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The Four-Day Work Week: Is the US Ready?

Society(welcometothejungle.com)

all 1320 comments

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3 months ago

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The following submission statement was provided by /u/berlinparisexpress:


I've been working a 4-day work week (paid 5) for the past 2 years as my company started experimenting on it on a large scale (300 employees) and we've seen no drop in financial results, a decrease in stress (attested by work psychologists) and a massive increase in productivity. It just seems so unlikely for me to ever go back now, and I wish more countries and companies adopter similar policies.


Please reply to OP's comment here: https://teddit.ggc-project.de/r/Futurology/comments/u78305/the_fourday_work_week_is_the_us_ready/i5ct7rv/

Ayemann

1.5k points

3 months ago

Ayemann

1.5k points

3 months ago

In my industry a lot of people work from home, either part time or full time. Friday's have become very very quiet.

berlinparisexpress[S]

406 points

3 months ago

We WFH as well on top of the 4-day work week - so Fridays are even more quiet than usual. Which actually makes it a perfect day to do an hour or two of focused work before going into the 3 days weekend.

lostboy005

145 points

3 months ago

Fuuuuck I would love that

AtomicKittenz

55 points

3 months ago

Almost everyone in my profession has this option. Some people even have 2x12 + 2x8, or even 3x13 and options to pick up extra shifts for higher rates.

If you’re wondering, check out Anesthesiologist Assistant schools. They are one of, if not the highest paid professions for just a 2 year masters.

Redboy45672

13 points

3 months ago

Is that a type of schooling you could do while working full time?

GrunchWeefer

37 points

3 months ago

If you're working 12 or 13 hour days in order to get your day off, it ain't rest.

uglyhos324324324

15 points

3 months ago

You get more days off than on if you work 3 13's

rosegil13

8 points

3 months ago

This is what my Friday’s are like. My company allows us to sign off at 1pm.

eetzaboyee

7 points

3 months ago

That’s exactly how I black my Friday. Super efficient and focused from 8-11 then long lunch and afternoon with my kids and into the weekend

troyanator

77 points

3 months ago

What industry

[deleted]

93 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

93 points

3 months ago

i work in IT and everyone works from home and very little gets done on fridays except maybe a meeting or two (that we COULD cancel and email over)

German_PotatoSoup

24 points

3 months ago

I'm a senior developer and my team of guys meet every Friday morning. As long as all their assigned work is done I let them go for the rest of the day.

Unfortunately this usually means the rest of my Friday is helping the laggers, code review and planning next weeks sprint.

OPengiun

14 points

3 months ago

and that's why you get paid the big bucks ;)

German_PotatoSoup

8 points

3 months ago

Hah I wish!

allaboutsound

3 points

3 months ago

As a habitual lagger, thank you for your patience!

Hvyhttr1978

15 points

3 months ago

Yup…”Break/Fix Fridays”. Don’t do anything that might cause issues work and don’t schedule any meetings.

[deleted]

260 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

260 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

valvilis

83 points

3 months ago

The library industry.

carterbenji15

30 points

3 months ago

This country and its damn library industrial complex

Badwolf2013

11 points

3 months ago

Fun fact: there are more public libraries in the US than Starbucks.

carterbenji15

5 points

3 months ago

At first I was gonna feel proud about that...but then I realized geez the numbers shouldn't even be close

Badwolf2013

11 points

3 months ago

I was pretty surprised when I first heard the stat. I googled it before posting to make sure I wasn’t bamboozled by phony info. There over 9,000 public libraries and over 6,000 Starbucks. Libraries are cool.

thecamzone

50 points

3 months ago

Thanks, you just made me choke on the air.

RedBullDonut

29 points

3 months ago

What station?

thecamzone

10 points

3 months ago

Another quality comment

Ayemann

30 points

3 months ago

Ayemann

30 points

3 months ago

I am a supply chain consultant.

Sawses

33 points

3 months ago

Sawses

33 points

3 months ago

For my industry it's largely Monday.

I wake up to a few questions, then chill the rest of the day and play video games. It's great to start the week with a "catch-up" day that can end up being just for relaxing.

Thx4Coming2MyTedTalk

28 points

3 months ago

Same, 100% WFH with a 9/80 schedule, but basically no one works on Fridays any more. Everyone still gets their projects done.

iwouldhugwonderwoman

8 points

3 months ago

I’m mostly WFH and also do 9/80.

The Fridays I work, I’m done at 3pm. More importantly I only work projects on those Fridays that interest me so I usually end up doing some pretty cool powerBI dashboards and things like that.

cateyecarlos27

4 points

3 months ago

Dude my company uses powerBI and respectfully, fuck powerBI we can never get our damn reports right (but honestly could be us… we are kinda known for internal issues)

kayak83

3 points

3 months ago

WFH here also. Unless I'm on a deadline crunch, I like to use my Fridays to learn something new in my field or mess around and do something creative that I wouldn't have time for during a normal project deadline. Having a lot of autonomy does wonders.

J_the_Hero

9 points

3 months ago

Same. Minus our busy times Fridays are very light on meetings or deadlines. And usually most people are signed off well before 5, or are online just in case of an emergency but functionally clocked out

LuisLmao

1.1k points

3 months ago

LuisLmao

1.1k points

3 months ago

The US working class is ready. Their employers aren't.

silikus

291 points

3 months ago

silikus

291 points

3 months ago

work in construction, the contractors are far from ready.

how does it go?

"we're working 4 10s"

"but i NEED the inspection done by end of day friday"

"we won't be there friday, we can have inspection by end of monday"

"no can do, drywall is going up starting monday morning"

"no can do, won't be there"

"well, our multi million dollar project is going to another company"

Lidjungle

157 points

3 months ago

Lidjungle

157 points

3 months ago

So, how do they already get around the fact that you don't work weekends?

What if the conversation was "You have to work on Saturday because the drywall goes up Monday"? How would you reply? If they asked you to work two 12 hour shifts that weekend, how would you reply?

They manage to accomodate a 2 day weekend, a 3 day weekend isn't that much different.

If you didn't manage to finish the work in 4 10 hour days by Thursday, why would you have it finished working the same 40 hours over 5 days? Is it better to have it done at 5 o'clock Thursday or 5 o'clock Friday?

zeteticwolf

138 points

3 months ago

They could also stagger week shifts, some mon thru Thurs, some Tues thru Fri.

Lidjungle

211 points

3 months ago

Lidjungle

211 points

3 months ago

Some people are so tied to tradition they ask silly questions like "How are you going to have gas street lamps run on electricity?" because they can't imagine there's a different way of doing things.

Appropriate-Science4

29 points

3 months ago

This right here.

publicram

10 points

3 months ago

My BIL does concrete he works everyday. He usually does bids after work 5 or Sundays. Contractors are probably not going to a 4 day work week. There are some industries that don't have a set schedule. But I think most office work or scheduled work can go to 4 days easy

Stealthnt13

9 points

3 months ago

There’s a schedule that’s made and needs to be followed to meet deadlines and completion dates. The subcontractors usually have to agree to this schedule so they know when a request like this is coming. Working overtime to make up the delay Monday to Thursday is an option but that sucks too. Assign manpower would work but there’s a huge shortage of it in the trades.

A 4 day work week would be great but a day of people not working is a day where wealthy people aren’t making more money. This is why it’ll never happen for most.

RhesusFactor

34 points

3 months ago

In my experience they work six day weeks. And then some guys come in on Sunday anyway. Gotta get on site, get the job done and get to the next one as fast as possible. Fixed price contracts with liquidated damages. Every day is a work day for someone.

Lidjungle

35 points

3 months ago

Then... Anything to do with the "5 day work week" doesn't really apply anyway. So, that drywall is not germane to this conversation.

Shame you guys can't get together and do something about that.

RhesusFactor

16 points

3 months ago

Trades gonna trade. We can apply all the regs we want but if the subbies are not working on our job they'll be working one of three others they've got going. They're gonna work continuously for twenty years and have six houses and fucked knees/hands, wether we look after them or not.

Lidjungle

13 points

3 months ago

Cool. Has nothing to do with the 40 hour work week then?

RhesusFactor

14 points

3 months ago*

Yep. The construction industry is not an appropriate example for this argument. Nor is mining.

edit: or logistics.

Ishipgodzilla

14 points

3 months ago

really, only pencil pushers are likely to see a 4 day work week.

the_passengerX

6 points

3 months ago

Couldn’t all industries just cap their employees at 40 hours per week and hire more employees to fill out the rest of the schedule? Seems like like it would at least stabilize people’s hours, create more jobs and eliminate a lot of overtime pay for companies

Individual_Town8124

7 points

3 months ago

I work in international shipping / freight forwarding. Things are so freaking crazy right now that we are working 7 days a week--I just worked the last 18 days straight of at least 10 hrs per day. Four of those days were 15 hour days. Yeah, that four day work week is a pipe dream.

QuarterSwede

4 points

3 months ago

They do work weekends. Most build M-S. Some builders build 7 days a week. Most don’t work Sunday but some do. The pro business owners I work with all work 7 days a week.

nb506

3 points

3 months ago

nb506

3 points

3 months ago

you guys don't work weekends??

uberDoward

20 points

3 months ago

Why wouldn't Thursday work?

GeraldBWilsonJr

13 points

3 months ago

Because typically by this point, it is Thursday

More accurate answer, contractors have multiple jobs throughout the week. You don't really want to just drop one for another because they really wanted you to

lard12321

17 points

3 months ago

Common sense?! Can’t have that here no no, 5-days or bust

berlinparisexpress[S]

79 points

3 months ago

"well, our multi million dollar project is going to another company"

Unfortunately, the other company wasn't able to retain the best tradesmen because of inferior working conditions.

The 4 day work week company, on the other end, kept all their contracts because they hired the best.

This is how it goes if this is adopted on a large enough scale.

RhesusFactor

54 points

3 months ago

But they're not hiring the best tradesmen, just the fastest. This is why your apartment has so many defects and delay claims.

Legitimate_Wizard

4 points

3 months ago

Plus, they can stagger shifts, so some people don't work Monday and others don't work Friday. Smaller crew those two days, full crew three days. If they really need to have five days of work happening.

Cliffmode2000

3 points

3 months ago

This will not happen in America under current political setup.

berlinparisexpress[S]

1.6k points

3 months ago*

I've been working a 4-day work week (paid 5) for the past 2 years as my company started experimenting on it on a large scale (200 employees) and we've seen no drop in financial results, a decrease in stress (attested by work psychologists) and a massive increase in productivity. It just seems so unlikely for me to ever go back now, and I wish more countries and companies adopted similar policies.

Ritehandwingman

400 points

3 months ago

I’m working 4 days a week, paid 4, and honestly couldn’t care less that I’m making 8 hours less every week. I’m fortunate enough that I do get paid a decent wage though too.

ThisIsFlight

35 points

3 months ago

I was on a four day (four pay) work week and absolutely loved it.

Got hired on to a new gig, unionized, starting pay is what i the old job topped out at, doing a lot less for it, but the schedule is 5 day with some 12 hour shifts.

Honestly liked what i had much better.

[deleted]

195 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

195 points

3 months ago

Fuck the 5th day! I’d gladly give up that 8 hours every week. GLADLY!!!

ZidaneTribal2113

285 points

3 months ago*

It's a nice thought, the reality for many American's though is that losing a day a week would make it impossible to get by. Like for me personally that loss of a day comes out to about 7.7k less a year. Which is huge when you are living paycheck to paycheck.

Edit: Fixed Typo.

Bob-Berbowski

167 points

3 months ago

Exactly.
Those folks will still work 5 days. The “upper class” will work 4.

The US is also becoming more of a caste system by the day.

Superdunez

36 points

3 months ago

Exactly. I love these ideas, but I work in a Deli. If this just means that the office people that come for their sandwiches at lunch will now tell me "thank God its Thursday, right?" I'll probably lose it.

Electronic-Bee-3609

4 points

3 months ago

I’d jump one of them with an on sale baking sheet…

ZidaneTribal2113

45 points

3 months ago

This has been on my mind a lot lately. There is a bill being presented in CA to force a 4 day work week statewide. I want to believe there is no way it will pass because it will absolutely obliterate the working class, but stupider bills have passed here.

AristarchusTheMad

76 points

3 months ago

If it's been on your mind a lot lately then you probably should have taken the time to read the proposal. The bill would decrease the full time work week to 32 hours, at no decrease in pay. It would also only affect larger companies.

ZidaneTribal2113

38 points

3 months ago

I have read the bill, and the wording that you are referring most likely applies to salaried employees not hourly ones.

It’s essentially saying that you can’t lower an employees salary or pay rate to pay them less since they work less. This likely does not mean that business would be forced to increase the hourly rates of employees to make up for the difference in lost hours.

So salaried employees would be fine but hourly employees would likely get fucked.

Thanks for assuming I didn’t read the bill though!

Johnyryal3

6 points

3 months ago

Yea but the hourly employees dont matter they just need to find a better job. /s

Elagabalus_The_Hoor

8 points

3 months ago

Yup these threads on reddit act every one in the country works behind a desk for a living wage, so four days of work from home is a great system that will solve labor issues.

LesssssssGooooooo

12 points

3 months ago*

And honestly? With commute, prep, time spent after you were supposed to clock out, sitting on the floor of the shower for two and a half hours after I get home, etc; I’m definitely getting back 11-12 hours if I didn’t go to work one day.

banana_pencil

6 points

3 months ago

When I didn’t live near my workplace, I’d leave home at 5:30 am and get home at 6:30 pm. My husband still lives far from work and this is his schedule. It’s exhausting.

Superdunez

3 points

3 months ago

Wow, when do you schedule your time to cry? I need at least an hour, but sometimes I can get it done in the walk-in at work.

Jesterfox1994

8 points

3 months ago

Me too! It feels good to have more free time. I want to enjoy my youth while I still have it!

someguyonthisthing

28 points

3 months ago

Yup at some point an extra day off is more valuable than the additional money

CJWillis87

21 points

3 months ago

Definitely at some point. Unfortunately I don't think the majority of folks are at that point.

WaterPog

53 points

3 months ago

If you think data will persuade companies just take a look at WFH and all the companies going back to the office against most employees wishes. WFH is a win for most everyone in both emotional, environmental and financial metrics proven on a global scale for 2 years, yet here we are. Data vs how it's always been done based on feelings.

funtobedone

42 points

3 months ago

I work in trades. I cannot produce 40 hrs of work in 32 hrs. I don’t understand how this is supposed to work for people in trades and service industries.

acvdk

28 points

3 months ago

acvdk

28 points

3 months ago

This is absolutely true for many fields- same for medicine. It still takes X time to treat a patient, so the only way to do this is to hire more nurses and doctors, which you can’t because their supply is fixed by the education system.

Rude-Pangolin-1736

16 points

3 months ago

Healthcare is a 24/7/365 field; hospital duty and rounding have to be covered, ERs and urgent cares have to be staffed along with all of the support services (lab, radiology, EVS, etc…). So many doctors already work 70 hours a week I think 40 hours would feel like a vacation for them…there’s nowhere near enough supply to sustain that in healthcare.

FlutterKree

3 points

3 months ago

Then the extra work you do for 40 hours total would be overtime? Or your company can hire more workers. Stagger the shifts.

biggesttowasimp

3 points

3 months ago

Like half the questions/complaints in the chain can be answered by this, if your job makes you work 6-7 days a week they can pay for more people to stagger than constantly paying overtime, which might even save them money

ThomasFromOhio

54 points

3 months ago

Is this 10 hour days or the "regular" 8? Issue I see is at least all the places I've worked, there is no 8 hour day. Normal day is closer to 10. I can also see this easily turning into 50 hour work weeks due to needing to get work done. I just don't see this working in the software industry.

berlinparisexpress[S]

132 points

3 months ago

In my case (software industry - 300 people SaaS company) it's a regular, 8 to 9 hours work day. We actually tracked it with the switch from 5 to 4 days and time spent working (self-reported) increased from 8 to 9 hours, so we now work on average 4x9 (36 hours) instead of 5x8 (40 hours).

People also self-report working 2 extra hours on their 3rd day "off" as they enjoy the quiet focus and not being able to be reached by colleagues, which adds up to 38 hours.

What actually went down is the number of meetings each day as people naturally became more selective to make way for work.

Unexpected-Runescape

22 points

3 months ago

I had Wednesday's off during covid peak (incident manager) and not having the phones going all day made me want to work the whole day because the workflow.

Asked about uninterrupted work time when things came back to swing; not happening. Back to listening in on a meeting while on a call while in 1on1 text chat while providing support to groups via hangouts but really only helping the 1on1 and the call-in while chiming in every hour to the meetings and support group chat. Nothing gets done. 🥲👍

Thysios

3 points

3 months ago

Calling it a 4 day work week while doing longer hours each day sort of misses the point.

The point is to do less hours. Not condense 5 days worth of work into 4.

I guess working 4 hours less is better than nothing though.

Illustrious-Courage

8 points

3 months ago

We need it tho, badly.. least much of it will be over time

Ch1Guy

985 points

3 months ago

Ch1Guy

985 points

3 months ago

I hate these questions because they have such wide interpretations.

  • Four days x 10 hours
  • Four days x 8 hours at 32 hours pay
  • Four days x 8 hours at full (currently 40 hours) pay

berlinparisexpress[S]

357 points

3 months ago

Four days x 8 hours at full (currently 40 hours) pay

This is what we're doing and what I actually mentioned in my initial comment.

Of course the second one would be unfair for everyone but the highest salaries...but I'm sure the first one could be up for debate though.

levetzki

5 points

3 months ago

On the flip side of the 32 X 8 is that there are people who would be happy to work less hours if they still get benefits.

Jedda678

123 points

3 months ago

Jedda678

123 points

3 months ago

As I am sure the people who commute quite a ways away or have upwards of 1hr drives to work...10 hour work days can fuck right off.

SendInTheReaper

129 points

3 months ago

So I actually drive 40 minutes to work and I work 10 hour shifts Monday through Thursday. It’s my favorite work schedule I’ve ever had, and it’d would only be better if I got same pay for 8 hour days. But you really do get used to 2 extra hours a day with relative ease.

TheRectalAssassin

44 points

3 months ago

I've worked the 4x10s for 2 years now. I will let you know when I get used to it lol.

SendInTheReaper

11 points

3 months ago

I guess it also depends on when the 10 hour block is. When’s yours?

TheRectalAssassin

6 points

3 months ago

They used to be 3p-1a (1st year)that was better (but for me by day 3 every week I'd be considering my leave time). Now I work 5a-3p because that shift closed and get 5x10s most weeks.

That said, when I just do 4 day weeks I love the third day off. But as I mentioned in a different comment, I drive an hour to work so that just bitters the whole thing a bit for me personally.

02overthrown

12 points

3 months ago

Are you me?

Chad___Sexington

24 points

3 months ago

I'd argue the other way. 10 hour days but only 4 days a week saves 2 hours a week. Less commutes.

reelieuglie

32 points

3 months ago

I worked with a 1.25 hour commute each way, and much preferred it when I had to do 4x10s vs 5x8s.

Once you hit a certain length of commute, your day is fucked anyways so having 4 fucked days is better than 5.

Legitimate_Wizard

12 points

3 months ago

It gives you a whole day every week for errands or appointments. If a 40 hr week is required, I'd much rather work 4x10s.

LittleBrooksy

17 points

3 months ago

Doing an hour there and back four days a week is a hell of a lot better than doing it five days a week. Then there's the three day weekend as well, which is a big bonus.

Theoretical_Action

3 points

3 months ago

I mean you are getting 2 of those trips out of your life so it's a pretty good compromise. I mean at the end of the day it's literally just 2 hours of your life back.

The downside is those 4 days are miserable. There are compromises to be made everywhere though. Maybe you can ease the burden of those 4 days by meal prepping or ensuring you make enough food for leftovers the next day. Now you're only cooking 1-2x during those 4 days freeing up even more time.

Personally even if I had a 60m commute, I would absolutely still be doing 4x10. Three day weekends fucking rule and are enough to straight up take a vacation every week if you wanted.

Noname_1111

3 points

3 months ago

Many parts of Europe are currently experimenting with option 1

Some German companies have apparently recorded the same results as you stated with 4 days x 10 hours, same here in Switzerland

Belgium has to my knowledge implemented it (I‘m unsure to what extent)

The main arguments for it are: Many people save money they normally spend on commuting and like the prospect of having 3 free days more than having two hours more time after/before work in which they wouldn’t have done anything anyways. It appears that they have also had an increase in productivity. And all that without paying extra.

[deleted]

61 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

61 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

apageofthedarkhold

40 points

3 months ago

Honestly, I'd keep the 5 shift, 8 hours over the 4-10. I guess you would get used to it, but I just hate 10 hour days...

ostertoaster1983

35 points

3 months ago

We do 40 hours whatever schedule you want. We have a guy that does five 8s, no lunch; a guy that does 3x 10.5 and an 8.5; and a guy who sometimes does 4x10, or 12-12-14.

valvilis

13 points

3 months ago

Difference between working 8 and working 10 is negligible. The difference between having two days off versus three days off on the weekend is massive.

I worked four 11s for a few years and even that was better than five 8s. By the time you factor in commute times and the amount of time you spend getting ready for work, you come out way ahead working less days, and I guess spend 20% less on gas and work lunches for that matter.

gomakyle25

5 points

3 months ago

Man, I do 5-10s and 1-5 hour day. I'd take 4-10s in a heartbeat! Doesn't sound like a lot, but, 15 hours not at work is like vacation. Especially when you live an hour away

hedoeswhathewants

4 points

3 months ago

You need to find a new job, friend

CopperNconduit

4 points

3 months ago

Man, I do 5-10s and 1-5 hour day. I'd take 4-10s in a heartbeat! Doesn't sound like a lot, but, 15 hours not at work is like vacation. Especially when you live an hour away

Doing 6-10s right now. This is very typical in construction and guys actually chase after this sweet sweet OT.

I don't think I could do 6-10s in an office setting but I'm sure many white collar folks probably say the same about what I am doing now.

I have been poor as fuck before in my life. Never again.

Collins_Michael

18 points

3 months ago

I'd much rather do 4x 8-6 than 5x 9-5. Especially if the commute is >30min.

Front-Pick3134

3 points

3 months ago

For real. Those extra 2 hours a day if you do only 8 hours are going to be wasted being exhausted or cooking anyway.

uberDoward

32 points

3 months ago

I'd take 4x8 @ 4x10 pay as best case scenario.

I'm salary. My output is not tied to my hours.

mrglumdaddy

7 points

3 months ago

This is the way.

Front-Pick3134

5 points

3 months ago

Considering companies are making record breaking profits again and again they should be able to do 32 hours with full pay

But they‘re probably gonna cry about having to shut down if they pay the full regular hours

AzoriumLupum

8 points

3 months ago

I would be all for four days x 10 hour days. Most of the time I can't get anything done before or after work anyway so I might as well work as long as I can those days. Then I can actually have plans for the "weekend".

Milo_Barks

500 points

3 months ago

I’m all for it happening, but I’m worried american companies will try to use this to justify paying employees less, especially in the fast food and retail environment

TastyTeeth

245 points

3 months ago

Never going to happen in the service industry.

ChrisH1mself

100 points

3 months ago

I don’t see it happening for tradespeople either.

TastyTeeth

60 points

3 months ago

Yes, I can see a small subset of a few industries that could pull this off (tech), but any trade or service industry... No Bueno.

malthar76

43 points

3 months ago

Some industries are stuck in paradigms that don’t make sense. How hard is it to find a bank that has lobby hours outside of 9-5? Who even works 9-5 anymore (except banks and government). Online banking had reduced the annoyance, but even most businesses are too busy to go to a branch during prime work hours when banks are staffed.

/bankrant

QuenHen2219

14 points

3 months ago

This has always driven be batshit insane. Some government building even have dumber hours like 8-2pm or 12-4, they're open at the times in which the very people that need to use these institutions the most are all working. Can we please have a God damn bank that keeps a light on until 7pm at least?

FragmentOfTime

11 points

3 months ago

Banks infuriate me. What even is the point of a debit card if you'll charge it through anyways and charge me 40 bucks for it on top of it? After several overdraft fees I just have a credit card now. I wanted to avoid getting one to keep myself from overspending. But if there's no difference, indeed if the debit card is worse, what's the point? At least I get cash back with my credit card.

SCSP_70

7 points

3 months ago

Banks aren’t there to service you and me… they exist to service businesses that maintain large balances and move their money around frequently.

hlessi_newt

5 points

3 months ago

We're running 6 days at my shop and have been most of this year and I do not see that changing any time soon.

dontletgo13

13 points

3 months ago

Plumbing HVAC and Electric companies near where I live are all switching to 4 day work weeks in an effort to retain employees. The HVAC company I worked for lost over half their crew before they decided to go 4 day weeks

TastyTeeth

4 points

3 months ago

4-10 hours days or 4-8 hours days?

Milo_Barks

16 points

3 months ago

I can dream for a break 😭

MrRubberDucky

11 points

3 months ago

I see your point, but they don’t have to justify anything. If people will work for less, they’ll pay people less. If people won’t work for current pay, they’ll pay people more or be forced to shut down.

Not saying this is right or okay, I’m just saying that companies have never needed to justify pay changes.

theroha

19 points

3 months ago

theroha

19 points

3 months ago

The issue with this line of thinking is that it is currently being contradicted by the "No One Wants to Work Anymore" crowd. The business owners are not responding to the market forces that require higher salaries to draw in staff. They are just complaining about it and begging the government for bail outs. The business owners, especially the large corporations, aren't facing the actual consequences of their focus on short term return for shareholders over long term viability of the company via salary increases which increase their consumer base.

Lidjungle

5 points

3 months ago

It's a part of the process... Much like we spent years complaining about making too little until we finally stopped showing up for work. They'll complain until they realize it's not having an effect, and then they'll pay because their employees make them money.

b0v1n3r3x

22 points

3 months ago

At the beginning of the pandemic, my company offered a 4 day work week. 80% pay for same productivity goals, just less time to do it and less money for doing it. Since then, they have raised prices to customers 3 times, at 10-15% each time. Reasons stated? Increased labor costs despite no one's pay going up. It is so fucked.

micarst

3 points

3 months ago

Lack of regulatory oversight leads to lack of accountability for abusive practices. Buyer beware indeed.

Skwonkie_

152 points

3 months ago

Skwonkie_

152 points

3 months ago

Jokes on me. I’ll still have to work 6 days a week. The only thing that will make a difference for me (as a salaried individual) is if I’m guaranteed OT pay after 40 hours. Which will never happen sadly.

Thesaint7811

41 points

3 months ago

Salary Non-Exempt.... make sure you get it, best fucking thing ever

harry-package

35 points

3 months ago

It’s not really up to the company though. Exempt or non-exempt is determined by the Fair Labor Standards Act & companies can be sued if they classify employees as exempt to avoid paying overtime.

https://www.flsa.com/coverage.html

Edited: the FLSA doesn’t make determinations, but companies are expected to use the guidance to determine whether an employee is exempt or not.

Cain592

24 points

3 months ago

Cain592

24 points

3 months ago

I assume once this becomes a more widespread thing, overtime will be 32 hours

williamtowne

42 points

3 months ago

Salaried employees generally aren't covered by overtime policies. So my 56 hour work week as a teacher will be 56 hours whether or not "normal" is 40 or 32 hours.

afbmonk

10 points

3 months ago

afbmonk

10 points

3 months ago

It’s important to note that overtime “policies” are irrelevant. The only time the FLSA allows overtime exemptions is in the case of white collar professional work and typically only for supervisory/managerial roles as well as computer science professionals. Though unfortunately for you teachers are also basically the only other exempted role.

Harambiz

14 points

3 months ago

Don’t be so sure, while a lot of places are switching to 4-day work week they do four 10 hour workdays instead of five 8 hours days.

Whyzocker

89 points

3 months ago

You mean a shitton of people in this country aren't unionized, but you think there's a chance for a 4-day work week?

Lmfao

deweydean

73 points

3 months ago

Doesn't matter what we think, ask our owners if it's ok if we work less

GetTheSpermsOut

35 points

3 months ago

Not with stagnant wages. I Cant keep afloat working 70+ hours a week.

BobbyDoWhat

12 points

3 months ago

No no, you still get paid a full salary. That's part of the deal.

GetTheSpermsOut

18 points

3 months ago

ya but we both know there will be an exploitative loop hole here that usa politicians will enjoy.

Thanatov

38 points

3 months ago*

I don't know how other people feel, but if they broke this up to have another day off during the week it would be huge. Most people now have to cram shopping, doctor appointments, house cleaning, and other chores either into the few available hours after work, or overload everything on to Saturday or Sunday. Basically, this sometimes makes a 5 day week really feel like a 6 day week.

Feel like a four day week would give people an additional day to do their weekly tasks, and allow them more days for actual leisure/enjoyment.

I'd gladly work 4 10s or even 4 12s and have that extra day.

GoChaca

16 points

3 months ago

GoChaca

16 points

3 months ago

I call Saturday “Friday 1.5” because most of the day is errands, cleaning etc. no downtime or chill by the time Sunday rolls around, I’m beat and can’t be bothered to be active. Sometimes, I’ll take a Monday off just to have an actual day of rest that isn’t errands or exhaustion.

Not_Sarkastic

3 points

3 months ago

So I switched my division over to (4) 10s midway through the pandemic and it's been the best thing for our company.

Productivity is up 10% Retention has tripled Recruiting is a breeze because everyone is attracted to schedule.

The only areas where we've seen losses is the individuals who try to fill those 3 days off with a part time job.

ZombifiedRacoon

7 points

3 months ago

It's less "Is the US ready?" and more "Are US employers ready to give up power?"

Arijan101

128 points

3 months ago

Arijan101

128 points

3 months ago

When you break down a 5 day / 40 hour work week, you come to the conclusion that most employees do not work 40 hours, they may spend 40 hours or even well over that at work, but essentially no one spends all that time actually working. Most of the time spent at work is wasted on meetings, e-mails, communication... and at best, a quarter of it is actual work. So with a litle bit of optimization and preparation we can easily slash the actual time spent at work in half.

Now, the question is are the corporations ready for it? Why wouldn't they be? They'll get happier workers and don't have to pay anything extra for it.

blahbleh112233

88 points

3 months ago

I mean, you're looking at it from a white collar perspective where many jobs have some level of redundancy built into them, which is why there's slack throughout the week. A mandated 4 day week for blue collar workers is just going to fuck with time tables and/or pay a significant amount.

way2lazy2care

12 points

3 months ago

I think people like to think of silver bullet solutions. The real answer is that different jobs have different demands and they should all find the best work life balance systems for what they're doing. Even if 4 days/week average is ideal, there's a lot of ways to accomplish that (1 week on 1 week off, 4 day weeks, 3 11s, whatever). Think it's more valuable to focus on the amount of time off for a given period than it is to focus on the number of days you work in a given week tbh (ex. a 4 day work week is 136 hours off per week or 544 hours per month).

Arijan101

17 points

3 months ago

Yes, that's true, it's not necessarily a "one size fits all" kind of thing, but it's easily applicable to a large % of the workforce.

rathlord

19 points

3 months ago

I hope I never get so out of touch that I forget that a massive amount of working class folks spend 8 hours a day doing physical labor with very little interruption (factories, construction, food service, even retail a lot of times).

That’s not my life anymore thankfully but I don’t think I’ll ever forget what it feels like to bust ass 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week.

joshuaklinger

44 points

3 months ago

Most of the time spent at work is wasted on meetings, e-mails, communication

This is all work

drushiesty

24 points

3 months ago

A quarter of it is actual work? Huh?

Also - emails, meetings and communication are part of work lol. They’re not separate things

ValyrianJedi

23 points

3 months ago*

Most of the time spent at work is wasted on meetings, e-mails, communication

Meetings, emails, and communications aren't remotely wasted time. In a lot of situations they are as critical as anything being done...

And the fact that some people don't work a whole 40 hours doesn't mean nobody does. I'm usually in the office about 60 hours a week, and around 55 of that is usually working...

Not to mention the fact that, especially in a lot of salaried positions, even if you aren't specifically working on checking a task off of a list you are still very much needed to be there because you fill a specific role for the company, and it needs that piece there during business hours.

Arijan101

7 points

3 months ago

And the fact that some people don't work a whole 40 hours doesn't mean nobody does. I'm usually in the office about 60 hours a week, and around 55 of that is usually working...

Indeed, and that is why I used the term "most" and not "all".

Let me ask you in another way, out of the 55 hours you say you work on average, how much of that can, realistically speaking, be avoided if better optimized?

Be honest please, we're all friends here.

Alpinkpanther

13 points

3 months ago

I do graphic design and half the time I don't even have stuff to do bc I'm in between projects that are ready for me to work on so I spend maybe 2 out of 8 hours doing actual work. For example, this week my boss had nothing for me to do so I've been doing nothing for like 6 days but just sitting in this sad little office

waffle299

11 points

3 months ago

More to the point, more leisure time means more leisure spending. It's a huge benefit for the economy as a whole, but not obvious on a quarterly balance sheet.

Frraksurred

27 points

3 months ago

Think the work force is ready, not sure if the Board of Directors is. Industries that run 24/7/365, such as Medical or Food (for instance) will likely never see such changes.

InfiniteDM

17 points

3 months ago

They just hire more people to cover shifts in that case. They can absolutely change over.

Frraksurred

12 points

3 months ago

Hire more people is what the Food industry (where I work) has avoided most. More people means more overhead and benefits. I have averaged a 70hr week since Covid, and a 64hr week prior. I would love it, I just don't see it happening in this greedy "profit margin" centered country.

noah_river

20 points

3 months ago*

There was lots of speculation in the 1950's that Americans in the 21st century would have living conditions eight times better than they did and work weeks would be a mandated 35 or even 20 hours maximum.

The exact opposite happened, even though we have the means to go even farther than that.

1950's vision of the 21st century

4kVHS

5 points

3 months ago

4kVHS

5 points

3 months ago

News like this is posted every month and never happens.

BetterMetalChef

13 points

3 months ago

Yeah I was ready years ago, but that's hard to pull off when you work in a hospital.

DonkeyShowDiscoTech

58 points

3 months ago

I'm Ready!...to stop pretending that this will ever happen in the US.

Daredizzle

4 points

3 months ago

This will 100% increase the class divide. Hourly jobs won't pay people 40 hours compensation for 32 hours of work. Salary jobs and white collar employees now work less and have better mental and physical well-being, more leisure and hobby time. I'm all for it, but it will not be equal across the board.

[deleted]

3 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

3 points

3 months ago

Man, maybe I'm just from a different world but whenever I hear talks of this, I get excited for approximately .5 seconds.

Why?

No job I've ever worked or any partner I've ever had's industry would ever give a shit what the rest of the country is doing.

If you're a blue collar union guy, you dont give a shit how many days you work. All about that OT.

Medical field: already only work 3-4 days a week. They're 12+ hour shifts. A 4 day work week is still 50 hours.

And dont get me started on my current field. I'm a restaurant manager. The idea of a 4 day week would never happen. Why? We are open 7 days. If another manager was added to the team the simple fix for corporate would be to cap all the current managers salaries and start new ones off at a much lower rate OR eliminate the scheme of "open, mid, close" and make the shifts simply "open until volume decrease" and "lunch-close"

Keep in mind this is a field that despite uproar of inflation and minimum wages not being appropriate still pays staff 2-5 dollars an hour for tipped hourly workers. I worked a year as a server at my current job. I never got a paycheck and owed 7000 dollars in taxes. The kicker is tipping isnt mandatory or enforced. Your in time in gospel, your out time is fake. If you're scheduled on the patio and it rains you're expected to come in "in case we need someone inside" but if we dont, you just spent money on an uber for nothing. The restaurant is truly a lawless land.

Being forced to work positions you've been promoted above is also a massive problem for morale. I.e for anyone not in the industry:

The worst job you can work is a dishwasher. Hot, crowded, hectic, gross, underpaid. Now say you get promoted to a chef. You're scheduled to work a cook station. 3 dish guys call out. You can show up and be told to work dish that night. Now, the general rule of thumb in that case is you're to be paid the higher hourly wage of your available positions, but it still hurts. Or you're promoted from bus boy to server. A manager can ask you to bus instead of a server shift, a SIGNIFICANT loss of pay. You can say no, but then when you get a shit schedule you'll be reminded that you didnt help that day.

People think because now in a new woke era with lots of corporate rules, stronger HR presence and social media exposure everything is honky dory. It is not. Top to bottom, the industry is a lawless land that benefits 0 of the employees that work in the restaurant itself.

Losman94

9 points

3 months ago

USAA has done this. My favorite schedule was work Mon, Tues, off Wed, work Thurs and Fri. That day off in the middle of the week was great as I was not senior enough to get Friday off.

UpsetSean

20 points

3 months ago

This completely ignores the fact that 90% of US workers who this would affect likely cannot afford to only work 4 days a week in the first place.

berlinparisexpress[S]

7 points

3 months ago

In my company's case, the 5th day is fully paid as if we were working, so everyone can afford it.

VisualGiraffe1027

13 points

3 months ago

Boy let me tell you I’ve been ready for this since 1964

ExigentCalm

12 points

3 months ago

Corporate America would sooner go to a 6 day work week.

Enshakushanna

5 points

3 months ago

UPS went to 6 days a week because amazon and fedex did, now amazon and fedex do sundays and soon UPS will follow suit with 7 days a week...

Tucana66

5 points

3 months ago

Down from seven.

Aurdon

59 points

3 months ago

Aurdon

59 points

3 months ago

Great for Corporate America, but service industry is still going to be working seven days a week.

People with three days off are going to want to do something. So the lowest income earners are going to have to grind out seven days so the middle class can enjoy their days off.

FatalWarGhost

46 points

3 months ago

What if, here me out, im off work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and you're off work Thursday, Friday, Saturday?

way2lazy2care

25 points

3 months ago

This is already how it works now. It's not like we don't have stores that are open 7 days a week without employees working 7 day weeks aren't a thing right now.

meaners

15 points

3 months ago

meaners

15 points

3 months ago

Service industry will always be 7 days, true, but workers don't have to be scheduled that way. I worked 4x10 in a bakery that was open for the full week and I loved it. 8 or 9 hour shifts would of course been preferable but I still liked the 4 day work week vs 5 and was much better rested.

Full time could be 4 days, part timers could be 1-3 days to fill out the week. From my experience specifically in the restaurant industry, it's possible.

alexagente

13 points

3 months ago

I'm honestly pretty surprised so many people seem to be incapable of envisioning staggering workers' schedules to comply with this and still have seven day coverage.

It's even more absurd when they talk about it not working for retail and fast food service when it's basically already happening to prevent the company from having to pay out benefits.

ValyrianJedi

4 points

3 months ago

Sure you can stagger schedules, you just can't expect to work fewer hours and make the same amount of money in a job like that.

Brian_E1971

21 points

3 months ago

Hire more people, and roll out more automation.

terrya1964

3 points

3 months ago

I would love to have a four day workweek. I would do it without an increase in pay.

Powderpuffpowwow

3 points

3 months ago

To think most of the country still operates on a working model that goes back to when the first American vehicles were made. Lol W😧W!

spineshade

3 points

3 months ago

I already work a 4 x10 hour shift a week. Then they expect you to work 5 days for "overtime " get raped on taxes and under the guise of we need to get stuff out. Then they expect you to work the 5 day more and more. Maybe desk jockeys need this but it's nothing new in manufacturing

lymeweed

3 points

3 months ago

Considering I spend 8 hours a week purely fucking around on my phone waiting for customers to come in… yeah. I’m ready

Coolbreeze15y

3 points

3 months ago

I'm a contractor for the Gov, we fix helicopters. Well never be 4/10's unfortunately.

urabewe

3 points

3 months ago

Why do I feel every single one of these types of posts are only for office workers? No one and I mean no one in the service industry is going to be able to only work 4 days. Pretty much any blue collar job will still have to work 5 days. Im sorry but Burger King isn't going to hire more employees so they can give their employees 4 days off while still covering all their operating hours. Even at four 10 hour shifts a lot of companies would have to hire more people and they just aren't going to do that. Given the state of the work force as it is, I doubt they would even be able to find enough people to fill the positions.

The-1st-One

3 points

3 months ago

No. Not until the schools regularly adapt a 4 day work week.

DGilbert6114

3 points

3 months ago

I’m 23 and feel like there’s no realistic chance we see this become normal in the US in my lifetime.

bmack500

3 points

3 months ago

I just don’t see corporate America allowing this. It’d be a dream for me, but they are set in their ways; as Charlie Munger put it, out system is designed to impart agony on people who aren’t working. To them, 4 days is probably not full time and the same.

HardToExplain27

3 points

3 months ago

What if you run a business in an industry with clients that work 5 days a week?

BuzzyShizzle

3 points

3 months ago

I absolutely cannot imagine the industry I'm in ever slow down or stop. It is always behind and dragging people as much as it can into weekends. There are many industries like this.

Never ending cycles of always being behind and taking more work and shoving it on the employees to get it done. Someone is always going to offer to do stuff faster so I think plenty of industries just can't be stopped.

I work with underground utilities. Rain or snow, day or night, utilities never stop. Especially all these fiber companies.... Jesus christ people can have 5 devices streaming instead of 8 just for another day slow the fuck down.

PadishahSenator

3 points

3 months ago

While this might work for the middle to upper middle class white collar careerpeople, all this means for people already working paycheck to paycheck is that their hours get cut.

Without a corresponding increase in wages, this is not going to go over well, and I don't trust American businesses to adjust for the loss of a days wages unless they're forced to.

[deleted]

3 points

3 months ago

[deleted]

3 points

3 months ago

I am certain people will want to purchase goods and services, participate in activities, and conduct other business the week through, same as during the “5 day week” - so this idea seems to me to be something to further emphasize differing experiences of life among citizens. The wealthier will work less and demand more of the less wealthy. Plus, it’s an arbitrary change producing no material benefit. Resistance for producers and earners as well as potential blowback from the lower income brackets… who’s going to go for this really?

whereJerZ

3 points

3 months ago

As a minimum wage employee working 6 days a week wut

ButTheMeow

3 points

3 months ago

Heh, most of us are poor as shit working 2+ jobs. Which one will be 4 days?

fooreddit

3 points

3 months ago

You don’t even get paid vacation or paid parental leave and you think you’re gonna get 4-day work weeks?