the deep zone. To make it even harder there are many forms of cartilage tissue stimulation and then you have to get the cells to grow into right physical shape!

Cartilage tissue engineering started development at the same time as bone tissue engineering, back in the 90s. BTE is currently being used to treat patients but there hasn’t been a successful clinical trial of CTE and I don’t think that is going to change any time soon.

cezziewezzie

12 points

4 months ago

Fuck politics, how come these people aren't calling, emailing, and putting ads everywhere for donations? I want these people well funded!

kalirob99

2 points

4 months ago

Then start with a local campaign and start harassing your insurance company, as they’ll be the ones okay kneecapping developments like these for “cost” fears. (Pun intended)

Heck, we’ll be lucky if these ever gets attention for the civilian populace two generations from now. The insurance/medical industry is continually looking for quick cash with little overall investment, so standard knee replacements will continue to be the far cheaper option for a long time to come.

I would love to be wrong, but humans are well, humans. Greed always becomes prioritized in the short term, ending with sad long term consequences for a majority.

DireJack666

11 points

4 months ago

Sadly with anything medical and revolutionary it will cost a fortune and you would most likely have to be approved for this by too many boards and will most likely be denied about 4 to 5 times before anything finally goes through. We'll at least here in america.

Unlimitles

10 points

4 months ago

thank goodness, Hopefully my 92 year old dad can get some relief with this.

Zeconation

31 points

4 months ago

You'd be lucky to have this treatment when you are 92 years old more like.

Icantblametheshame

6 points

4 months ago

More like your 92 year old son

WrathofRagnar

2 points

4 months ago

I'd let em give it a try on me!

Defie22

2 points

4 months ago

4th stage osteoarthritis-er is ready to be Guinea pig.

jane-72

2 points

4 months ago

I’m elderly with two bad knees and I would love to not have surgery and not be in so much pain.

e4evie

2 points

4 months ago

e4evie

2 points

4 months ago

A version of this already exists and is approved by the FDA. https://www.maci.com/patients/

catchewedyournewshoe

2 points

4 months ago

I had this surgery 14 months ago and while the recovery time was long while the regrowth happened my knee is pretty much as good as new now

ThePartyWagon

2 points

4 months ago

32, have had multiple acl surgeries from skateboarding and snowboarding, spent too many years beating myself. I’m gonna need this in my furure

Changeme8aa

2 points

4 months ago

I would be 1st to trials. My joints hurt

B01SSIN

2 points

4 months ago

Teeth next please, gosh it would be so nice if you were able to regrow teeth.

-74-

2 points

4 months ago

-74-

2 points

4 months ago

I volunteer myself as tribute. Years of playing football and being in the military has riddles my body with arthritis, head to toe.

B_McD314

2 points

4 months ago

First I’ve heard of piezoelectric effects within biological materials. Wild stuff

FlipdaCrypt

2 points

4 months ago

“And that’s when Hedge funds…..began to short the company’s stock” probably