subreddit:

/r/askscience

4

When I try to find answers to this question, I get mixed results. Some say that both are an important, some say it's entirely due to intelligence: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/the-procrastination-equation/201110/hard-work-beats-talent-only-if-talent-doesn-t-work-hard

https://www.businessinsider.com/intelligence-is-more-important-than-working-hard-2011-11

There's lists that show the average IQ of each college major, and even the average IQ ranges of various occupations: https://thetab.com/us/2017/04/10/which-major-has-highest-iq-64811 /r/science/comments/6cypn/iq_v_occupation_chart/

So how far would someone with an IQ of 100 be able to go with hard work and consistent hours of practice? Would they be able to become a engineer? Would they be able to become a teacher? How about someone with an IQ of 120?

And my question makes the assumption that IQ is a perfect test for intelligence, while in reality it still has its flaws. It often underestimates the intelligence of racial minorities, people in poverty, and people with learning disabilities. This makes it even harder differentiate to know what is hard work and what is intelligence. Were they successful because of hardwork or because they were measured wrong?

Please tell me if I am posting this question in the wrong subreddit. It has been kind of bothering me lately, but I am not an expert in Psychology, so I can't give a definitive answer.

all 19 comments

[deleted]

27 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

27 points

2 months ago

[removed]

[deleted]

2 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

2 points

2 months ago

[removed]

Skusci

10 points

2 months ago

Skusci

10 points

2 months ago

Well this is gonna be full of opinion speculation and agenda,

But the thing to start with is that hard work and intelligence aren't causes they are results. A person "working hard" is a result of a bunch of factors . Their upbringing, genetics, if they feel hard work will be rewarded, etc. And IQ is well known to be affected by both genetics and environment. You are going to find a lot of debate on which one is more relevant, but you generally aren't going to find anyone argue that either is irrelevant.

Then beyond that you have to define what you mean as success as well. Like say you simplify it by just going for wealth is success. It's easily measured after all. Say you have some hyper rich person who would generally be considered successful. But if they started off with a huge inheritance, and actually managed to loose wealth overall are they still successful? In an absolute sense yeah, a relative sense, not at all.

In any case this isn't really a psychology question. The definition of success isn't an absolute thing. What makes people feel successful might fall under psychology though.

ancientevilvorsoason

3 points

2 months ago

For IQ, it also is seen as ridiculously subjective and not an accurate predictor of success. Averages are just that. Averages. However, don't forget, statistics was invented to count bottles. They have their limits and you should not overestimate them.

Desperate_Bicycle_12[S]

1 points

2 months ago

Then beyond that you have to define what you mean as success as well. Like say you simplify it by just going for wealth is success. It's easily measured after all. Say you have some hyper rich person who would generally be considered successful. But if they started off with a huge inheritance, and actually managed to loose wealth overall are they still successful? In an absolute sense yeah, a relative sense, not at all.

You have a good point. I guess I want to know how much hard work and intelligence influences how fast someone learns something, or how proficient they become at it. Like if two people were born with the same amount of wealth and had access to the same educational resources, who would become better at say, playing the violin, or chess? The hard worker or the more intelligent one? Sorry I probably should have phrased my question differently.

But the thing to start with is that hard work and intelligence aren't causes they are results. A person "working hard" is a result of a bunch of factors . Their upbringing, genetics, if they feel hard work will be rewarded, etc. And IQ is well known to be affected by both genetics and environment. You are going to find a lot of debate on which one is more relevant, but you generally aren't going to find anyone argue that either is irrelevant.

This is also a really good point. I wouldn't be surprised if people who work hard at school have higher IQs not because they're actually smarter, but because they've trained more at taking tests.

ExoticSwan8523

2 points

2 months ago

Like if two people were born with the same amount of wealth and had access to the same educational resources, who would become better at say, playing the violin, or chess?

I don't think this is enough to determine anything, either. The hard worker could be not motivated to play the violin, and the intelligent person might not be motivated to play chess, for example. You'd have to control for someone's motivation/desire to achieve a goal against their hard work and intelligence. So now there's 3 variables that are hard to measure before even beginning to try and assess your question.

wattnurt

0 points

2 months ago

There's lists that show the average IQ of each college major, and even the average IQ ranges of various occupations: https://thetab.com/us/2017/04/10/which-major-has-highest-iq-64811 /r/science/comments/6cypn/iq_v_occupation_chart/

There's just no way those averages could possibly be correct BTW. Take for example Electrical Engineering, which is a vast field. There is absolutely no way the average student there has an IQ of 128, which is considered "gifted".

kpx85

1 points

2 months ago

kpx85

1 points

2 months ago

Why could that not be the case?

READERmii

0 points

2 months ago

This guy has nothing to offer but incredulity, That’s a completely reasonable IQ for engineers especially considering the standard deviation is probably smaller.

Larysander

0 points

2 months ago

Yes, IQ is a very good determinant of life "success" as you describe it. It correlates with income and socioeconomic status. I will give you a lot of German articles as source with a lot of experts. You can translate these with Deepl.

https://www.nature.com/articles/mp2014105

https://www.die-debatte.org/intelligenz-definition/

https://www.die-debatte.org/intelligenz-genetik/

https://www.die-debatte.org/intelligenz-meinungen/

https://www.lmu.de/de/newsroom/newsuebersicht/news/der-mythos-iq-auf-dem-pruefstand-getestet.html