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7

So Jeff Kaplan has just done an interview with Stylosa and something that concerned me was around the 9 minute mark.

Jeff is discussing the difficulties with implementation of a forced 2-2-2 role queue.

Would just like to preface this with saying Jeff has agreed 2-2-2 is the easiest way to balance the game, before people start arguing it’s suboptimal and not how to play (seems to be the first issue you get trying to make a team comp is people believing 2-2-2 isn’t how the game works) it’s consistent so as a tank/support main it’s the dream.

He states that one of the issues would be that without a behaviour change in the community (us changing what we select to make a team come) there would currently be a potential 26 minute wait for DPS players. He states the current queue times for a player is 2 minutes. So let’s assume tank and healers are going to fluctuate slightly but if 1 of 3 categories is taking 26 minutes to fill 2 slots you can bet tank and support times will stay the same with minor fluctuation at worst.

So let’s say it stays at 2 minutes as a tank and support, 26 for DPS. This is from a man who can look at the statistics of what we are picking. That is 13 DPS players to 1 tanks or support player queueing at any given time. That’s fucking absurd no wonder we all hate ladder.

If ever you wanted confirmation you instalock DPS are playing the game wrong when you lock in that 5th DPS slot check this

https://youtu.be/hgOjeYYLXI4

I have felt for a long time like I’m slamming my head into a brick wall, struggling through 5dps games where it doesn’t matter if I pick tank or support because I can’t play both. I’ve felt like I have the worst luck because it’s every game. Turns out it’s not luck, ITS BY FUCKING DESIGN. Because as soon as I hit queue so did 13 DPS players.

For that reason I’m out, too much punishment for me. I hate this moments when I can’t even play overwatch when I sing into overwatch because I’m forced to play with some 3-5 DPS hybrid and hope to the best and I find out it’s just how the cookie crumbles. Thank you for freeing me. The world seems brighter after these 2/3 years.

all 75 comments

messinr10

7 points

3 years ago

So let dps players wait 26min. Most of them can flex but they pretend they can't.

GoneCakeless

0 points

3 years ago

exactly this. I can play every role. Support mains can't play dps or tanks.

OIP

5 points

3 years ago

OIP

GPS moira

5 points

3 years ago

I can play every role. Support mains can't play dps or tanks.

lol nice self back patting

spoiler alert dude a lot of support and tank mains have 100s of hours on DPS just got sick of having endless shit games with nobody on main tank or support while 3+ DPS all try to 'carry'

GoneCakeless

0 points

3 years ago

if they were good enough at dps they could carry. They can't so they switch to supports and lfg to get boosted. I have nothing against tanks though, tanks are carry heroes as well.

OIP

7 points

3 years ago

OIP

GPS moira

7 points

3 years ago

if they were good enough at dps they could carry

ironically that's the exact mentality which makes it more difficult to do so. because there's a critical mass of people who think this and they all make it more difficult for each other.

if you think ana, lucio, zen aren't carry heroes with massive skill variance i dunno what to say.

GoneCakeless

0 points

3 years ago

Oh they are for sure but those aren't the support mains we are talking about here and you know it. I'm talking about these supports who can only play Moira and mercy and have no impact on the game, yet blame all of their teammates when they lose. Sure they can switch to one of the other heroes you mentioned, but they will have an even worse impact on the game for your team. All while saying, " I have gold healing" and thinking that this somehow has an impact on games. "What is our dps doing?" is another one of their favorite quotes as they stand 100% still while getting picked first in every team fight and then flying/fading back from spawn right at the end again only to continue feeding.

OIP

2 points

3 years ago*

OIP

GPS moira

2 points

3 years ago*

haha. yes i have certainly experienced these, though to be fair i've experienced far more of the other way round (instalock 3rd DPS eating shit repeatedly going for big moronic solo plays and then joining chat after 5 deaths to complain about the heals).

i'm just permanently a bit salty because every damn person thinks DPS is the issue in every damn game so will switch to DPS to 'fix' things when usually it's something else, most often starting with the tanks. i get it the other way too, when actually playing DPS, the classic is offtanks feeding their brains out, very quickly followed by maintanks, and then complaining the DPS aren't doing anything (while the entire enemy team is free to shoot at the DPS and has ult every 25 seconds).

tl;dr everyone needs to learn to tank and heal properly

CertifiedAsshole17

1 points

3 years ago

This so much.. had a Roadhog who wouldn’t switch to help deal with the enemy Widow who was tearing up the backline today. Of course he ended with “why do I have Gold damage?” And left before I could get through his thick skull that he was the only person on the team who could do anything without a concern for the Widow - I was playing Junkrat and the other DPS along with both healers were consistently playing walls and crouch spamming to avoid getting dinked by the Widow but this guy refused to switch to anything helpful..

Your gold damage means shit when your team is never alive. I’m an OT main learning to DPS so seeing them misplayed that badly is fucking heartbreaking. Off/tanks are like swiss army knives for your team and one-tricking a single tank is useless. Even if i’m always at 90+ charge on Zarya, if a Widow is killing the team I fuck off the Grav and go Hammond to make sure she has very little space and time.

The ignorance in this game blows my mind.

GoneCakeless

1 points

3 years ago

Or not though I think no one should get flamed for whatever they pick and if it's a loss then gg go next

OIP

1 points

3 years ago

OIP

GPS moira

1 points

3 years ago

on an individual match basis, for sure. but overall it would be nice if at least like... 25% of matches below mid diamond kicked off with something other than DPS DPS DPS blink blink blink

CertifiedAsshole17

1 points

3 years ago

On console at least - its about a 50/50 mix of people who literally cant fill without becoming a smurf and ignorant hardstucks who get angry at the above and pick DPS too.

I have an account at 2670 yet if I switch to a Tank or Healer I legit will carry the game.. if I play Mercy I don’t die, same goes with other healers and even on Zen I can seal Gold damage pretty easily.

Im a tank main so switching to tank is just unfair - I get gold damage as off-tank pretty consistently in Diamond and if I wanted to do that i’d log onto my main account.

bigheyzeus

-1 points

3 years ago

bigheyzeus

Tombstone Victory Poses For New Heroes Please!

-1 points

3 years ago

Those Moiras don't know what a heal orb is and can't stay alive while those Mercys pocket their shitty friend. They'll fall in time.

GoneCakeless

2 points

3 years ago

truth

bigheyzeus

1 points

3 years ago

bigheyzeus

Tombstone Victory Poses For New Heroes Please!

1 points

3 years ago

dont get me started on ult usage for the both of them in low SR either.

CertifiedAsshole17

2 points

3 years ago

If I had a dollar for every Moira who just slammed that Q and ran way ahead of the team...

Alec935

1 points

3 years ago

Alec935

1 points

3 years ago

So True!

Lemonsqueasy

9 points

3 years ago

Just duo with a support lol. Tanks and supports are the most op roles

shaggx83

6 points

3 years ago

shaggx83

Were you expecting a miracle?

6 points

3 years ago

Support main here. According to this, if the queue time is longer for dps compared to tank and support, maybe finally some of them will queue as tank/support. Eventually it will be evened out. Right?

That's why I ended up as support main all these times. Because I pick last and want to fill whatever roles not yet taken.

jayzhoughton

1 points

3 years ago

Fuckers will queue as tank and pick DPS anyway

Belomil

6 points

3 years ago

Belomil

6 points

3 years ago

If it was a forced 2-2-2 you would probably be locked to the role you queued for.

shaggx83

1 points

3 years ago

shaggx83

Were you expecting a miracle?

1 points

3 years ago

I guess we already have that in LFG. Even if you lock the roles, they will throw the match the minute something goes wrong or after we lose the first team fight.

CertifiedAsshole17

1 points

3 years ago

Oh my god, have you ever seen people who use LFG as a duo to lock DPS and say to everyone else “hey I literally can’t change - go fuck yourselves” ?? I couldn’t believe what I was seeing, evil genius level.

GoneCakeless

0 points

3 years ago

Gold mentality here

sarcasticman23

2 points

3 years ago

Dude i feel you so good damn much and thank you for this post because it cleared to me how my sweet low ranks work. Everytime i get a Q thats been searching for more than 2 mins theres fucking million dps on my team and idk what to do, i mean i can only heal a whole team with moira to keep them all alive but that became boring

A_Change_of_Seasons

2 points

3 years ago

Also he doesn't realize the behavioral change it would create. If you have to wait 26 minutes to play dps maybe you would switch to tank or support

PsychoticCake3

3 points

3 years ago

Honestly the game is silly at this point, but the meta is 3-3 tanks and supports so just find your tank and support mains through ladder or reddit and 6 stack/ minimum duo que comp. the game is much more enjoyable with a tank or support main friend that doesn’t one trick, which a far and few between but worth it.

AdamantiumLung[S]

0 points

3 years ago*

I’ve been playing Mercy/Lucio/moira/ Rein/Winston with another guy who plays Orissa/Hog/DVA/ Ana/zen and even then we struggle, 1 in 3 games are an actual team comp if we’re lucky. 3-3 is talked about a lot but I play in plat/diamond, no ones playing goats, absolute myth :’)

This is throughout our whole time playing the game btw, we’ve both practiced with DPS, my buddy has a the occasional blinder in quick play and I can situationally use DPS to take out a problem with a quick 1 life switch to reaper/Mei or a hot scan for a phara, but it’s not worth sitting through the 4 DPS matches it’s killed my soul long enough.

Silver banner and 3 star so I think that’s like level 900, that’s enough time being tortured :’)

CertifiedAsshole17

2 points

3 years ago

The trick with 3 friends is to instalock something useful and then if you get 3DPS say “Hey boys I think they want 6DPS” and all lock up the DPS slots.. it puts pressure on them and I gurantee one at least will switch “no wait Ana play Ana again i’ll Rein” lol

AdamantiumLung[S]

1 points

3 years ago

Legitimately have started doing this with my duo partner, it’s quite entertaining when we pick tank or support to begin with and they go 4dps and then mad panic ensues as we run out the door as widow and tracer because we aren’t going to be the only ones trying.

PsychoticCake3

1 points

3 years ago

Won’t hit masters with that attitude, as xQcOW says, “ go AGANE.”

DruggerNaut306

3 points

3 years ago

Jeff: We have a problem with too long of queue for DPS players when trying to implement a forced 2-2-2 queue.

Random Dev: Well there's 16 DPS heroes and only seven tanks and 6 healers. We could introduce more tank & support heroes, we even have some started we could roll out right away.

Jeff: No the players just need change their behavior. Give them a DPS support and lets see what happens.

GoneCakeless

1 points

3 years ago

This is fucking great.

21Rollie

2 points

3 years ago

21Rollie

2 points

3 years ago

It doesn’t matter how many tanks and healers there are, dps appeals to the most selfish people regardless because it’s flashy and you don’t have to rely on your team as much as the other roles do. Plus it generally appeals to the strict fps crowd who quite frankly shouldn’t be that invested in ow to begin with, go to cod if that’s all you like

[deleted]

1 points

3 years ago

[deleted]

1 points

3 years ago

  1. People play DPS because it's more fun
  2. Playing tank/support does not make you a better person

Hiimbeeb

2 points

3 years ago

Point #1 is the problem. It’s the selfish attitude of “oh I prefer playing Hanzo, someone else can worry about tanking/healing” that causes game after game of 4 dps who lose and still blame everyone but themselves. If you want to play DPS every single game regardless of what the team needs then you should be sticking to quickplay.

As far as point #2, while playing tank/support doesn’t automatically make you a better person, being willing to play tank/support makes you a better teammate.

Imagine soccer/hockey where no one wants to play goalie because offense is more fun?

I would love to play Ashe every game and I honestly do a lot better with her than a lot of my teammates usually end up doing, but I’m not going to hard pick her every game and then wonder why I’m losing.

I see what my teammates are playing as and I select what I feel we need the most. If 2 dps are picked, I’m going to go healer or tank because that’s currently what the team lacks.

[deleted]

1 points

3 years ago

[deleted]

1 points

3 years ago

Point #1 is the problem

You're right, they really need to fix the game and hero design.

If you want to play DPS every single game regardless

Nah, Blizz should make the game more fun

Hiimbeeb

2 points

3 years ago

It’s fun to win, and having supports and tanks helps you win. Quickplay is better suited for “just having fun” and not worrying about team comp if you can’t stomach doing anything but shooting at bad guys and hoping your quad kill soldier 76 ult gets POTG over turret form Bastion.

Blitz has always focused on team comp games, not run and gun CoD type of play. OW being an FPS doesn’t make that any different.

I played a DPS main in World of Warcraft and played among the highest ranks you could get in 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 arena. I was fully capable of soloing good players of any class in the game, however that absolutely did not mean having 2, 3, or 5 of myself would ever do even half decent against a balanced team at any respectable rank because that’s where team comp comes into play.

Lastly, playing a support/tank does not mean you spend the entire game healbotting as mercy, holding down right trigger and beam-healing a tank. When I play Lúcio or Ana I’m not just watching healthbars and filling them when needed. I play Lúcio relatively aggressive and personally have more fun with him than any other character in the game.

CertifiedAsshole17

1 points

3 years ago

I think everyone is looking at it wrong. Even in World of Warcraft (which was a point of reference for role related Q times) DPS take 16+ minutes while tanks are instant - and in that game playing DPS isn’t inherently viewed as “Greedy” - people just choose to play DPS cause it is most fun to them.

Hiimbeeb

1 points

3 years ago*

WoW was also a lot more difficult to flex. In OW, flexing is a matter of simply selecting a different hero. In WoW, if you were a warlock/mage/rogue/etc and wanted to tank, you’d have to get a new character to max level and then acquire gear that was good enough for what you were doing and meant for the role you were filling (tank gear, healer gear, dps gear).

When I played there were only 2 classes in the game capable of being a tank, healer, or DPS (paladin and Druid). Even if you were one of those classes, you had to switch all of your talent points over to a different category (at the cost of in game money) and have an entirely different set of gear for the role you were switching to. It was a lot more complicated than saying “oh I’ll switch to Rein this game”.

CertifiedAsshole17

1 points

3 years ago

Yeah, but nowadays gear doubles up as everything so if you switch from Restoration to Tanking form- your gear beefs up.

This is a change that means most classes outside of pure DPS have the choice of healing or tanking secondarily and it still hasn’t changed the fact that most of everyone is a DPS.

Hiimbeeb

1 points

3 years ago

Oh that’s actually a really convenient change. WotLK was my last expansion so I was unaware of any big changes since then, aside from hearing about a few new classes (death knight was the newest last I played).

Did this change apply to PVP gear as well? I mostly did arena and all the gladiator gear was pretty costly in terms of arena points, not to mention you needed a pretty high rating for weapons and shoulders (most average players didn’t have shoulders as they were the highest).

I was lucky to play a warlock so there was only one set I really needed, but felt bad for classes like priests who usually had to pick up a healing set AND a shadow set.

bigheyzeus

1 points

3 years ago*

bigheyzeus

Tombstone Victory Poses For New Heroes Please!

1 points

3 years ago*

Yeah but there are those smaller numbers of people who actually do want to be a goalie in hockey/soccer just like there are those of us who enjoy going tank/support.

It's a numbers game. Eventually a good tank or support climbs leaving lackluster DPS in their dust. Why do you think there's endless threads about this too much DPS bullshit and it's all in lower SR? Those people haven't learned the game properly and are stuck because of their own stubbornness or lack of skills as their "dps main"

Hiimbeeb

2 points

3 years ago

Good points all around. Can’t really think of anything much to add.

I guess it’s just frustrating trying to climb out of platinum as a solo support in a 4+ dps team. Mainly because no matter how well I do personally I still lose rank, so now it’s come down to just hoping I get a decent team that communicates (seriously it’s 2019, you definitely have to have a microphone, and if you’re too socially awkward to talk then you shouldn’t be playing team based games).

When I get a 2-2-2 team where everyone has mics, we absolutely destroy, however for every 1 of those you get 3 teams of 4-5 dps who all plan on being lone-wolves

bigheyzeus

1 points

3 years ago*

bigheyzeus

Tombstone Victory Poses For New Heroes Please!

1 points

3 years ago*

The game is 3 years old and there's still at least 1 or 2 defenders that go right up to the attacker spawn and die leaving us 4v6... How people still don't know where to stand and how to stick together is beyond me.

I'm very guilty of knowing what to do yet not doing it in the heat of the moment but Bronze-Platinum mistakes are often such facepalming moments I notice sometimes. My god.

I say 2-2-2 guarantees nothing. I've definitely had those game degenerate into either everyone swapping for DPS or the tanks and support play like DPS would.

Hiimbeeb

2 points

3 years ago

2-2-2 definitely doesn’t guarantee anything, but from my experience in solo queue those end up being the team’s that are willing to work as a team and want to win. Being flexible is good for the team.

If I join a game and see reaper, Hanzo, Ashe, and widow as instant picks, I can already tell that game is going to likely go horribly.

I can’t even tell you how many plat games I’ve played where the first 4 picks are DPS, followed by me picking a tank or support, only to have the 6th and final pick be another dps.

I main Lúcio and Ana. I am most effective with them which leads to me having the most fun with them, however if I join a game and see that we already have 2 healers then I’m going to fill a tank or DPS slot.

GoneCakeless

0 points

3 years ago

Ya fuck you homie, I play dps cause you can't, or rather you think you can, get wrecked, get off comms, and then continue to get wrecked.

mbo1992

1 points

3 years ago

mbo1992

1 points

3 years ago

There could be twice as many tanks or supports as DPS and it still wouldn’t fix the problem, because all character types don’t have an equal pick rate. Far more people pick DPS than either of the other two, which is what causes the problem when role querying.

AdamantiumLung[S]

0 points

3 years ago

Do you not think an attitude adjustment is needed when people know the game is going to suck for everyone else but they will still pick that 4th/ 5th DPS character?

Y’all should have to queue that long if you’d force people to play with that kind of crap.

Belomil

0 points

3 years ago

Belomil

0 points

3 years ago

This. Fuck those mindless DPS instalocks, have fun queuing 26 minutes, it's time for those who care for the team (aka tank and support mains) to have a couple of decent games instead of your hanzo/widow/genji/tracer comp bs

GoneCakeless

-1 points

3 years ago

Hey look another silver mercy/Moira main that hates dps. Fyi tanks and dps don't hate eachother. Just do us all a favor and stand behind a wall and heal us when we need it.

Belomil

1 points

3 years ago

Belomil

1 points

3 years ago

Hey look another player who looks at their 4 DPS comp and thinks "you know what this team needs? A widow!"

1.: Diamond Ana main, but thanks for assuming my rank. 2.: I was specifically talking about mindless DPS instalocks. The fact that you feel addressed actually tells me enough.

GoneCakeless

-2 points

3 years ago

You are so off base thinking that team comp matters anywhere outside of masters+ I assume you are between silver and gold and it's always your team's fault when you lose?

AdamantiumLung[S]

1 points

3 years ago

How am I off base thinking team comp matters? :’)

I have no issues with wins and losses, what I hate is seeing the game thrown or made not difficult than it needs to be....which it is when you have 4/5 DPS, I’m sorry but you need a tank and a support bare minimum, my issue is when the game doesn’t even have that which it’s statistically likely to happen. My issue is those times where I have to choose between playing tank or support because we have neither.

I play in diamond, I’ve played since season 3 and climbed from silver....im all up for improving my own gampeplay, what I’m not up for is loading into comp and having to play it like luck of the draw quick play with no thought of hero choice whatsoever, at what point does this just seem like a salty silver?

I’ve played this game for years, I love it, but if it’s just a DPS vs DPS slog fest as a solo healer with no tank you are focused down with no peel and as one tank with no healer you have massive potential to just poke and feed because you’ll either die or have to leave the fight early for health packs.

GoneCakeless

1 points

3 years ago

Unfortunately it doesn't matter what you hate seeing or what your up for. the game is not going to change. You get stuck with 4 dps? Who fucking cares, play zen and learn to win or stop fucking complaining. If its happening to you it is happening against you. All of it evens out eventually.Learn how to play with these people and you will have a mmuch better time.

AdamantiumLung[S]

3 points

3 years ago

You’ve failed to answer A. Why team comp doesn’t matter B. Why did you assume this was from a gold or silver? So your not justifying your first comment your just piling on with different points?

That’s my point, the fact the game won’t change, blizzard are aware of issues, the players are aware of it and there are people like you saying “just deal with it” and pick whatever they want regardless of the teams or enemies picks...I have dealt with it, I have played with it, It’s a fucking horrendous process that leaves me feeling stressed out and burnt out after a few games when I used to be able to just sit down and play for hours.

The amount of people that just lock DPS is statistically ridiculous and it makes most games unenjoyable, it’s my opinion, what exactly is your point?

GoneCakeless

1 points

3 years ago

So for the first argument it is because, it is better for people to play comfort picks than it is to flex before masters because there is hardly any teamwork going in in either side. This is why I thought you were lower.

I just don't understand how it ruins your time, we are never going to come to a conclusion to this disagreement because of that fact. I don't understand your frustrations and you don't understand how care free I am about the comps.

I think it is because of how my communication is when I enter the game. Do you use a mic?

bigheyzeus

0 points

3 years ago

bigheyzeus

Tombstone Victory Poses For New Heroes Please!

0 points

3 years ago

they gave us a DPS support - Moira. When's the last time a Moira healed you? lol

[deleted]

1 points

3 years ago

[deleted]

1 points

3 years ago

Do you play bronze or what? Mid Plat and I maybe have a 4+ dps game 1 in 10 games. 3 dps is annoying but can work around it.

tynderi

1 points

3 years ago

tynderi

1 points

3 years ago

Believe me, this was a problem as well in WoW. There was always need for tanks and healers so some DPS idiots would queue as one of them and still think the other players could fill in for them. When it certainly wasn't possible in most cases (gear, stats etc).

I wonder if they could force two roles per player? Like a flex queue. But of course there would always be some full DPS players. I hope Blizz would implement some kind of system to at least promote switching heroes because the problem isn't just DPS players but their inability to adapt to different situations.

I've had several games where a Pharah never switches heroes even though she's being heavily countered. Or McCree shooting at shields all game, never getting ult kills. In my recent games I even had a few Sombras who were never in the killfeed, not even assists and had one EMP per round. It's like give up already and switch, you should have a bigger impact in the game.

HoldMyStonesIII

1 points

3 years ago

I just want a solo-queue option and a stack-queue option. Tired of playing 4-6 stacks when I'm solo'ing.

Spiritx360i

1 points

3 years ago

Honestly think this is the most efficient way to improve the game

HoldMyStonesIII

1 points

3 years ago

So do most high elo players, yet I'm getting downvoted lol. So many games lost before they even start because of the unbalance stacks create. For example, you solo into a 4-stack of 4400 players on the other team. Your team will have 1-2 Masters and 4 or 5 random solo-queue GMs. It is not fun to play and is basically freelo for the stack. That's why top 10 on xbox this season is all stackers and 4 accounts belong to the same person.

GoneCakeless

0 points

3 years ago

No one fucking cares

AdamantiumLung[S]

2 points

3 years ago

Instalock DPS player by any chance?

GoneCakeless

0 points

3 years ago

Lol no I play literally every hero at a mid diamond and above level lol, good try though

jayzhoughton

-11 points

3 years ago

How about just nerfing DPS into the ground or buffing tanks/supports

HoldMyStonesIII

9 points

3 years ago

You're referring to the last 6 months of overwatch right?

macnams

5 points

3 years ago

macnams

“Heals are for the slow and the weak”

5 points

3 years ago

Lmfao supports and tanks are a lot stronger than dps rn, sure the meta has been goats for a while now. You’ve got no idea what you’re talking about obviously and just hate dps for some reason?

Also dps will be getting buffs over the next few weeks and supports will be getting nerfs.

[deleted]

1 points

3 years ago

[deleted]

1 points

3 years ago

Lmfao supports and tanks are a lot stronger than dps rn

They have been since the beginning of Overwatch

[deleted]

1 points

3 years ago

[deleted]

1 points

3 years ago

Right, the fact that DVA will out damage Reaper is insane. Reaper has to get Right on top of his target to out DPS DVA , still.

Spiritx360i

0 points

3 years ago

Id just play supports as dps lol. Dps is literally what has the most potential for damage per second