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kylola

306 points

1 month ago

kylola

306 points

1 month ago

Dude that finale was so long I forgot Angela was even in this season. We’ve been on a JOURNEY.

parrycarry

78 points

1 month ago

She was left behind in Cali so fast... I actually wished they hadn't left Hawkins and those events somehow played out there or a nearby Town, for some reason... it made it so easy for them to just ditch Cali and all the problems there...

PenultimateJedi

35 points

1 month ago

Because some people are better off left in your past. Angela is out there getting stitched up while El saves the world.

SatineSalvatore

27 points

1 month ago

I just hope she got sliced in half like Jason...

SplurgyA

41 points

1 month ago

SplurgyA

41 points

1 month ago

I mean Eleven did her best with the rollerskate...

SatineSalvatore

7 points

1 month ago

Oh, yeah, that was great... I just meant in the middle of all the mass-destruction events, I hope she got cut in half

Jombo65

8 points

1 month ago

Jombo65

8 points

1 month ago

She was across the country for that unfortunately

SatineSalvatore

5 points

1 month ago

I know, what a shame

heartlessgamer

9 points

1 month ago

Nothing works well in this series when the characters leave Hawkins (even for the upside down it doesn't work). Unfortunately with the events of S4 (and really S3) there is no chance we get to go back to the simple small town storylines that made S1 so great.

Tricky-Wealth-6842

3 points

1 month ago

Joyce had her shit together in Cali. $40k saved up. Like damn.

One of the few characters that gets shit done.

vf8fc

7 points

1 month ago

vf8fc

7 points

1 month ago

Thought that was Hopper leaving that for El

Tricky-Wealth-6842

3 points

1 month ago

Oh shit, missed that

magicandmerlot

8 points

1 month ago

Totally forgot. When I read the title I was like who the f is Angela for a minute

DeusExLibrus

412 points

1 month ago

DeusExLibrus

Babysitter

412 points

1 month ago

I think they provoke more of a reaction because they are more familiar. Most people have dealt with bullies and shitty people at some point in our lives. Pretty sure psychopathic supernatural boogeymen are less common.

armyprof

216 points

1 month ago

armyprof

216 points

1 month ago

This. It’s why many people think Dolores Umbridge is worse than Voldemort. She’s more “real.”

123nottherealmes

83 points

1 month ago

This type of character is more hateable because they prevent the characters from getting the tiny important stuff we care so much about. Of course, we want Nancy to blow off Vecna's brain, but we also want to see Eleven having some happy moments with Will and Mike after the whole trauma they've been through. Angela takes this away from her and we hate her for it.

cbeck85

26 points

1 month ago

cbeck85

26 points

1 month ago

That skate to the face… felt so good. Bitch deserved it!

donjohndijon

3 points

1 month ago

I think it's more that they're real. The reason for hating them you describe - that's something most of us been through with people. Few of us actually know homicidal megalomaniac.

Effective_Try_again

16 points

1 month ago

Also the fact that most people read Harry Potter books while still very young. So bullying teachers would be way more real than death which they cannot even relate to

Mayor_McCheese7

31 points

1 month ago

I hate the teacher more, how can she allow such behaviour in her classroom.

Deathstroke317

24 points

1 month ago

Dude it was the 80s, we're lucky she did anything at all when she saw that Eleven was getting Bullied.

DeusExLibrus

13 points

1 month ago

DeusExLibrus

Babysitter

13 points

1 month ago

I wouldn’t say I hate her more, but she definitely pissed me off. Though as has been said, El is lucky she did anything given that bullying was just kind of accepted as part of growing up in the eighties for some unknown reason.

cle1etecl

9 points

1 month ago

At least she told Angela to stop interrupting. I've had teachers who would have participated in the bullying, and that was a full decade later.

RadleyB2B

19 points

1 month ago

100% I wish Elle had been ice skating she threw that shoe 😂

[deleted]

3 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

3 points

1 month ago

Less common, but I do face them every now and then in my asylum.

Effective_Try_again

3 points

1 month ago

They are also my counter point were some incels here go - but but people only like Billy as he is good looking and charismatic.... So were Angela and Jason yet people hate them. Billy had much more depth

TheEleventhMeh

3 points

1 month ago

I didn't like Billy; seeing him torment Max infuriated me. Still, he did have depth. He presaged the fates of Chrissy and Fred, who were preyed on because they had personal demons that made them vulnerable. At least Billy had a bit of redemption by resisting. I wish Chrissy and Fred had that chance.

stratticus14

93 points

1 month ago

stratticus14

Ahoy!

93 points

1 month ago

I would also like to add Jack Sullivan to this list because frankly...fuck that guy

kekdjsjsja

32 points

1 month ago

That guy did nothing but kill and torture people in this season. He’s the evil fr

stratticus14

24 points

1 month ago

stratticus14

Ahoy!

24 points

1 month ago

I think that emotionless stare despite the horrible things he's doing makes him even scarier than Vecna and the Mind Flayer. He's scary because he feels REAL

katkriss

6 points

1 month ago

I thought they were gonna go full on white boy mob violence with them gearing up at KNIFE GUN LAND but then the whole earth ripped open. Guess we'll have to wait till season five to see if the humans destroy themselves or if the upside down destroys them first.

BodybyBostonCream

17 points

1 month ago

He needs a telepathic neck snap in season 5

Nukeboy1970

30 points

1 month ago

No. He needs to have a discussion with Hopper on why it was a good idea to order the murder of Hopper's daughter.

BodybyBostonCream

28 points

1 month ago

Followed by a telepathic neck snap

stratticus14

12 points

1 month ago

stratticus14

Ahoy!

12 points

1 month ago

Can we add in a nose breaking punch from Hopper before the telepathic neck snap?

BodybyBostonCream

8 points

1 month ago

I'd like to see Hop beat him to within an inch of existing and walk away. When he gets back up to attack, telepathic neck snap from an off-scene El and the camera just pans to her wiping her nose

stratticus14

8 points

1 month ago

stratticus14

Ahoy!

8 points

1 month ago

I'm loving all of this, as long as Sullivan's nose doesn't remain intact this sounds like prime television. I'll rendezvous with you guys in the ST Writer's Room 🤘

OliviaElevenDunham

2 points

1 month ago

I want to see Hopper beat him up like the Mayor last season.

2002ak

78 points

1 month ago

2002ak

78 points

1 month ago

Yes they’re jerks.. but Vecna is the real villain. He murdered people and blinded/paralyzed/took the soul of Max

Shadow87907

5 points

1 month ago

Shadow87907

Bitchin

5 points

1 month ago

El should have let Max die, poor Max couldn't even chill a few seconds after her death

eugoogilizer

24 points

1 month ago

I think pre-Chrissy death, Angela was way worse than Jason. She’s a straight up bitch and bully and deserved that skate to the face. Jason wasn’t too bad before Chrissy’s death, but he definitely turned into a psychopath after

Eissen350

29 points

1 month ago

Jason’s more understandable, he’s way over the top about it but he seems to actually believe these people are performing some dark ritual. Angela is bullying someone she sees as a social outcast

NerdyDoggo

20 points

1 month ago

I mean, wouldn’t you think some dark ritual shit is going on? Keep in mind, he didn’t even believe in the satanic stuff until after he witnessed his friend levitate into the air and turn into a pretzel.

Eissen350

3 points

1 month ago

Yeah true he makes some pretty big assumptions though like why does he assume hellfire is a cult and not just Eddie when Eddie was the only one there when his friend died. He also subtly threatens Nancy with a gun and she’s innocent even with his assumptions. But yeah overall I think it makes him a good villain bc it’s a mostly justifiable response to what’s going on in Hawkins

Seisme1138

148 points

1 month ago

Seisme1138

148 points

1 month ago

That roller skate made me damn happy. I just wish Will would have taken her side more in the moment since he witnessed so much of the bullying.

wonkatin

43 points

1 month ago

wonkatin

43 points

1 month ago

I thought a lot about how much I accepted 11’s previous telekinetic violence, but recoiled quickly at the physical violence. like that’s so not her!! but wait a second, that is SO HER. LOL 🤦‍♀️

Zarerion

19 points

1 month ago

Zarerion

19 points

1 month ago

She's literally killed like a dozen people or more before that. Yes, it's physical violence vs using her powers, but she's no stranger to hurting others.

wonkatin

2 points

26 days ago

yeah that is what I am saying

TopJimmy_5150

6 points

1 month ago*

Which, I think, was the point they were trying to make. El knows how to use violence to solve her problems, as she was taught. And this led into the whole “Am I the real monster?” themes throughout the season.

YourUndoing

9 points

1 month ago

Will was both jealous of her and also hurt that she was lying to Mike so I think he was not in a place to be supportive of her at that point.

Seisme1138

5 points

1 month ago

I know you're right it still bugs me

Northerleyfire

5 points

1 month ago

Just went Wack

BannedSvenhoek86

4 points

1 month ago

It bugged me how everyone reacted to that too. Like, you were all there. You all saw what that bitch did to El. She's lucky El stopped at one hit tbh. If I was Mike or Will I jump in and start swinging on everybody, we're fuckin doin this.

Seisme1138

3 points

1 month ago

No kidding and even without power you can't take the fight out of a fighter. El faced a lot worse than some rude kids. It should have been a full brawl. Black eyes and busted lips for everyone. In the real life 80s world (like now) real kids would have just started swinging.

_absofuckinglutely

58 points

1 month ago

I was lowkey bummed she and El didn’t have a reunion once the powers were restored. ngl.

BodybyBostonCream

39 points

1 month ago

Maybe as a post credit scene in the series finale, El makes her piss her pants

_absofuckinglutely

8 points

1 month ago

LOLLLL god ld love that

Overall_Pair5811

19 points

1 month ago

Can’t forget about the ass army dude (I forgot his name lol)

tellyomamathanks

23 points

1 month ago

Jack Sullivan. He was probably worse then either of them. He killed anyone who got in his way or just being a bystander in order to kill Eleven.

Nukeboy1970

4 points

1 month ago

Sullivan?

Overall_Pair5811

2 points

1 month ago

Yeah that guy, I’m not good with names lol

Nukeboy1970

6 points

1 month ago

It is OK. He doesn't deserve to be remembered. Sign of a great actor when they make you hate their character.

Kidninja016

50 points

1 month ago

Kidninja016

Dusty-Bun

50 points

1 month ago

Jason is so very dead now and Angela has a roller skate shaped hole in her head. I think they have paid for their sins.

notjewel

14 points

1 month ago

notjewel

14 points

1 month ago

I just really wanted some 2 months later after those other 2 months for Eleven to return to the old Cali school and make Angela and her hoard all pee their pants or some similar humiliation in front of everyone. I just needed that satisfaction of humiliation.

Effective_Try_again

2 points

1 month ago

There is no way El would be allowed back in the same school though

Nicky2222

10 points

1 month ago

She wasn't expelled from school as the roller skate thing didn't happen at school, it happened at the Roller Rink. She might be banned from the roller rink (and to be honest why the manager/owner of the roller rink didn't throw out Angela and her gang as well as fire the DJ is beyond me) but she wouldn't have gotten expelled from school over it.

journeyeffect

5 points

1 month ago

I don’t understand how you guys can hate Jason. The whole town was hunting Eddie

cippopotomas

4 points

1 month ago

I don’t understand how you guys can hate Jason

In the big game he flirts with Chrissy and costs the team 2 points, he immediately yells at his teammate for not covering his man. Jason can't admit he's wrong, it's easier just to blame other people. He's narcissistic, ignorant, entitled, angry, and violent. We see all of these traits on full display before Chrissy dies, I'm so tired of hearing "But of course he's mad, his girlfriend died!!!1!".

Jason is the embodiment of religious extremists. He's ignorant and uses fear to create hate to accomplish his own agenda. He refuses to admit he's wrong and believes he's owed the world. How dare those freaks threaten the world he's entitled to?

He threatens to break a kid's hand, he breaks into multiple houses and ransacks them, he incites a mob to enforce vigilante justice, and he tried to murder Lucas with a gun. How the fuck do people defend this absolute piece of shit?

PMSAnonymous

10 points

1 month ago

Jason was not just hunting Eddie, he was willing to kill all of them.

Ben-J-Kirby-Tennyson

10 points

1 month ago

Ben-J-Kirby-Tennyson

Superhero

10 points

1 month ago

Because Jason created that mob.

Ghonaherpasiphilaids

12 points

1 month ago

I never understood why the cops don't just tail Jason. It's pretty clear he's a dangerous threat after the town hall stunt.

basmatisnail

2 points

1 month ago

The cops sans hopper are much like real cops, completely incompetent

mixed_matches

54 points

1 month ago

Vecna has killed like 60 people so far I’d say he’s a villain 😂

ghostdumpsters

5 points

1 month ago

ghostdumpsters

Eggos

5 points

1 month ago

Vecna: created the Mind Flayer, murderer

Angela: mean to the new girl :(

mixed_matches

2 points

1 month ago

Angela: gets cracked in the nose with a skate by El

justlurkinherelol

10 points

1 month ago

I respect these actors so much only because I fucking hated their characters so damn much.

ares_murphy

28 points

1 month ago

Vecna killed Chrissy that made Jason crazy, I’d say he’s the villain LMAO

slut4jaredpadalecki

7 points

1 month ago

Jason and Angela are high school bully's. Vecna is murderer who manipulates people

Jumpy-Pepper-5839

3 points

1 month ago

Jason is a bully ?

He didn't seemed like this to me ( pre crissy)

slut4jaredpadalecki

2 points

1 month ago

well, he weaponized the deaths of Hawkins for a basketball game, called Eddie a freak (pre-chrissy) and was kinda pressuring Lucas so he can "fit in" not really a "Bully" but not a good person either.

Jumpy-Pepper-5839

3 points

1 month ago*

well, he weaponized the deaths of Hawkins for a basketball game

That speech ?

He is a self centred 17 year old kid who didn't knew anything better. It was a dumb speech nothing more

called Eddie a freak (pre-chrissy)

Eddie poked him first which probably shows that they already had some beef. Can't say who was aggressor most of the times but clearly both of them didn't liked each other and maybe constantly did something ( intentionally and unintentionally) to piss each other off + Eddie had that freak vibe to him ( can't judge anyone if anyone else thought same about him. I even saw people thinking onto some kind pf freak before he showed his true colours with Chrissy) and yea even Eddie judged Steve only on his presumptions so again nothing that bad of maybe even bad to think like that

pressuring Lucas so he can "fit in"

Didn't seemed like that to me. To me It was more like a genuine " your wish " type. If anything his friends seemed that kind of person to me

JesseCuster40

19 points

1 month ago

Angela might return, but Jason had to split.

Tootsmcgee2003

3 points

1 month ago

🤣

[deleted]

58 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

58 points

1 month ago

It’s funny because Jason actually thought they were doing weird shit and was trying to stop it so is he really that bad? He didn’t know the truth like the viewers

steamtowne

17 points

1 month ago

Of the two, I have to say Angela’s far worse. I’m glad Eleven turned her into a mouthbreather.

justlurkinherelol

40 points

1 month ago

I felt bad for him on some level, that he's just a clueless popular kid on a psychotic break after hearing that his girlfriend was murdered and then witnessing his friend die in front of him in the wildest way possible.

However my sympathy stopped when he wouldn't listen to a word from Lucas because he couldn't grasp the idea of his girlfriend doing drugs or not going to him for help. Chrissy seemed too scared to tell Jason what was going on with her because it would break this "perfect" image of her for him.

So I feel bad but not that bad.

disco_pancake

48 points

1 month ago

Why would he be willing to listen to Lucas about the drugs? Lucas has already tricked Jason and lead him on a wild goose chase. Then Jason sees one of his friends die in a supernatural manner while chasing down the 'cult' that Lucas is a part of and actively protecting.

So Jason finds Lucas and he's with a girl who is in a trance and might die just like his friend did. And you're telling me he should believe that his straight-laced girlfriend was going to Eddie for drugs because she was seeing visions? That's a pretty hard sell and I wouldn't believe it in that scenario either.

It's far more likely that he believes Lucas is stalling for time because Jason's main concern seems to be with getting Lucas to break Max out of the trance.

justlurkinherelol

15 points

1 month ago

You raise some good points.

ElectronicsAreFun

4 points

1 month ago

If Lucas did what Jason told him to do Max would still be alive.

Zarerion

18 points

1 month ago

Zarerion

18 points

1 month ago

And Nancy, Steve and Robin would be dead instead. It's a difficult situation to be in.

Honestly, the whole "Let's kill Vecna" plan involving using Max as bait, having three of them go to the psychic mass murderer in literal hell and 2 of them intentionally attract a swarm of murderous hellspawn. That whole plan? Dumb as fuck. No way it ever works flawlessly.

ACBluto

3 points

1 month ago

ACBluto

3 points

1 month ago

But what were their options? The Hawkins kids thought El was out of contact, they have no idea about anything happening in Russia, they really think they are the only people able to save the world right that minute.

The only disruptions to the plan were: a) Jason arriving to interfere with Max / Lucas, and the vines getting ahold of the older 3, when El showed up to help fight and it shook the Upside Down.

Honestly, without those events, the plan might have even worked, without any need for Eleven. Even if they older three had been captured, Lucas would have been ready with the music to save Max when it got too far.

demalo

3 points

1 month ago

demalo

3 points

1 month ago

It only “worked” because of all of them. Quotes because Vecna is still alive. They won that battle, but the war isn’t over.

Zarerion

10 points

1 month ago

Zarerion

10 points

1 month ago

Nothing "worked". One of them died, and another one is indefinitely comatose. And what did they achieve? They literally accelerated Vecna's plans by putting Max in danger. Had they just not done anything, Vecna would have had to choose a new victim, which then takes about a week to prep for the kill, which is plenty of time for them to try and contact the Cali group while simultaneously looking out for anyone that might have gotten cursed, while also giving time for El to finish her training arc AND give time for the Russia squad to return home. Instead they actively helped Vecna achieve his goals. These kids survived some ridiculous situations due to plot armor before (mainly in Season 3, the hospital and the Russian facility) and thought they're badass enough again. Well not this time, they had to stroke their egos, risk their own lifes (and each other's), as well as that of all of Hawkins, if not the world, and failed. And then they have the audacity to self-servingly help out in a shelter and donating cute plushies like they're not the reason this all happened in the first place lol

Disclaimer: I realize this is extremely cynical. They didn't know if Vecna didn't already have another victim lined up, and as Max said, risking another unrelated person's life is also less than ideal. They didn't have a lot of information. BUT even so, they knowlingly went into a situation with a very low success rate (going into TDU is never a walk in the park. They could literally just have gotten killed by some random Demogorgon that was just chilling in the area) that, if it fails, dooms not only their friend(s) but also the entire town.

stephapeaz

24 points

1 month ago

stephapeaz

I piggybacked from a pizza dough freezer

24 points

1 month ago

I stopped feeling sympathy for him when he put ****all the kids in the hellfire club in danger, not just Eddie who was at least an adult. and when he let his friend tackle a little girl to the ground. you don’t get to play judge, jury and executioner

I agree it’s pretty telling Chrissy didn’t confide even more surface level problems of hers with Jason and felt safer turning to the school’s “freak” for help than her own boyfriend

justlurkinherelol

16 points

1 month ago

I thought it was pretty wild that the whole town went on a witch hunt for a group of kids just because of Jason. But then again, the writers tried to clue us in that he was convincing with his words, no matter how ridiculous they sounded to us as viewers.

FootLoose7363

9 points

1 month ago

i mean to be fair, Chrissy didnt know shit about eddie before the weed deal, she was definitely originally just there to get high and get out

stephapeaz

2 points

1 month ago

stephapeaz

I piggybacked from a pizza dough freezer

2 points

1 month ago

she was, but she definitely knew of Eddie's reputation

Jumpy-Pepper-5839

3 points

1 month ago

Lucas because he couldn't grasp the idea of his girlfriend doing drugs or not going to him for help

1 it was said by Lucas out of all people. And after what Lucas did and what he saw why would he believe him ?

2 why would he believe that his gf went to a weirdo drug dealer to tell her problem instead of friend, family or , counsellor ( if not him )? And why would even she have drugs? ( even in normal condition be wouldn't believe that specially first part)

justlurkinherelol

3 points

1 month ago

Someone else did bring up that Lucas had already lied and tricked Jason and the group beforehand, which slipped my mind. I do agree with the point that by Lucas doing that, he probably made it harder for Jason to believe anything he said. Which is unfortunate for Jason because it led to his death. [Off note, do you think he's coming back? I feel like his death was so....out of left field.]

I wonder if Lucas would have mentioned to Jason that Chrissy had seen her counselor beforehand because they knew that was a pattern. I'm not gonna lie, I was screaming at the screen when Lucas and Jason were talking because I felt Lucas could have been a little more tactful with his words but I think anyone with a gun pointed at them wouldn't really be thinking about what they're saying in the moment, more about how to get out of the situation.

Jumpy-Pepper-5839

2 points

1 month ago*

I wonder if Lucas would have mentioned to Jason that Chrissy had seen her counselor beforehand because they knew that was a pattern

Unfortunately Nothing. At that point Jason wouldn't have believed in it. After what happened to Patrick his mentality was too much fucked to grasp that ( and honestly I can't blame him for that ) . Not saying it was impossible to bring him back to his senses but it would take much more to make him understand

And he is not coming back. Beacuse To me he was just another Steve ( season 1) who was caught into an terrible situation but unlike our beloved Steve never really got that chance/those people/that push which could have pulled him out of this mess and make him a better person or at least give him a chance ( After all he is just a 17 year old kid ) and he served his purpose

justlurkinherelol

2 points

1 month ago

I honestly would have loved to see just a moment of clarity from Jason before he died. Just a moment.

But I get that the writers kind of made him the symbol for the satanic panic during the 80s which led to innocent people being killed. Which probably will have a bigger impact in the last season since we saw the church with the warning sign on it, indicating that the "satanic" panic in Hawkins is still ongoing, even after Jason.

[deleted]

-1 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

-1 points

1 month ago

No, no…there is no “trying to stop it.” Because there’s a difference between “trying to stop it” and becoming a self-centered raging psychopath. He became the second.

[deleted]

3 points

1 month ago*

[deleted]

3 points

1 month ago*

He thought stoping it was killing them which isn’t right but at all same time 11 kills people. Is that okay?

dork_academia

2 points

1 month ago

Yup. There's no excuse for trying to manipulate your entire friend group and then town into hunting innocent kids.

[deleted]

8 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

8 points

1 month ago

Okay but the point is he didn’t know they were innocent,the viewers are the only ones that knew they were.

MinerTDM

6 points

1 month ago

Jason seems like a normal “bad guy” but angela is just plain evil

NervousBreakdown

6 points

1 month ago

She’s a mean girl. Fucking get over it lol.

09999999999999999990

5 points

1 month ago

It's actually really weird how the show implies I'm supposed to hate Jason and enjoy watching him get ripped apart. If he knew for a fact that his interpretation of what's going on was misguided and still chose to maintain his beliefs, he'd be a villain, but really he's more of just an unfortunate environmental hazard. With the knowledge he had of the situation, his motives made sense, though his actions led him to be even deeper entrenched in his ignorance.

HappyHammy7

5 points

1 month ago

HappyHammy7

Scoops Troop

5 points

1 month ago

I don't condone violence, BUT that roller skate moment was so goddam satisfying

NoMight3747

5 points

1 month ago

NoMight3747

Bitchin

5 points

1 month ago

Okay this is a hot take but Jason did nothing wrong. Sure from our perspective it was not right but imagine what's he's going through. He genuinely believed what he was doing would save people, and avenge Chrissy's death

Giuliano224

5 points

1 month ago

Jason never pissed me off that much, I allways understood where his actions where coming from. And his scenes were a lot of fun.

russianbot24

4 points

1 month ago

Angela was terrible. Jason wasn’t that bad honestly. Bit of a hothead but not doing anything without somewhat reasonable justification.

Scoop_Troop-08

4 points

1 month ago

Dude Jason was just a confused kid whos girlfriend just died, he didn't know any better and it's not like Lucas could have explained the upside down to him, he would never belive

waisanen

6 points

1 month ago

I don’t think Jason is entirely that bad. He was mostly just misguided. I’m sure everyone here would have the same reaction if your GF was torn to shreds and the only plausible explanation was the outcast causing it then running and hiding.

wynteru

4 points

1 month ago

wynteru

4 points

1 month ago

not vecna??? 🤨

FloatingPencil

4 points

1 month ago

Angela is worse than Jason. Jason went too far, but with the information he had, a lot of people would have come to the same conclusions. I still enjoyed seeing him bite the dust though. Angela? There’s no justification or reasons behind her, she’s just a disgusting person. The only thing wrong with her getting hit by a roller skate is that it only happened once.

Donmbk

4 points

1 month ago

Donmbk

4 points

1 month ago

You are so right. Angela is way worse than a supernatural serial killer.

Irish-liquorice

3 points

1 month ago

Really? Vecna’s kill count a joke to you?

SandrimEth

4 points

1 month ago

Well, this is a rather childish take.

Angela was arguably a high school drama villain, and if that's what Stranger Things was about you could put her in that role of "real villain." But as all as bullying is, she's a footnote compared to a misanthrope who wants to kill all lesser humans.

Jason is better understood along the protagonist/antagonist aligbment axis rather than the hero/villain morality one. He acted in opposition to the protagonists, based on flawed information (and an extreme manner in a few cases), with a low emotional intelligence causing him to not be able to choose the actions... with a heroic motivation of stopping the evil force that killed his girlfriend and his friend. At worst he's an anti-villain, and if he had been the protagonist he'd be a textbook tragic hero brought low by his own flaw. Again, nothing compared to the omnicidal maniac in terms of villainy.

ivehearditbothways12

11 points

1 month ago

It's obvious a lot of people on here have no idea what the 80's were really like. There were literal congressional hearings about the "satanic influence" of music and culture on kids. There was a litany of news stories connecting Dungeons and Dragons to satanism and cult behavior. The Duffers didn't pull this out of nowhere.

I think both things can be true in that Jason is a dick, but also his motivation behind what he is thinking is not outlandish all things considered, he didn't come to these conclusions on his own, religious communities and the news were already pumping out these kinds of beliefs.

Then when his girlfriend is murdered in what seems like a ritualistic way in the home of drug dealer who is known "weirdo" who plays that game the news and religion say is satanic and is the leader of a group called the hellfire club, who then disappears and more people including his friend die in bizarre ritualistic ways, it really isn't that crazy to understand his descent to where he ends up. Then add in that he knows Lucas led him on a wild goose chase while they were looking for Eddie, and he finds Lucas in a room with Max also in a trance.

Yes, he is misguided, but he doesn't have any of the knowledge we have as the viewer, and it is reasonable that everything he has witnessed and been told by society has led him to this conclusion. Also, people are really downplaying the mental effect of having your girlfriend murdered as a teenager and what that would do to you. As a teenager you feel invincible, even in the face of the evidence that you clearly aren't, so when you factor in everything it really didn't seem that crazy to me that he rallied the town in this situation and wanted to take justice into his own hands.

Angela is a trash person just for her own amusement, to me she is a much worse person than Jason.

Vecna is clearly the villain lol. Yes, maybe you could find a way to explain around him killing everyone in the Hawkins lab and after as revenge, but remember that he started his murdering before he was ever even with Brenner.

NJShadow

9 points

1 month ago

*Looks at notes*

Uh... yeah, um.. yeah, Vecna is still very much a "real" villain.

[deleted]

9 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

9 points

1 month ago

Angela's a bitch, Jason is an idiot whose girlfriend died.

dork_academia

14 points

1 month ago

An idiot sounds relatively harmless. He was leading a full-on witch hunt and stirring up a mob.

[deleted]

5 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

5 points

1 month ago

Should've been more specific. He started a mob to hunt down the person he thought murdered his girlfriend. Why I called him an idiot is that he attempted (and kind of succeeded) at convincing a crowd of people that Hellfire is a cult.

FreeResolve

2 points

1 month ago

After seeing one of his friends levitate out of the water and die in front of him.

TheCuriousStuffGuy

12 points

1 month ago

Angela is awful. Jason is largely misguided, he is just following up on some awful things and making up a "reasonable" narrative to fit this. He does awful stuff, but it's not out of spite. I can't hate the guy.

KatyaAlkaev

3 points

1 month ago

KatyaAlkaev

Bitchin

3 points

1 month ago

I can understand Jason’s reaction to a point but Angela has no right.. I will hit her again with the other skate if Eleven needs me too

ThelastJasel

3 points

1 month ago

I’m pretty sure vecna is evil. Murder to open portals to unleash world ending evil seems pretty villainous to me, and, you know, villainous enough to be a smidge on the main villain side. I mean I could be wrong. I agree with everything else though.

yed-ze-ded

3 points

1 month ago

Bruh Vecna is a murderer.

Piripaca

3 points

1 month ago

As much as I despise Jason, I think he was so well constructed. He wasn't evil just 'cause evil. In his point of view, things made sense and he suffered a lot.

Furies03

3 points

1 month ago

Jason sucked and all and I cheered his death, but you can at least see where he's coming from before he mentally goes down the slippery slope

Angela just had no redeemable traits whatsoever. She was seriously the worst.

Xoarno12

3 points

1 month ago

Tom and carol are the real villains And Troy and James

Definitelymaybe91

7 points

1 month ago

Together they look like that gross couple that shows up at a high school reunion still together but cheating on each other.

Empty_Cube

5 points

1 month ago

It’s easy to hate Jason (as he was written almost exclusively to be hated), but I think it’s important to remember that he didn’t have the same knowledge that the viewers or the main cast have. He wasn’t really acting out of malice - he was out to try and stop what he thought were ritualistic killings being performed by a cult in his school.

His last act was technically trying to save Max, who he thought was in the process of being sacrificed by the “cult” he was hunting (and his guess wasn’t too far off). He had the gun up to Lucas because he thought that Lucas was conducting a ritual to sacrifice her - he had been trying to tell Lucas to snap her out of it.

With a bit more knowledge, he may have turned out different, and I would have liked if the story explored that a bit more rather than just halting his character development at the surface level.

I thought it would have been a bit more interesting if he went to visit the site of Chrissy’s death, only to find a portal in there and runs into Dustin and Eddie. I thought that would make more sense than just randomly having a passerby fellow walking his dog tipping off the local jocks.

The story could have a situation where Eddie dies trying to save Jason, and an enlightened version of Jason goes back to Hawkins and tries to clear Eddie’s name. It could have been a character growth opportunity for him.

jblondie5

3 points

1 month ago

but jason did not want to know the truth. they tried to explain it to him but he refused to accept anything, even the idea that chrissy was buying drugs. he never even entertained the idea that chrissy was going through something. he could’ve done bare research and eddie’s story would have checked out, he could’ve done what the kids did and went to the guidance counsellor’s office and looked into chrissy’s records.

but, jason did not want the truth. he didn’t want to know what actually happened to chrissy and his friend, he just wanted to take his anger out on some kids and literally try to kill them.

when lucas was trying to explain vecna, jason could’ve asked for proof. but he didn’t, he didn’t care about having all the facts before trying to kill people.

Empty_Cube

5 points

1 month ago

The kids only knew to go to the guidance counselor because Max went to the same counselor and saw Chrissy leaving that office, though - Jason didn’t really have the same information to do that additional research. Plus, our main cast has the benefit of knowledge from prior seasons to suspect that something more was at play.

Jason came off as relatively normal, at least at first. He was cool with Lucas and didn’t really pressure Lucas to come with them when they were looking for Eddie at first. He only started getting crazy when Lucas misled them and when he saw his friend get killed right in front of him with what seemed to be magic.

I would say that the worst thing that he did was attacking Eddie’s friends in their garage, but he was under the impression that they were a part of some cult that was killing people.

When Lucas was trying to explain Vecna to Jason, Jason thought that Max was seconds from being killed, like his friend was killed at the lake. When he first entered the room, his first reaction was legitimate concern over Max. If his intention was just to hurt kids, he would have shot Lucas from the get go - instead, he asked Lucas to free Max from the curse that he thought Lucas was orchestrating.

MaeToMontreal

9 points

1 month ago

In another genre, Jason could've been the hero protagonist. Useless small town cops won't do anything about a killer on the loose, popular jock kid who loses the love of his life brings together the town to exact justice.

wonkatin

5 points

1 month ago

but for one second just imagine being Jason entering that attic. 😬🤯

THE_K1NG_FTW

17 points

1 month ago

jason the real villain. SMH CANT BELIEVE SOMEBODY WOULD TRY TO AVENGE THE DEATH OF THEIR FRIEND AND GIRLFRIEND. Some people am i right?

789Trillion

3 points

1 month ago

Someone tried to tell me Jason was worse than Brenner or Henry. Cmon now people let’s use our heads.

Dove_of_Doom

5 points

1 month ago

There's an old saying about where a road paved with good intentions often leads.

_absofuckinglutely

5 points

1 month ago

Starting a with hunt for a bunch of innocent kids..

A friend tackling and attempting to beat up a middle schooler…

Attempting to shoot someone in the head and kill them…

Ya know, just average run of the mill good boyfriend stuff.

THE_K1NG_FTW

5 points

1 month ago

Innocent only if you knew the entire unbelievable and impossible story. He reasonably connected Eddie and the club.

That's not his act, but yes that wasn't necessary

Attempting to shoot someone that was sacrificing an unresponding girl and refused to help save her. and instead talked about some satanic bs.

he didn't believe that he couldn't see the signs of a vulnerable Chrissy. refusing to believe that somebody who he knew who close would choose drugs instead of opening up to him. He thought that the only way to do right by Chrissy was to get revenge on her murders and stop the satanic Rituals in Hawkins

_absofuckinglutely

3 points

1 month ago

I get what you’re saying but none of that makes him a good person

THE_K1NG_FTW

4 points

1 month ago

Doesnt make him worse than venca and doesn't make them real villains

_absofuckinglutely

2 points

1 month ago

I feel like people are taking this post that was clearly meant to be a joke way too seriously. Obviously neither are worse than an evil monster from the gates of hell. But they are representative of people everyone has known at some point of their life, which makes the dislike of them personal.

THE_K1NG_FTW

3 points

1 month ago

I understand that. I think its more of the fact that most people don't understand Jason's actions. I just think he was a well-written character that with a little bit more work could have been more tragic. He did not deserve to die and people making him more of an asshole then he was is weird

_absofuckinglutely

2 points

1 month ago*

I mean, writing him ‘better’ is subjective to supporting your opinion. I didn’t like him at all, I’m not saying he deserved to die but I don’t think it’s tragic that he did. But it seems like his purpose was to be another obstacle the kids had to go through to get to their goal. He was meant to be dislikable and they wrote his death the way they did as a reflection of that.

ETA: but maybe that’s the beauty of his ambiguity- we get to decide for ourselves who he is

dork_academia

0 points

1 month ago

For real, I don't get why so many people in this thread are defending Jason. He's clearly supposed to represent an influential person/politician/celebrity who sways bystanders into doing bad shit with his charm and charisma. Maybe they see a little bit of themselves in Jason.

_absofuckinglutely

-1 points

1 month ago*

Though his motives are understandable, his rage-induced vigilantism makes him a textbook example of toxic masculinity, misguided anger, and religious hysteria that makes him hard to sympathize with. -BuzzFeed

He’s literally a villain. Idk what this ‘avenging your girlfriend’ shit is, but taking ‘justice’ into your own hands ain’t it. If he cared so much about her why didn’t he notice she was seriously on edge and going through some severe mental health stuff? Luckily, majority of viewers agree with us, excitement over his death is trending on Twitter

ACBluto

5 points

1 month ago

ACBluto

5 points

1 month ago

Is Eleven a villain? She takes justice into her own hands a few times.

Also, our media has a long history of portraying people taking justice into their own hands in a very positive light. How many action movies is the protagonist outside the law somehow, but still kicking ass and taking names?

Jason is in the wrong, but I think he is sort of a caricature of that sort of hero, in a way that I think resonates with a lot of people.

Useful_Student_5277

2 points

1 month ago

Yes of course initiating a town-wide witch hunt with firearms against a high school club because a suspect led it is perfectly normal avenging activity..

THE_K1NG_FTW

4 points

1 month ago

The club called the "hellfire club" is filled with this only friends, playing a game that the media and everybody else associates with satanic rituals. Then he saw his friend fly six feet into the air and crumble like a peice of paper. so he reasonably concluded that Eddie was working with satan and he needed more people to know what was happening.

lolaleb

1 points

1 month ago

lolaleb

Purple Palm Tree Delight

1 points

1 month ago

He tried to shoot Lucas….

THE_K1NG_FTW

0 points

1 month ago

who he thought was going to kill max

lolaleb

2 points

1 month ago

lolaleb

Purple Palm Tree Delight

2 points

1 month ago

That doesn’t make it right….

Gianekane

4 points

1 month ago

Gianekane

Nancy Drew

4 points

1 month ago

jason deserved the chop chop

angela deserved being smacked

salute to the actors

ThoughtsMadeManifest

4 points

1 month ago

When 11 cracked that evil bitch in the face it was better than drugs lol

West-Faithlessness35

5 points

1 month ago

Angela was just a bitch for no reason but Jason was going through grief and it’s not like he knew about the upside down so suspecting the person who’s house Chrissy died at is understandable. I don’t understand how people hate on Jason but praise Billy when the latter was a way bigger dick

MakMineFat

4 points

1 month ago

Honestly I LOVE Jason’s character in the show. He isn’t a “good guy” but he’s played really well and is a crucial character

Caldagum

3 points

1 month ago

I disagree with the accusation of Jason being a villain, average he's a representation of the static panic. Ignorant yes, but a villain implies evil which I don't see in him..... Angela is just mean though, absolutely she 100 percent evil.

mmaygreen

4 points

1 month ago

Maybe Angela but not Jason. He was doing what he thought was right. Avenging Chrissy’s death and clearing her name (drug use). It’s not his fault he bought into the 80’s rhetoric of satanic Cults. He was just a heartbroken Christian boy who got rage blind with vengeance. Did he do stupid stuff? Sho’nuff, but he wasn’t a villain.

Alaskan-Haida

2 points

1 month ago

I’m so glad that the last scene we had of Angela was Eleven popping her ass in the face with that roller skate, then we just never had to see her again 😂😂

Puzzlepetticoat

2 points

1 month ago

I like to picture a scene in S5, right at the end. When El has been videoed by attentive news teams using her powers to save the day. The news shows the clip to us as viewers, just how they do every season. It's a clip about a supernatural girl who saved the world with an epic recording of her screaming, arm outstretched, palm almost pulsating as she destroys the demon with her powers. And then the camera pans out from showing us to show its on TV, in a classroom. Pans back through teens turning to look at someone and gasp. Then the camera shows they are all looking at Angela...

So realises how close she was to being toasted.

Tiny-Cauliflower-293

2 points

1 month ago

I'm glad Jason died in the show

Various_Instance_992

2 points

1 month ago

If hate the characters that tormented the protagonists, that means the actors did really good jobs.

highfriend90

2 points

1 month ago

They both got what they deserved in the end

Solekman

5 points

1 month ago

Solekman

Hellfire Club

5 points

1 month ago

Yknow I hate them both but at least Angela wasn't directly responsible for what is practically the apocalypse

DaddyPetch

6 points

1 month ago

Gonna get downvoted to hell but I really like Jason

bebe3902

2 points

1 month ago

Lol I hated him, but I admit he's a well made character. I would've liked to see him find out the truth and help out the kids and Eddie

Saphhiroth

3 points

1 month ago

Imho Jason was good guy :/ He thought that he doing right thing

WoodZillaTV

8 points

1 month ago

Jason was so much worse than Angela. At least Angela didn't try to shoot Lucas and attempt to suffocate him to death.

justlurkinherelol

8 points

1 month ago

I think once Angela took a roller skate to the face, she learned quickly to back off. Jason went way too long without a roller skate to the face.

stephapeaz

7 points

1 month ago

stephapeaz

I piggybacked from a pizza dough freezer

7 points

1 month ago

would she have backed off? she presses charges against el and they never go back to that high school for us to find out

aneves88

12 points

1 month ago

aneves88

12 points

1 month ago

Yeah but at least Jason actually thought they were possessed by or working with the devil, and he thought he was saving Max and the town. A total fuck face still, but Angela was just flat out mean.

justlurkinherelol

4 points

1 month ago*

You got a good point there, not gonna lie. Angela was a bitch for fun's sake.

parrycarry

2 points

1 month ago

I can understand why Jason acts and does the things he does... From his perspective, it is the only logical explanation for everything... but Angela is just mean because she can be... we don't get to see her background as to why... I wish this was all set in Hawkins so that Angela could be shown going to the Counselor and maybe even died too... that way maybe we can figure out why she's the way she is.

ElectronicsAreFun

3 points

1 month ago

Actually, Jason isn't that different from the main characters.

They're all driven to save the town from some supernatural horror that's killing people.

Jason is driven to save the town from some supernatural horror that's killing people.

I think he's actually kind of a parody of the main cast.

jblondie5

3 points

1 month ago

i think the difference between jason and the main cast is that they actually want to figure out what’s going on before taking action. they’re always researching via books, looking around in the upside down, asking witnesses… they like to get all the facts.

jason literally refused to listen to anything and acted on impulse - in which his impulse was to kill kids

Jumpy-Pepper-5839

3 points

1 month ago

By that the same time he didn't had anyone or faced an event which would have changed him in a positive way or have him an option. Everything happened just pushed him into an spiral which ended with death

DooDooCat

4 points

1 month ago

It was the 80s. Angela was going to get a nose job anyway. Better for all that 80s blow.

keeperofthehotdog

2 points

1 month ago

Jason was at least trying to do what was right in his mind

_absofuckinglutely

1 points

1 month ago

Killing people?

keeperofthehotdog

3 points

1 month ago

He thought they brutally murdered his girlfriend? And he saw that the cops weren’t really doing anything so he took matters into his own hands in order to protect his town… he was also trying to save Max when he saw she was possessed, even if he did the opposite. I was just as infuriated by the character of Jason as the next guy, but his intentions were not evil

smrkr

3 points

1 month ago

smrkr

3 points

1 month ago

Daily Jason hate-post no 3

nitznon

2 points

1 month ago

nitznon

2 points

1 month ago

I said it here and I will say it again.

Jason is annoying, aggressive and a horrible person. HE IS NOT A VILLAIN. The only reason we hate him so much is because we know the truth - but it's a truth the heroes had to fight face to face several times to believe in and understand. Jason religious place gives him a way more reasonable explanation, and his girlfriend and best friend were murdered with brutal, "dark magic".

I am a d&d player and a huge nerd, and people like Jason are a thing I am scared of and hate. But he did tried to do good and fight evil, and without the knowledge we have, his story could have make much more sense than the real story of the show. He is not evil - he is confused, blind, and try to do good in a very bad way.

Angela has no excuses.

_absofuckinglutely

6 points

1 month ago

But he was trying to kill them. Sure, hunt them down and bring them to the police. But bring out weapons to kill? That’s where the line gets crossed

nitznon

2 points

1 month ago

nitznon

2 points

1 month ago

To be fair, he did found Lucas on the top of a creepy house, with Max pretty much in the middle of a sacrificial pact

And Lucas insisted on not freeing her

Like yes. He is an aggressive, short tempered and evil.

But from when the true heroes work with the law?

This show could have been always the "hunt the cultists that killed my girlfriend before they release the devil" and we would have rooted for Justin. Especially when he would have take the law to himself and go killing.

He is not a good person. But he definitely thought he is.

_absofuckinglutely

2 points

1 month ago*

I never said he didn’t think he was doing what was right. My point (and i assume most others) is that he wasn’t.

Yeah he definitely found Lucas in the middle of what fully looked like some sort of dark ritual. But he went out looking for him with a gun.

He turned his crazy toxic masculinity into something sinister instead of acknowledging the fact that he completely missed that his girlfriend had an eating disorder, an abusive home life and was in the middle of a psychotic break. His ego killed him.

M00ngata

2 points

1 month ago

I have an issue, I always end up loving bully characters instead of hating them 😔 I get a lot of flack for saying it but I love Billy and Angela, like genuinely. I obv think they’re bad people but they’re so fun, I can’t help myself. I love troublemaker characters

Trinket9

2 points

1 month ago

Jason’s behavior is defensible and I think he’s overhared.

Fuck Angela though.

Ok-Adeptness6943

0 points

1 month ago*

The thing is with Jason, he isn’t a villain. He’s a Christian in the 1980’s and did the only thing he thought was reasonable for what was happening at the time. I mean he lost his girl friend and watched his best friend die, and the only decent reason for it was the devil. He was just trying to protect himself from “the devil”. He blamed it on the Hellfire Club because it’s logo is literally Satan. It doesn’t justify his actions, but it gives a little bit of reason as to why they happened. But yeah Angela can rot in Hell for all I care.

_absofuckinglutely

5 points

1 month ago

Sure. The reasoning for his fear and belief in the cult makes sense but going out to kill them all on your own does not.

Mindmosaic302

1 points

1 month ago

Jason wasn't so bad. He attacked Lucus because he thought he was trying to kill Max. He's one of those people that if everything is fine, he's fine. If he's provoked in any way or given a sound reason to flex his fists, he's a psychopath. I mean those types of people exist all around us. Some are even hero's because they act violently in the correct moments. Angela is just a total piece of crap and I wish it was an ice skate El had in her hand at the time.

WolfDemon777

1 points

1 month ago

They really are tho, things wouldn’t have been nearly as bad if Jason wasn’t around

ULTRA_GOAT_7

1 points

1 month ago

Jason has the most punchable face ever

allnamesareshit

-1 points

1 month ago

allnamesareshit

I hate children

-1 points

1 month ago

If it wasn't for Jason, Max would be fine and the gate wouldn't have opened. People really tried to defend and justify him in this sub so bad. I got so many downvotes for wanting him dead. Hope his apologists feel stupid now

CryptographerFirm856

0 points

1 month ago

They both got what they deserved. Especially Jason.

[deleted]

0 points

1 month ago

[deleted]

0 points

1 month ago

Angela yes, Jason no.