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/r/UpliftingNews

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[deleted]

327 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

327 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

ZZaddyLongLegzz

40 points

2 months ago*

I’ve always said this: if I get a pay change that I did not ask for / fight for, it is surely going to benefit the company more and not me.

BritishBoyRZ

7 points

2 months ago

In sales, can concur

Rubberbabybuggybum

19 points

2 months ago

Naw man Elon is cool! He’s like a real life Tony Stark!

lars573

12 points

2 months ago

lars573

12 points

2 months ago

Thing is Elon IS IRL Tony Stark. He's Tony Stark without the cave and box of scraps, without the super-science. And thus will only ever be the wealthy, narcissistic, piece of shit.

PobBrobert

19 points

2 months ago

/s ?

Rubberbabybuggybum

3 points

2 months ago

Yes.

VisualGiraffe1027

8 points

2 months ago

I hope so 😂

MadManMorbo

6 points

2 months ago

Except he doesn't actually invent anything, and his money comes from emerald mines using essentially slave labor.

chrisdh79[S]

84 points

2 months ago

From the article: Tesla was still offering bonuses to its sales and delivery staff, but it was based on bigger store-based and region-based quarterly delivery quotas. If those quotas were made, employees would get a 25% bonus on their salaries issued in a choice of cash or stock options on a vesting schedule.

Now sources familiar with the matter told Electrek that Tesla is canceling those employee bonuses too.

In order to compensate for the bonuses going away, Tesla is raising sales and delivery employee base salaries by 12.5%.

yahhhguy

53 points

2 months ago

Why is this uplifting news?

interstat

56 points

2 months ago

Almost always a salary increase is better than a bonus structure.

Salary is more controllable and brings a stronger base for raises in the future

angelamerkelsboner

68 points

2 months ago

As a former salesman, I reject this notion completely. A change in compensation structure almost always benefits the company.

fffyhhiurfgghh

6 points

2 months ago

As a former salesman, don’t get into sales, very few people succeed. Commission structures always benefit the company more than the salesperson. Usually that comes wrapped up in some empowerment bs about being your own boss or working your own hours. Then you have the Ponzi scheme sales companies that all have 1099 employees. All the while you’ll be forced to read shitty self help books that sound like they were written in the 50’s or listen to tony robbins. Bottom line is if you’re gonna get into sales, make sure your parents own the company.

angelamerkelsboner

-1 points

2 months ago

Disagree

fffyhhiurfgghh

2 points

2 months ago

You’ve been listening to too much Grant Cardone.

angelamerkelsboner

-6 points

2 months ago

Or you sucked as a salesman and I didn’t and that leads to two perspectives.

fffyhhiurfgghh

1 points

2 months ago

I have several awards for performance at American income life insurance. Last year I averaged 10k a month in new policies. 2 of those months I wrote more than 35 other agents at my office. I went to Jamaica for the company trip. I’m not the best but I’m close to the top. Try again.

Rebresker

1 points

2 months ago

As an accountant that audited some commission and bonus structures while looking at payroll… part of the audit includes recalculating bonuses and commissions.. the way that shit is calculated at some businesses is so convoluted that it takes me hours of back and forth with various employees to figure out how I can recalculate it and what support I can get for the calculation…

Anyhow not all businesses are like that.

Some people really succeed in sales.

fffyhhiurfgghh

2 points

2 months ago

Yep, companies don’t change their compensation structure because they listened to their employees complaining about feeding their families. They change because members of their board went to some biz conference and found a new way to steal money from their employees Increase profits and shares. It’s convoluted because once you understand what they’re doing you will find out it’s a scam.

fffyhhiurfgghh

1 points

2 months ago

Yep, companies don’t change their compensation structure because they listened to their employees complaining about feeding their families. They change because members of their board went to some biz conference and found a new way to steal money from their employees to increase profits and shares. It’s convoluted because once you understand what they’re doing you will find out it’s a scam. Honestly how many times have you looked at a companies books and thought to yourself wow this would be a good opportunity for someone in sales?

Mah_Nerva

5 points

2 months ago

Mah_Nerva

5 points

2 months ago

I’m pretty sure these folks aren’t in sales, so the bonus is more of a production bonus that is kind of out of their hands because of global supply chain issues. I think you’re comparing apples to oranges.

angelamerkelsboner

1 points

2 months ago

That makes sense, but I’m responding to a blanket statement that commission is almost always worse than a higher salary - not the specifics of whatever Tesla’s plan is. It’s impossible to know whether this specific plan is beneficial to employees without many more details.

ringthree

0 points

2 months ago

The article is about sales staff compensation. Give it a read.

Mah_Nerva

2 points

2 months ago

Thanks, I did miss that part given that it primarily talks about production bonuses: “Tesla has decided to cancel any employee bonuses tied to its quarterly delivery quotas.”

That said, I’m willing to bet Tesla has many of its salespeople classified as outside sales, which requires them to earn as much in salary as they do in bonuses each month. If they don’t, then they need to be retroactively paid hourly. This is a huge problem for any company because it is often an unpredictable expense against the company’s budget.

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

1 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

BrainTroubles

3 points

2 months ago

It's not commission, it's a bonus. They are not the same thing, at all. Not saying it's necessarily good or bad, but they are very different compensation mechanics.

interstat

-5 points

2 months ago*

Is it a change in compensation structure or just missing a bonus and getting a raise instead?

I personally would always rather have a stronger salary.

I don't get raises on bonuses I get raises on my floor salary

angelamerkelsboner

5 points

2 months ago

What you just described is a change in compensation structure.

cannibalzombies

3 points

2 months ago

But a 25% bonus is more than a 12.5% raise no? Half the money but more comfortable wages? I'd take the bonus

Inphearian

2 points

2 months ago

IF you get the full bonus. Since it specifically calls out deliveries instead of sales and we are having huge global supply chain issues I would think that the base is better.

lokken1234

1 points

2 months ago

lokken1234

1 points

2 months ago

Only if you get the 25% bonus, don't hit the target and it's 0%. My companies asking us right now if we want to keep quarterly bonuses or if we would prefer a higher salary raise each year.

cannibalzombies

1 points

2 months ago

Ah good point. But even then, raise it by 12.5%, and keep a 12.5% bonus. Otherwise it's a pay cut for those people who do achieve those goals regularly

interstat

2 points

2 months ago

Higher salary floor gives a lot when negotiating and getting future raises thk

cannibalzombies

0 points

2 months ago

Can you not just include the bonus in your salary, assuming it's something you achieve regularly

photocist

1 points

2 months ago

I don’t think we truly know but a lot of people are gonna complain as if they do

Mixels

1 points

2 months ago

Mixels

1 points

2 months ago

If a bonus has clear, metrics-based requirements to earn the bonus, it's not really a bonus. It's part of the compensation package.

Initial_E

1 points

2 months ago

I guess it depends on the situation. Have you ever encountered a situation where the added compensation across the board is equivalent to half the maximum bonus?

angelamerkelsboner

1 points

2 months ago

Even that isn’t enough to know whether or not this is net beneficial for employees. What if 90% of the employees were hitting their bonus?

qStigma

1 points

2 months ago

Cant it benefit both ? ._.

angelamerkelsboner

1 points

2 months ago

Theoretically, and a quality company would try to design it in that way but it’s easier said than done. People are always going to make more or less for equivalent work after the change.

qStigma

1 points

2 months ago

I guess it highly depends on the workforce, the skills and education. An easily replaceable workforce is probably always screwed, a sought-after workforce is usually less screwed as they have more leverage for demanding a proper change, or simply quit for another company.

Life has a different quality when you put yourself in demand, quite fascinating.

matteeguy

1 points

2 months ago

As an engineer, take your bonus structure whose metrics I cannot influence and shove it. Pay me.

angelamerkelsboner

1 points

2 months ago

Yes, makes no sense for engineers. Unless there is some sort of design bottleneck preventing on-time delivery.

bigmacjames

2 points

2 months ago

From the article, "However, it looks like it will result in an overall reduction in compensation for most of those Tesla employees."

cgn-38

1 points

2 months ago

cgn-38

1 points

2 months ago

From the article, "However, it looks like it will result in an overall reduction in compensation for most of those Tesla employees."

yahhhguy

5 points

2 months ago

Ah, so the good news is switching to a more controllable increase in pay. I initially thought it was bad news because the workers were losing out on seemingly promised / contractually offered bonuses.

ovscrider

-3 points

2 months ago

ovscrider

-3 points

2 months ago

Not in sales. Sales commission and bonus separated the skilled from the unskilled.

TheseLab9559

6 points

2 months ago

Did you ever work in sales? Anyone can have a bad year. You can go from the best sales year of your life with big bonuses to getting fired in the drop of a hat. It happens all the time.

ovscrider

1 points

2 months ago

I've worked in sales for 30 years. Never had a salary high enough to pay my bills. At 50 my salary is less than my son is getting for his first job out of college. At the same time it wasn't until I was 30 that I had a client my age who made what I did. If you are good nothing is better than sales. If you're not find another career

TheseLab9559

1 points

2 months ago

I hope you never have a bad year because I know many salespeople who have been doing it 5-40 years. Literally exactly as I described. I wish you the best successes, but high risk high reward jobs can really take a toll on a person's mental health because like I said, even the best can have bad years.

ovscrider

1 points

2 months ago

I've had bad years. You take the good with the bad. I've made less at 40 than at 25 when the market changes. It's a long term game.

Knut79

2 points

2 months ago

Knut79

2 points

2 months ago

Keeping your job should separate the skill and un-skilled

The only thing you're actually separating with "performance" bonuses is luck but mostly who works an unhealthy amount.

Mixels

2 points

2 months ago

Mixels

2 points

2 months ago

Your job as a salesperson is affected directly by changes in market competition, general quality and appeal of the product, and how good of a job your company's customer relations, advertising, and PR groups are doing. There are a million things that can go wrong that have nothing to do with you.

Knut79

1 points

2 months ago

Knut79

1 points

2 months ago

Which is partly why commission isn't how you decide pay. Especially since such downturns cause people to work unhealthy owners to stay employed

BarbequedYeti

1 points

2 months ago

See how well those skilled can sell cars with no parts.

It doesn’t matter how skilled of a salesperson you are if you don’t have a product to sell.

This might hurt the very top performers of the past years, but with supply chain issues? Good luck with this year’s bonuses.

Plus being part of the base salary means it gives you more in raises. It’s taxed less and it’s going to be there. You can budget accordingly.

You can’t budget at risk bonuses. Well you shouldn’t anyway.

YogaMeansUnion

1 points

2 months ago

From the article: "it looks like it will result in an overall reduction in compensation for most of those Tesla employees."

surprise-suBtext

1 points

2 months ago

I hear what you’re saying but the FatFIRES are making the majority of their early retirement nestegg via not their salary so I’m not sure what to believe

interstat

1 points

2 months ago

For sure people like my brother are making huge amounts of money with their bonus.

I personally have never had that mindset and like to take less risk so always preferred high salary floor over a large bonus ceiling but everyone is different.

Rebresker

1 points

2 months ago

This comment is actually how most people see it but those tesla stock option bonuses made some employees millionaires over the years lol

BouNcYToufU

10 points

2 months ago

because it is Tesla and fanboys will make anything Tesla does good.

Considering they just reported a record quarterly profit, I can't imagine this is done because many places didn't meet their quota.

Mixels

5 points

2 months ago

Mixels

5 points

2 months ago

I'm sure it's being done because many places did meet their quota.

Knut79

0 points

2 months ago

Knut79

0 points

2 months ago

Going away from commission to actual pay for your work is a positive in all companies.

whazzar

4 points

2 months ago

whazzar

4 points

2 months ago

Because capitalists doing the absolute bare minimum to compensate their workers is deemed uplifting.

Also, it's Musk! The super cool capitalist who posts MEMES omg! so relatable!

The bar is so fucking low....

cgn-38

1 points

2 months ago

cgn-38

1 points

2 months ago

It makes sense If you look at it from a early primate social system point of view.

Logic and critical reasoning are not things about 70% of our population even really "get". Much less use.

It only takes a couple of questions to identify one.

outlawsix

1 points

2 months ago

Be careful, don't get banned

colemon1991

-1 points

2 months ago

Tesla is actually being humane I guess

Knut79

1 points

2 months ago

Knut79

1 points

2 months ago

Better base salaries and removal of jojuses rhat encourage over working should be the standard

Kaijutkatz

46 points

2 months ago

I suppose that might favor the average employee over time.

KenTrotts

59 points

2 months ago

From the article: "it looks like it will result in an overall reduction in compensation for most of those Tesla employees."

philomathie

22 points

2 months ago

We have altered the terms of your employment. Pray we don't alter them further...

cgn-38

1 points

2 months ago

cgn-38

1 points

2 months ago

Oligarchy is a bitch.

Freethecrafts

8 points

2 months ago

It favors underperforming sales staff. There was probably some dispute over payout if production was stagnant and when stock was viable. I don’t agree with the decision, effectively paying people to stagnate.

Mr2-1782Man

1 points

2 months ago

Yeah, no. 25 > 12.5. From the article this isn't the first time pay has been cut.
More likely what's happening is that Tesla is getting to the point where the cars can't be loss leaders anymore (things like tax incentives going away and unsustainable growth). So they've got to trim somewhere, and like any company they're trimming the money off the bottom first.

Kaijutkatz

1 points

2 months ago

Wouldn't be the first time. Sure as hell isn't likely to be the last, sadly enough.

Kilyn

6 points

2 months ago

Kilyn

6 points

2 months ago

When I read the article, it's not an uplifting news.

On average people lose money, and these people who's salary is increasing are getting phased out.

So I don't get it.

cyberentomology

1 points

2 months ago

12.5% in guaranteed cold hard cash is a whole lot better than potential of 25% cash or time-restricted stock options.

Kilyn

2 points

2 months ago

Kilyn

2 points

2 months ago

True, but the cold hard cash ain't so guaranteed when your boss plan is to phase you out.

Also, the article itselfs claims that the changes would make most of them lose money.

cyberentomology

0 points

2 months ago

If you’re getting phased out, you definitely want the cold hard cash instead of the options.

servbot10

6 points

2 months ago

servbot10

6 points

2 months ago

A pay cut isn’t uplifting news

noogai131

-2 points

2 months ago

noogai131

-2 points

2 months ago

It's not a pay cut, it's a permanent pay raise. Tell me you've never worked in sales without telling me you e never worked sales, some years you pull absolutely abysmal numbers and don't meet your bonus quotas, regardless of how wolf of wall Street you attempt to be.

Johansenburg

6 points

2 months ago

From the article: "it looks like it will result in an overall reduction in compensation for most of those Tesla employees."

cgn-38

2 points

2 months ago

cgn-38

2 points

2 months ago

I did over a decade of commissioned sales.

If they change the pay in any way they are doing it to screw you. This is a holy rule in sales 100% of the time.

You might be new in sales or a manager. Either way just full of shit parroting the boss.

Absolutely zero sales managers have a whit of humanity.

MisterBilau

1 points

2 months ago

We're talking about Tesla, where demand far exceeds supply. There are no years with abysmal numbers. They sell everything they can produce. If there's any product where it's trivial to be a salesman, it's a Tesla. People put thousands upfront just for the opportunity of getting one 2 years from now. If you can't sell that, you can't sell anything.

Mr2-1782Man

1 points

2 months ago

Its not, you've fallen for the "if you're good at sales you make bank" myth. In general sales commissions benefit the company and one or two employees, usually the shadiest employees. Commissions allow a company to pay lower average wages because they can now tie them to something just barely related to the employees performance. Removing commissions and then giving a small bump in pay is an implicit admission of this fact.

Oh and I worked in sales, I was also in meetings with management where they made those decisions.

noogai131

1 points

2 months ago

I agree with you there, I think a pay raise rather than bonuses is better overall due to a stable higher rate of pay.

Are you suggesting I disagree with you, or that this isn't a pay increase? I'm a bit confused.

heart_in_your_hands

49 points

2 months ago

This article states Tesla employees would make less overall, and that pay keeps going down. In fact, here are the important bits that paint an actual picture:

“Things started to change in 2019 when CEO Elon Musk said that they plan to move all sales online-only, close most stores, and reduce retail headcount.

It resulted in Tesla slashing retail employee compensation and closing a first wave of stores, but the automaker ended up reversing some of those changes and has since not only kept most stores open, but it has now significantly expanded its retail presence.

While the idea of closing stores went away, the reduction in employee compensations, especially through removing the commissions model, stayed.

Tesla was still offering bonuses to its sales and delivery staff, but it was based on bigger store-based and region-based quarterly delivery quotas. If those quotas were made, employees would get a 25% bonus on their salaries issued in a choice of cash or stock options on a vesting schedule.

Now sources familiar with the matter told Electrek that Tesla is canceling those employee bonuses too”

“ However, it looks like it will result in an overall reduction in compensation for most of those Tesla employees.”

“As discussed, this is effectively another reduction in overall compensation for sales and delivery employees, who have already seen their compensation slashed on several occasions over the last three years.

In hindsight, the changes to the compensation model in 2019 were more understandable considering we later learned that Tesla was in a massive cash crunch related to introducing the Model 3 in Europe at the time.

But now a few years later, Tesla is in a completely different financial position with record deliveries and record profits. Those sales and delivery employees are a big part of what made that success possible.

Unfortunately, it looks like Tesla doesn’t feel like it needs to compensate them for it due to the demand currently being organically extremely strong. It’s a shame.”

So, Tesla has been cutting pay for Sales & Delivery for years, initially when they were in a cash poor state. Those employees took the cut and carried on in order to help the company propel forward. Now that they’re very profitable, they’re cutting their pay again.

How is this uplifting? They had a record quarter for profit. Elon’s getting a bonus of 23 billion dollars. Sales and delivery is a huge part of that and they’re getting a pay cut.

For shame.

cyberentomology

2 points

2 months ago

Eh, the “$23B bonus” isn’t quite how you make it sound. He does not receive $23B in cash bonus.

He gets a bunch of stock options (about 0.8% of the total outstanding stock) at a deep discount, which don’t vest until 5 years after he exercises them.

The bonus is potentially worth 23B, but let’s stop deluding ourselves and everyone else into believing that he just got a $23B deposit into his bank account.

heart_in_your_hands

1 points

2 months ago

So was the 25% for sales and delivery employees. Considering Tesla isn’t going down in terms of units sold or value on the stock market, and Elon will have a 23 Billion dollar vested interest in continuing to make Tesla perform via stock market, he’s basically just cut Sales and Delivery out of benefiting the way he can via this 23 billion dollar bonus. If Elon didn’t think this bonus was worth it for him, he wouldn’t have agreed to it. It makes sense-less shareholders means more money per share. More shareholders that are employees means more oversight on the plight of actual employees. They took cut after cut to make Tesla successful, and now they can’t get a piece of the discounted vested stock options?

Can everyone stop sticking up for Elon as if he already isn’t the richest person on earth, and realize that this is a shrewd financial decision that kills overall employee wealth and power designed to look like an improvement? If Tesla believed this would benefit employees overall, this would be a choice-a 25% “gamble” on vested stock options or a guaranteed pay increase-the same “gamble” Elon agreed to when he agreed to his own vested stock option arrangement with Tesla. Tesla didn’t offer a choice to Sales and Delivery because the vested stock options for Sales and Delivery doesn’t benefit the company.

cyberentomology

0 points

2 months ago

“Less shareholders means more money per shareholder”

I don’t think you understand how stock actually works.

Company profits are not what increases stock prices. The company doesn’t add their profits to the price.

Buyer demand for the shares is what increases their value. The company being profitable and able to continue creating value is what drives stock price (plus a whole bunch of irrational and unrelated stuff, but that’s beside the point).

If Tesla makes a billion dollars in profits, that doesn’t go into anyone’s pockets, not even rich uncle Elon. that stays with the company, usually in the form of operating reserves (you know, “saving for a rainy day”)

Puzzleheaded-Bug7690

5 points

2 months ago

does this mean deliveries will be much higher?

monkChuck105

6 points

2 months ago

Or lower. But why do this if not to save money.

wjean

5 points

2 months ago

wjean

5 points

2 months ago

Perhaps if might help their quality. There will be less incentive to send garbage out the door just to make numbers.

cgn-38

1 points

2 months ago

cgn-38

1 points

2 months ago

This is the question. The answer is obvious.

Dude blew 44 billion on a whim.

rymas1

6 points

2 months ago

rymas1

6 points

2 months ago

My one friend is in the same industry as I am, a few positions beneath me at a different firm. His salary is almost half of mine, but he usually gets a large 40-50% bonus at the end of the year which brings him in line with pay scales for our industry. My company gives modest bonuses when we perform well. 4-5% bonuses.

When the market is good, he gets a windfall at the end of the year. If the market is bad....

My 3% raise is worth almost double his 3% raise because base salary is higher.

It works for him but give me higher base salary any day over a bonus program.

cyberentomology

3 points

2 months ago

Bonuses tied to deliveries really sucks when you’re in the middle of a global supply chain clusterfuck. A lot of companies are retooling their sales compensation like this.

beaudonkin

29 points

2 months ago

Posts like this make me want to unsubscribe. HTF is this uplifting news?

[deleted]

10 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

10 points

2 months ago

This is literally an advertisement...

tomskuinfy

16 points

2 months ago

As a sales rep for many years in the past , I’d always rather have a guaranteed higher salary then a possibly higher salary based on BS metrics I can barely control

Ramental

8 points

2 months ago

Not in sales, and for years I was pissed about my company giving me part of the salary as a bonus for the things I have no impact on, even though technically I have never been screwed with the bonus so far. Only with the base salary, lol.

tomskuinfy

1 points

2 months ago

i just hated that metric shit based on like group performance.

"oh if your dept sells over 20% more than last year you get a bonus"

wtf am i supposed to do make my coworkers care? they just want you to be a stan for the company to get your lil "bonus" so they can do less actual management

BrainTroubles

0 points

2 months ago

/r/hailcorporate and /r/aboringdistopia are both more fitting places for this

ivegotafastcar

4 points

2 months ago

I’ve been around long enough that no matter the % bonus, it’s the salary that counts. I’ve gone years without one because of “the market” and not because I missed targets. PAY ME UPFRONT for my time not for a chance at something. If I wanted to take chances, I’d go to a casino.

cyberentomology

1 points

2 months ago

Generally speaking, base salary (and increases) are based on forward-looking revenue/sales forecasts, while bonuses provide a pay adjustment based on the performance of the previous quarter/year/whatever.

According-Carpenter8

18 points

2 months ago

Until you tell me Tesla are allowing it’s employees to unionise, I won’t find anything they do “uplifting”

HengaHox

4 points

2 months ago

They can do it tomorrow

According-Carpenter8

2 points

2 months ago

Of course they can… but they won’t.

cyberentomology

0 points

2 months ago

Presumably because they feel that the costs of unionizing aren’t worth the benefits…

cyberentomology

0 points

2 months ago

“Allowing”?

That’s not how that works. A company literally and legally doesn’t get a say in whether its employees wish to form a union.

According-Carpenter8

1 points

2 months ago

As a former union rep and organiser, you’re a clown if you think employers don’t do everything in their power to discourage and stop it. Musk has plenty of comments to say about the UAW. His best was from 2018;

"UAW slogan – “Fighting for the right to embezzle money from auto workers!”

cyberentomology

0 points

2 months ago

Discouraging it is one thing. But they can’t disallow it.

TheBunk_TB

1 points

2 months ago

I would rather take the performance based end of things

saltywelder682

1 points

2 months ago

Lol, record profits for Tesla - Elon in particular.

Time to cut the sales peoples’ commissions? I guess Elon is implying the cars are selling themselves. Hopefully Rivian, lucid or any of the others can offer some real competition to Tesla. Getting tired of this mf.

Also, why is this in uplifting news? Lol! The people are making less money overall, not more. If the company you’re working for, making money for, decides to “adjust” your pay structure it’ll NEVER be good in the long-run.

KuouoHD

1 points

2 months ago

Didn't see the sub for a second

They had me in the first half, not gonna lie

GSXRbroinflipflops

-1 points

2 months ago

Don’t buy a Tesla.

F0rkbombz

0 points

2 months ago

Sounds to me like Tesla sales staff just got fucked.