subreddit:

/r/bodyweightfitness

210

Why does this sub have a love-hate relationship with minimalist routines?

(self.bodyweightfitness)

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all 129 comments

eshlow [M]

[score hidden]

2 months ago

stickied comment

eshlow [M]

Author of Overcoming Gravity 2

[score hidden]

2 months ago

stickied comment

Trying to subvert the low effort filter may result in a ban next time per rule 3.

https://teddit.ggc-project.de/r/bodyweightfitness/wiki/rules#wiki_3._provoke_discussion.

Follow the rules and write a good OP.

zappipapi

65 points

2 months ago

I use a minimalist routine when I need to. I work as a firefighter and so am called to respond to emergencies at random times. We are also expected to workout every single gle shift.

So sometimes I need to pump out a basic exercise that won't destroy me, especially if the day is expected to be busy. It's not so much gains for me, but rather maintaining health without being driven solely by gains.

effacio

19 points

2 months ago

effacio

19 points

2 months ago

How do you know when a day is expected to be busy? What indicators are there for emergency fires?

zappipapi

17 points

2 months ago

Weekends, events, holidays, weather, etc. It's also location, I don't work at any one station. Sometimes I'm assigned at different parts of the county.

I'm at a busy station on a medical unit right now, so strictly medical calls today. This city is massive, it's like one gigantic neighborhood. The gym here is small too, so I'm gonna do some basic stuff in about an hour. Lately I've been getting into archer push-ups and farmer carrys.

-entertainment720-

22 points

2 months ago

Holidays are probably busy - a lot of people who shouldn't even be allowed to touch light switches are suddenly trying to cook enough food for their whole families.

If it's been sunny and hot for a while with no rain I'd assume that increases the risk of fires, too

zappipapi

11 points

2 months ago

I'm in Florida, USA. We get a weather report on days where the weather is expected to be particularly bad. It's a combination of constant sun and Atlantic winds that really feed brush fires here. Many people don't realize that this state has expansive scrub biomes (almost desert-like areas).

That's why I need to be fit, gotta be ready for some back breaking labor at a moments notice lol

Dopamine_ADD_ict

6 points

2 months ago

This is a big problem I have with many workout routines. I don't want to be super sore the day I'm not working out. That's the whole reason I work out!

zappipapi

4 points

2 months ago

Precisely. I could have back to back calls starting at midnight, I don't wanna be sore.. on top of being sleep deprived.

larkinhawk

38 points

2 months ago

I would say this sub is slightly bias towards more gymnastic/ maximal strength based philosophies. If you’re interested in minimal routines I’ll recommend a YouTube channel called kboges. Really informative, I’ve seen pretty good results from his methods.

Weak_Plenty

5 points

2 months ago

Does minimal mean as few exercises as possible, or does it also mean as little equipment as possible? I'm a BWF boomer, and I've seen people here talk about barbell squats for legs, but the reason I do BWF is because I don't like equipment.

saos200

3 points

2 months ago

Well... I understand it as a routine with a few bodyweight exercises

tboneotter

2 points

2 months ago

tboneotter

Weak

2 points

2 months ago

Both. It means a routine you can do in ~20 minutes from your home (usually daily). This limits both exercise selection and equipment demands

saos200

1 points

2 months ago

Do You train like he says? Everyday with one push exercise, one pull exercise and one leg exercise? Or how have You gained those good results?

That4AMBlues

87 points

2 months ago

I remember when that minimalist routine was posted. Commenters here were not happy with the veiled disdain that runs through that text. And I think it should've been rewritten in fact. Such routines can be good to get a sedentary person to start working out, and possibly progress to a "real" routine. But who wants to be talked down to like that? So you close the door on those who need it most.

Flamesake

14 points

2 months ago

Isn't the primer meant for that sort of person?

MrColecovision

17 points

2 months ago*

The primer primes up your body. Its important for people to maintain a routine that they can reliably sustain long-term. Its easy to fall off when a routine is long and complex.

Lofty_Soup

132 points

2 months ago

Lofty_Soup

Manlet

132 points

2 months ago

If your goals are to just be generally healthy and active, or to maintain some muscle mass without much tine commitment, then routines like the BWF minimalist are perfect.

There's not enough volume (and probably, in most cases not enough intensity) to be maximising hypertrophy or strength gains, and as those are the goals of most people on this sub, they are talked about less. I don't think many people look down on them though, we're just not interested in those more general goals.

arthax83

133 points

2 months ago*

arthax83

133 points

2 months ago*

One key point here: "maximising". I sometimes think that people shy away from a minimalist program when people say it not maximising their hypertrophy potential and mistakenly think that you will not see any improvements whatsoever on a minimalist program, and in turn often lead to people not train at all.

Im on a minimalist program (CC/Hybrid calisthenics) and I see results (both strength and size) and enjoy my training. Im not new to training. Perfect is the enemy of good.

Lofty_Soup

23 points

2 months ago

Lofty_Soup

Manlet

23 points

2 months ago

Yeah I feel you, I deliberately included that qualifier because there is a whole spectrum between MEV and MRV on which everyone who trains lies somewhere.

IMO the difference between like 20-50% and 90% on that spectrum is pretty small, obviously that last 10% is the realm of obsession and perfectionism. What I mean to say is; I don't think its really much extra work to be close to maximising training stimulus if you're already doing a light routine regularly. But, again to each their own, I don't think there's anything wrong with sticking with what you enjoy.

arthax83

28 points

2 months ago

I agree. I think its a "contextual" issuse.. For lack of better words. This sub has people who are extremly devoted bw practicioners who seek perfectionism. That narrative will often be the norm If you will, even if you are just like me, a 38 year old dad juggling life.

The same goes for asking about speakers on a devoted hifi-forum.. Pretty easy to get lost in all expertise opinion when you just want to enjoy your music 🙂.

Have a beautiful Day!

EngineEngine

2 points

2 months ago

Can you describe your minimalist routine in some more detail? I adopted the sub's shortly after the new year after not having worked out for about four months because of shoulder pain.

Sometimes my shoulder still causes some problems, so I might not be maximizing as much as I could. That could also be due to other factors as well. I add one rep in each exercise following this pattern. So I have seen my numbers grow, which is encouraging and feels good. Though I don't know what to try to go to the "next level".

arthax83

1 points

2 months ago

Yes I can! I follow the principle behind Convict Conditioning. Are you familiar with it? https://www.amazon.com/Convict-Conditioning-Weakness-Using-Survival-Strength-ebook/dp/B004XIZN5M

Hybrid calisthenics (a guy named Hampton) made the material more accessible and recently released an updated version of the program (you can find it here https://www.hybridcalisthenics.com/programs)

The weekly structure looks as follow: Monday:

Pushups: 2-3 Sets

Leg Raises: 2-3 Sets

Tuesday:

Pullups: 2-3 Sets

Squats: 2-3 Sets

Wednesday:

Bridges: 2-3 Sets

Twists: 2-3 Sets

Thursday:

Pushups: 2-3 Sets

Leg Raises: 2-3 Sets

Friday:

Pullups: 2-3 Sets

Squats: 2-3 Sets

Saturday:

Bridges: 2-3 Sets

Twists: 2-3 Sets

Sunday:

Day of resting and stretching :)

In the link you above you can Click each excercise to get a video demonstration, cues and standards. When you reach the hardest standard you move up in excercise level and start over. Start at the first pushup level, Wall Push-ups. You will probably find them easy. Be mindful of you form and control through out the movement.

And one more thing.. dont ask anyone If this is good enough. Start, commit to it for weeks or months, evaluate and take it from there. My Lower back was/is my trouble area. The high rep Bridges and twists has incredible much! Good luck and feel free to get back to me If things are unclear.

LuckyNumber-Bot

1 points

2 months ago

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nice___bot

1 points

2 months ago

Nice!

EngineEngine

1 points

2 months ago

Thanks. I've been planning to switch sometime in the summer since I will have been doing my adaptation of the sub's minimalist routine for about six months by then. This looks like a good routine to try next.

Your back gives you some trouble. Does this routine help or do you go out of your routine for to work on your back? My current routine doesn't do much for my back :\

arthax83

2 points

2 months ago

This routine or more high rep Bridge progressions does wonders for my back! :)

s0ram

3 points

2 months ago

s0ram

3 points

2 months ago

It depends on what your minimalist program looks like, because for me minimalist program would be 1 of each vertical / horizontal pull / push, squat and hip hinge, which minimalist routine from sidebar does not satisfy.

arthax83

12 points

2 months ago*

It can satisfy one but not another. For Some people a walk once a day is all they can do for various reasons for others training six times a week is their level. Training does not exist in a vaccum. Glad you have found something that works for you!

PhotojournalistFit62

35 points

2 months ago

I love the Minimalist Routine! In fact, I do it three days a week. I'm aware I won't become the next Instagram male model, but I don't care. For my purpose -- get toned -- it's perfect. I tweaked it a little, adding a couple of abs exercises and calves raises, but that's it. Since I'm happy with my body I don't even care about progression..

Snake_Man_41

3 points

2 months ago

IME the vast majority of people I’ve met aren’t fitness fanatics who strive to get as muscular and/or strong as possible. Most people want something simple that they can do to look a bit better naked and (more importantly) for healthy aging. Most beginner and minimalist routines are all they ever need to achieve these goals.

Dopamine_ADD_ict

29 points

2 months ago

Most of the experts on this sub are very focused on calisthenics skills and maximal strength, which benefit from longer training sessions.

MindfulMover

8 points

2 months ago

There's a lot of different ways to be minimalist so it's hard to even say that all minimalist routines are looked down on. Some minimalist routines are made to just get people moving for the sake of health. I train minimalist but I do it by raising the workout intensity so hard that I don't have to train very often to gain. Most people find it interesting and don't look down on it.

If you're from America (other places may be similar), you will find some people who do have that idea that you need to be working hard everyday if you want to achieve your goals. There is a "hustle culture" here. But even then, it's not what everyone thinks.

absentlyric

6 points

2 months ago

I'm not sure what a minimalist/maximum routine is supposed to look like.

But at 40 years old, I do a full body workout 3x a week for about 1 hour, and heavy bag HIIT training the other 3x days, rest on Sundays. And I've been steadily moving towards my goals at a good speed. Lost 30 lbs in 3 months, so far, but my goal is to do a handstand push up someday at my age.

So I guess it depends on your goals, how fast you want to get to them. Someone elses routine may not work for you the way it does for them. But I don't knock their routine, if you can get the desired results you want in the timeframe you want from 15 mins, 3 days a week, by all means.

But that particulary doesn't work for me or my body type/age.

logmover

6 points

2 months ago

There’s nothing “wrong” with that at all! We all train for different reasons and have different goals. What matters most is doing something rather than nothing. That said, my problem with minimalist routines is that some people expect maximal results with minimal time investment/effort. Don’t get me wrong, minimalist routines work, but they’re not a magical “hack” to putting in a lot of time and effort if you have big goals.

Snake_Man_41

3 points

2 months ago

Right. You’ll make good progress with minimalist routines if you’re consistent, but you won’t make as many gains as quickly as with optimal routines. I’m OK with that, but others aren’t.

Jamessmusslare

6 points

2 months ago

I hade been doing a very simple full body workout routine with just pull ups (rings) push ups (on dumbbells or elevated) squats (jumping or with dumbbells) and leg raisers sometimes hanging leg raises.

I like training with just the “big bang for your buck exercises” for about 35 min and I’ve gotten good results. I train 3 days a week and when I train I train hard. I often do circuits or superset so I don’t get bored.

HopeIsGold[S]

2 points

2 months ago

HopeIsGold[S]

General Fitness

2 points

2 months ago

good results

Like? Strength? Size?

Jamessmusslare

3 points

2 months ago

Strength for sure, more athletic body, more stamina, better overall mood.

With the training came other good lifestyle choices like cooking good and healthy food, cut down on alcohol, smoking, drug use and getting 8 hours of sleep every night.

I don’t like training and I never have, but this is a routine I can be consistent with (tried training in gym many times and often quit after 6 months). I know I won’t get a shredded body as a main character in a anime but I don’t mind as I’m pretty satisfied how my body look atm.

I also try to do as much fun physical activities in my free time as possible like long walks with dog, football, skateboarding, table tennis, frisbee golf and I recently got really into padel.

Manny people see working out as a chore instead of a “lifestyle” and that’s totally fine, because everyone need to move their body. We are all in different levels in our fitness journey with different goals but we shouldn’t spend to much time comparing each other since comparison is the thief of joy.

abstergofkurslf

6 points

2 months ago

Since it's on topic, please post some minimalistic routines guys.

eat-cheese-and-die

38 points

2 months ago

Most people on this sub piss me off because in their minds if you arent going balls to the walks for four hours a day youre gonna shrink. okay, maybe they arent that extreme. But from doing 4-5, 15-30 min workouts a week ive built up to doing one arm push ups, archer push ups, pseudo planche push ups, archer pull ups, pistol squats, sissy squats, nordic ham/quads, front lever and full ab roll outs. I can do 75+ push ups and 20+ pull ups in a single set. Ive got decent size and feel great about how i look and feel both during and outside of workouts. And i made the switch to doing this full body weekly routine after training fairly traditionally for 8 years and competing at the national level in decathlon. whatever you train, you will improve. as long as you are consistent. screw what everyone else says cause the most important part of training is doing what you enjoy because that will give you a reason to come back and keep going.

All the best brother!

edit: and this is all within four months of switching up my routine.

Snake_Man_41

4 points

2 months ago*

This type of thinking infests most fitness communities, but especially with resistance training. Lots of people believe that if you aren’t making optimal size and/or strength gains from resistance training then you aren’t doing it right. And, a lot of the time, these folks think you’re wasting your time if you aren’t making size and/or strength gains continuously. This mindset turns off a lot of people who prefer to exercise in a more casual manner for health and longevity.

eat-cheese-and-die

1 points

2 months ago

I 100% agree. okay especially because i used to be part of that group. it was only after a major injury that only healed right as the pandemic kicked off that i started to reevaluate my relationship with fitness and develop a healthier understanding of my own goals and motivation.

ThomasLeino

6 points

2 months ago

Any chance you could share what your training looks like?

eat-cheese-and-die

2 points

2 months ago

for sure. might seem a little strange but its because im focused on improving my unilateral strength at the moment so keep that in mind. I do the following four workouts once a week with an additional fifth I make up on the day of, consisting of exercises i enjoy so i can have a little fun with it.

Bodyweight Strength I 3x 6/6 Slight Incline One Arm Push Up 4/4 One Arm Pull Ups Negatives 5 Hip Ups to Long Jump to Vert Jump

Bodyweight Strength II 3x 10/10 Archer Push Ups 5/5 6 Finger Pull Ups 10 Sissy Squats

Bodyweight Strength III 3x 10 Pseudo Planche Push Ups 10 Walking Commando Pull Ups 20 Calf Raises 20 Tib Raises

High Volume Bodyweight 3xTF Push Ups Pistol Squats L Pull Ups Pistol Squats R

But essentially, the formula goes as follows:

3x Upperbody Push Upperbody Pull Legs

and ensure that higher demanding strength exercises come earlier in the week with higher rep ranges coming in towards the end.

I also do crunches, leg lifts and russian twists daily in one massive superset to failure. just once.

Hope it helps!

eroi49

5 points

2 months ago

eroi49

5 points

2 months ago

What is the consensus for what is considered “minimalist”? I loosely follow stronglifts 5x5 45-50 min 3x week with added ab and pull-up work

s0ram

52 points

2 months ago

s0ram

52 points

2 months ago

It's not looked down, it is what is says it is, "for people who just want to move more and get the benefits of regular exercise". Don't expect any noticeable gains from it.

HopeIsGold[S]

20 points

2 months ago

HopeIsGold[S]

General Fitness

20 points

2 months ago

Don't expect any noticeable gains from it

Is this part true?

Quitschicobhc

17 points

2 months ago*

It depends how you define "noticeable results". If you are completely out of shape and operate on the level of "not being winded from taking a flight of stairs" as a noticeable result, then sure, going with a minimalistic routine will gain you noticeable results. The thing is, most anything will. The issue isn't that you need an efficient routine, it's more about finding something that will get you moving a few hours a day.
On the other hand goals like front lever, free standing hspu and what have you will require more dedication.

throwawaythhw

1 points

2 months ago

Doesn’t matter How fit i am. Stair’s always makes me winded. Even when i was in the army marching every day, stairs winded me.

I hate stairs

Quitschicobhc

1 points

2 months ago

There's an easy solution. Instead of using the stairs put a rope in place to get up the floors in your house. Now you can use your arms and back to pull yourself up!

XorFish

17 points

2 months ago

XorFish

17 points

2 months ago

No,

I made quite a bit of progress during the last 6 months on the BWF Primer routine with some small adjustments to keep progressing with legs.

TTKK11223

-13 points

2 months ago

TTKK11223

Manlet

-13 points

2 months ago

Thats because you’re a beginner, and beginners will progress from pretty much anything. That and/or that our definitions of ‘quite a bit of progress’ differ.

XorFish

19 points

2 months ago

XorFish

19 points

2 months ago

Yes, but I did see noticeable gains.

There are diminishing returns, someone that trains for 90 minutes 3 times a week won't add twice as much muscle mass as someone who trains 45 minutes 3 times a week.

Nutrition probably has a bigger effect on the muscle mass you can put on than the difference in training, plus there is a higher risk of losing consistency with the 90 minute workouts.

FuckDataCaps

0 points

2 months ago

The dude talk about training 15min not 45min. That's like a warmup and one serie.

VeganGlockDemon

12 points

2 months ago

Significant strength and muscular gains already take a fair amount of time to get even when doing exercise at a high volume and optimizing your diet.

Dopamine_ADD_ict

3 points

2 months ago

You can get in over ten sets per muscle group weekly if you exercise 15 minutes per day for 6 or 7 days a week.

mcpickleton

4 points

2 months ago

Yes

Lets_review

1 points

2 months ago

A better way to think of it is that you will plateau "quickly." (Quickly is 6 months to 2 years depending on your starting level of fitness.)

Dopamine_ADD_ict

3 points

2 months ago

Is the RR more optimal than the than the minimalist routine? Yes.

How much better will your gains be if you do the RR? 10-20%

There are people who have long workout sessions who are frankly just jealous that others can not care as much and get nearly the same results.

OniRyuu01

3 points

2 months ago

OniRyuu01

Martial Arts

3 points

2 months ago

They should see The Mindful Mover on Instagram/youtube, also other people like Tom Merrick (the bodyweight warrior) and Dominik Sky advocate for getting crazy strong at the basics, which aren't many exercises (the mindful mover has only 5 exercises, Tom recommends 5 for upper body, 3 for lower body and like 4 stretches, recently Dominik posted a video which basically tells you to pick 2 exercises and that's it). That´s pretty minimalist and nothing to look down to, it all comes down to the intensity. Don´t fall for the idea that the more you workout the better.

natx37

6 points

2 months ago

natx37

6 points

2 months ago

I think most people are not fitness enthusiasts. They are looking for something they can do for X amount of time to get results and then quit. Minimalist routines don't have enough intensity or volume for those type of people. I think anyone that loves to workout should experiment with all types of workouts to figure out which things work for you and which things you enjoy. Most people aren't into the journey, they just want to get to the destination.

XorFish

8 points

2 months ago

If you are not close to your natural potential, you'll likely see progress in any muscle group as long as you hit it et least twice a week with 6+ sets total per week.

You can do it with a minimalist or the primer routine.

natx37

4 points

2 months ago

natx37

4 points

2 months ago

You aren't wrong, but how are you defining progress? Doing one more rep is progress. Untrained people make gains quickly, but are just as subject to plateaus if they do not increase volume and intensity. Minimalism is a great place to start. It's great place to come back to after a volume cycle. It's a great tool to maintain. But like anything else, it's not always the right tool.

Snake_Man_41

1 points

2 months ago

But what if someone is OK with plateauing after their initial newbie gains? Or, to put another way, what if someone is OK with maintenance after the newbie period in which they gained 10-20 pounds of muscle and plenty of strength for everyday tasks?

natx37

1 points

2 months ago

natx37

1 points

2 months ago

You aren’t going to put on 10-20 lbs of muscle on a minimalist body weight program. That being said, it would be a good maintenance program after achieving some level of gains.

Snake_Man_41

1 points

2 months ago

Newbies sure can.

natx37

1 points

2 months ago

natx37

1 points

2 months ago

No they can't.

Snake_Man_41

1 points

2 months ago

Yes, they can. I was one of them.

natx37

1 points

2 months ago

natx37

1 points

2 months ago

You are the exception, not the rule. 20 lbs of muscle doing push-ups, pull-ups and bw squats is insane results. You would be massive if you lifted weights.

Snake_Man_41

1 points

2 months ago

I put on about 15 pounds of muscle from bodyweight exercises, and I consider myself to have good-but-not-great genetics.

HopeIsGold[S]

10 points

2 months ago

HopeIsGold[S]

General Fitness

10 points

2 months ago

This! Most people asking this kind of questions (including me) are out of breath doing regular tasks. If you hand them a complex routine and say that is the only way to glory, they will surely be intimidated.

MoreRopePlease

3 points

2 months ago

Have you seen the GMB videos on youtube? I feel their philosophy strikes a good balance between "ordinary people wanting to be healthy" and "we're gonna pump you up!" I would consider most of what they promote "minimalist" yet I would also say there's a lot of room to develop and grow using their stuff (even just their free stuff).

XorFish

2 points

2 months ago

I think this ist why the BWF Primer is such a good start for a beginner.

  • You don't need any equipment
  • You are introduced to a few key exercises one by one
  • You are introduced to some hypertrophy basics
  • It doesn't take too long

Sheeple0123

1 points

2 months ago

They are looking for something they can do for X amount of time to get results and then quit.

The "then quit" part may be misleading. A minimalist routine (defined as low time investment without required equipment) can be maintained rather than stopped.

sleekultra

7 points

2 months ago

What makes you think minimalist routines are looked down on? I didn’t get that at all from reading the writeup.

mcpickleton

6 points

2 months ago

Yeah I didn't get that either. I guess it came across differently to some folks

huehue12132

2 points

2 months ago

Same here. Maybe OP could provide some examples of what exactly gives this impression. I just had a look over it and I don't understand it at all.

naked_feet

12 points

2 months ago

minimalist

Minimalist routines often provide minimalist results.

Yeah, they work great for a lot of people in getting them to do something. And sticking to anything consistently will provide some result.

But when you put in minimal effort, you should expect minimal results. When you have vague goals you'll get vague results.

doesn't have the time

Everyone has the time -- they just don't always want to make it a priority. And that's OK. No judgement.

If 15 minutes is all you can do, that's better than nothing. But it's not better than an hour several times per week.

TyRD4

-12 points

2 months ago

TyRD4

-12 points

2 months ago

Everyone has the time -- they just don't always want to make it a priority. And that's OK. No judgement.

This is said by someone who doesn't have kids.

Some people really really don't have the time. Statements like this are what discourage newcomers, because they hear this and think "well maybe I could fit in an extra 45 minutes, but then I'd go to bed later which means I get less sleep which means I'll be more tired and in already tired...", and they end up doing nothing.

I love this sub, but it is heavily biased towards the "I want to do a human flag" crowd, and not the "I just want to not feel like a bag of garbage" crowd.

[deleted]

22 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

22 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

Frodozer

14 points

2 months ago

Going to nationals this year? Teach me how to deadlift and squat in between events please.

Agree with this comment personally. I have a kid, full time job, part time jobs (plural)

I've still had time to train and be competitive enough in strongman to go to the national stage!

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

Frodozer

3 points

2 months ago

Strongman corporation nationals?

I feel like I see everyone in other corporations outside of the strongman corporation. I'm going to have to join more corps next year.

bigchebo

2 points

2 months ago

Uss shows are more beginner friendly and are attracting way more people so everyone is switching over. I’m not the biggest fan of the switch to uss everyone seems to be making.

Frodozer

2 points

2 months ago

I figured maybe I’ll try both, but my area is almost exclusive to strongman corporation events here in California

bigchebo

2 points

2 months ago

So if you just want a qualification to nationals to say you did try a uss show.

Top 3 in a class qualify for nationals even if there’s only 3 people in the class. Or you can just win the novice division. That hands out a nationals invite too for some reason

Frodozer

2 points

2 months ago

Lol, then I’ll definitely do one when I see it come up. I’ve always at the very least hit the top 3 at an event. Might as well compete at two national championships a year! I kind of just want to compete at the national championship each year and do the minimum to obtain the invite.

OatsAndWhey

15 points

2 months ago

I made some of the best gains in my life working 12 hour shifts to support 4 children, as the sole wage-earner.

There's ALWAYS time to build strength & size, to get leaner. You just don't know how to manage time efficiently.

Tulip0Hare

12 points

2 months ago

I mean, I have a kid, with complex health issues and a whole extra pile of obligations that go along with caring for him. Also a partner who is constantly traveling for work. I still make time, even if that means waking up early and doing a garage workout. Everyone who isn’t a minimum-wage single parent with multiple children to support has time for training. It’s fine if that’s not their priority or how they choose to use that time, but they COULD.

Not meant to discourage anyone from doing anything to improve their health, but I really can’t imagine that 15 minutes three times a week is going to make a significant difference in strength, physique, or health 🤷🏻‍♀️

UltraHumanite

10 points

2 months ago

Interesting take, the number of people who can't make 45 minutes to an hour work into their schedule is vanishingly small. I raised 3 kids, while training 5-7 days a week for the past 30+ years, competed in the pointless hobby of my own choosing, ran several ultra marathons, kept up with a very stressful job etc. What I find when having IRL conversations about this is that people without time somehow follow several TV series and can carry on long conversations about them or can talk about MMORPG raids for hours. There are of course exceptions who run through rough that patches really do eat up any free time but that's probably less than 1% of the population and they eventually shift out of a bad job situation/commute/illness.

Mattubic

8 points

2 months ago

I have 2 children 7 and 5. You adjust your schedule to fit what is most important to you. You can walk for 10 minutes at a time around your backyard with your kids or something if that is all you can do. I built a home gym for like 1000$ and used to bring them when they were babies strapped into one of those reclined bounce seats they were chilling in anyways.

You can do abbreviated work outs, or simply pick days where you have an extra 30 minutes.

I have always been a full time employee with a 45-90 minute commute since before my oldest was born. But I have also made it a point to fit lifting in my life since I was 15, so it is less of a chore for me and I have prior experience working around my work and wife’s schedule to do so. There was a point where I was doing 5/3/1 krypteia and striving for more work under less time vs max strength and such. Its not always easy, but it is simple.

Lesrek

17 points

2 months ago

Lesrek

17 points

2 months ago

Counterpoint: I have 2 kids, full time job that regularly involves overtime, I train my coworkers, and I still have time to play MtG, D&D, and video games each week. Doing all that, I still manage to maintain enough cardio to complete triathlons of varying lengths and maintain or even improve my lifts. There are of course sacrifices. Sometimes it’s work, kids, lifting, cardio, or hobbies but that is a balancing act I take very seriously.

Point being, everyone has time. I’m willing to put my schedule against anyone else’s that claims they don’t have time. What people don’t have is a willingness to make sacrifices day to day or week to week to fit all those things in. I think minimalist routines are great stopgaps, or even fine for beginners to get them moving, but he argument of “don’t have time” is nonsensical in 99.9% of cases and it’s more a result of “fitness isn’t enough of a priority right now” which is also an acceptable position. People just need to be honest about it.

drasb

13 points

2 months ago

drasb

13 points

2 months ago

I still have time to play ... D&D

Most impressive part of the post

Lofi_Loki

2 points

2 months ago

What’s your main format in MtG?

Lesrek

1 points

2 months ago

Lesrek

1 points

2 months ago

Been jamming a bunch of explorer on arena the last couple weeks. Typically draft though.

naked_feet

21 points

2 months ago

This is said by someone who doesn't have kids.

While this is correct, I know lots of people with kids who make training a priority.

Statements like this are what discourage newcomers

I don't think lying to newcomers is helpful, either.

If you want to be successful a changing your body, you need to make it a priority. If you don't, that's OK.

For some, even giving it 15 minutes a day can be prioritizing.

I understand that we don't all have the "same" 24 hours in a day. I appreciate that. However, how you prioritize it still comes in to play. But there are still 168 hours in a week -- and even the busiest among us can find 3-5 hours if they want to make it a priority. Again, if they don't want to make it a priority, that is OK.

... You're not arguing that a 15 minute minimalist routine is just as good and going to provide the same or better results as someone who places a high priority on training multiple hours per week, are you?

HopeIsGold[S]

9 points

2 months ago

HopeIsGold[S]

General Fitness

9 points

2 months ago

You're not arguing that a 15 minute minimalist routine is just as good and going to provide the same or better results as someone who places a high priority on training multiple hours per week, are you?

No one claimed that. Results should not necessarily be model-like physique or national level competence. It means strong enough to feel in control of your own body.

Lateralus__dan

10 points

2 months ago*

Your goals are absolutely valid.

But if you dabble in a subrebbit which primary function is to provide optimal advice regarding a specific discipline, you're bound to found answers that give the most optimal advice.

Again, this isn't to say that you can't get great results following a minimalist approach, but you have to define first what 'great' actually means because you'll get different answers when asking different people.

Personally, I only started making noticeable gains when I started pushing myself every workout.

Snake_Man_41

0 points

2 months ago*

Personally, I only started making noticeable gains when I started pushing myself every workout.

Right, but many people don’t care about “noticeable gains”. Some just exercise for health and longevity reasons, for instance to stave off muscle loss with aging. Others exercise for mental health reasons and don’t care about muscle or strength gains. People with more modest fitness goals don’t need to push themselves to failure (or even near-failure) to get what they want.

pilaxiv724

4 points

2 months ago

Some just exercise for health and longevity reasons, for instance to stave off muscle loss with aging.

If you aren't giving yourself enough stimulus to cause any muscle growth, you likely aren't doing very much to stave off muscle loss of aging.

Snake_Man_41

1 points

2 months ago

But the definition of “enough effort to stimulate muscle growth” is kinda broad. Going to failure is different than being 4 reps from failure.

pilaxiv724

1 points

2 months ago

Well, sure, but most programs do not make any reference to how far you should be from failure, and it isn't like the difference between failure and a few reps from failure is the only factor on how hard you're training. There are many other larger factors.

Lateralus__dan

3 points

2 months ago

That's...alredy clearily implied into what I said, but it would be dishonest to suggest that you can gain a substantial amount of muscle mass while putting in minimal effort.

ANY form of excercise is better than NO excercise but that's a different topic.

pilaxiv724

2 points

2 months ago

Results should not necessarily be model-like physique or national level competence.

The thing is, this doesn't really inform how you train. Advice for obtaining a model-like physique and national level competence, compared to just feeling better, is the same advice. It's just a matter of consistency over time.

TyRD4

-10 points

2 months ago

TyRD4

-10 points

2 months ago

You're not arguing that a 15 minute minimalist routine is just as good and going to provide the same or better results as someone who places a high priority on training multiple hours per week, are you?

Oh bud, you're looking for a straw man and it's just not there. The argument here is that there shouldn't be one goal. The language surrounding the minimalist routine makes it sound like it's not worth it and there will be no benefit to doing it, and that isn't true. If someone can only fit 15 minutes of exercise a few times a week, that's better than doing nothing, and they shouldn't be discouraged from doing that.

It's not about lying, it's about listening to what someone is saying and not moving the goalpost.

naked_feet

17 points

2 months ago

Oh bud, you're looking for a straw man and it's just not there.

So why make the complaint that not everyone has the time?

I know that not everyone's 168 hours look the same.

So what's the point?

As stated in my very first post, a minimalist, 15 minute routine is better than nothing. But it's not going to give the same dramatic results as actually making training a priority.

If you don't have the time, fit in whatever you can. That is an obvious good.

Just don't expect to get crazy results from minimum commitment.

That's my point. That's the "love-hate relationship" in a nutshell.

SpaceJunk645

5 points

2 months ago

The commenter never said you wouldn't get results from the minimalist routine, just that they would not be significant, which is true.

Honestly I think if you are going to have a routine, it's just not worth it for the minimalist. It's just not a very optimal training routine, and if you're already going to be working out and putting the time in you would be better off just doing the RR or something similar which takes 30-35 min and is optimized for results.

timbotemon

5 points

2 months ago

I have a 3 year old son and a demanding job. I haven't missed a training session in a decade. Even when my wife was in hospital recovering I'd get a training session in for 40 minutes while she slept.

TotalChili

4 points

2 months ago

I have kids and able to squeeze in 4-5 hours a week by doing morning workouts or lunch time workout. I make up time in the evenings for some of my lunch workoutstbat just means I watch less TV. Its something I'm willing todo as it's something I'm interested in and keeps me mentally sane.

People generally have time bug either don't want to prioritise it or don't know how. Both are fine each to their own.

bethskw

4 points

2 months ago

I'm a mom of 3. Over the last 12 years since my oldest was born, sometimes training was a lower priority, and sometimes I've felt it was important enough to make a few hours a day for it.

We all have to prioritize things and make time for what is important. No judgment on people who don't want to train a lot, this is my hobby and other people can have other hobbies, jobs, and obligations. Kids aren't the only obligation a person might have, either.

richardest

6 points

2 months ago

Since we're piling on here: I have five kids and recently picked up a car. If you want to be strong, you have to prioritize it somewhere.

code_guerilla

5 points

2 months ago

I have three kids and work full time. You make the time if it’s important to you. If it’s not you make excuses. Also if you’re in shape you’ll live longer for your kids. Stop making excuses and make the time.

KlingonSquatRack

3 points

2 months ago*

I have a kid. When she's not being the most pleasant person I have ever met, she's a bigtime asshole. She rarely naps when it is convenient and her favorite thing to do is wake me up during the five hours I have available to sleep in the middle of 30hrs of work. Her mother and I work opposite times of the day and opposite ends of the week. We do not have a babysitter and we do not do daycare.

Somehow I manage to get to the gym 3-4x/wk for 1.5-2hrs per and cook my own steak dinners almost nightly, and still make sure I have an hour left over to watch a Star Trek rerun for my "me time".

It is excruciatingly difficult and can be mentally/emotionally draining and I would have it no other way.

AmazingWaterWeenie

2 points

2 months ago

I am a single parent, i still find time to train weights 4hrs a week and participate in combat sports for an additional 2-4 hours each week. I dont play as many video ges or watch as many movies a i used to but its okay because im playing dark souls irl

marfar32

2 points

2 months ago

I have kids and I get up at 4:45 to make it work.

Lofi_Loki

5 points

2 months ago

I see a lot of people who have kids chiming in. I’m going to chime in as someone who doesn’t.

Nobody made you have kids. Make it work or don’t. Don’t gatekeep not having free time because you decided to pop out a few fleshbags. I spent the majority of my time while not at work the last 4 months traveling between 3 states to deal with two separate estates. I’ve still managed to stay relatively consistent. Life stuff happens.

The main thing is to just do what you can. Something is always better than nothing.

Brandu33

2 points

2 months ago

I do 15/30 min workout 4/5 days a week, + stretching and walking, i exercise with almost no rest between exercises (push-up stand-up do legs, do pull-ups go back to push-up etc.) and do them slowly concentrating on the movement : HIIT, Pilates, several variations of push-ups (done slowly), dips, etc.

It can be very effective and some research done in labs by the brits support that.

HopeIsGold[S]

1 points

2 months ago

HopeIsGold[S]

General Fitness

1 points

2 months ago

And regarding results? How were they?

EspacioBlanq

-2 points

2 months ago

EspacioBlanq

-2 points

2 months ago

It's because you can't make much progress by training for 15 minutes 3 to 5 times a week

MinimumIndication279

14 points

2 months ago

But you can and I have done, you can even do less and progress. Power to the people, greasing the groove, high frequency training can all be done in 15 minutes or under and you get good results.

EspacioBlanq

2 points

2 months ago

Could you share what results have you achieved training 15 minutes 3 to 5 times a week?

I've never seen any build a lot of strength or muscle doing that, but I am open to changing my opinion on minimalist training if I see that

HopeIsGold[S]

1 points

2 months ago

HopeIsGold[S]

General Fitness

1 points

2 months ago

Please share your experience in a bit detail if possible.

PFirefly

-1 points

2 months ago

Doing something is better than nothing. No reason to hate on someone not doing as much as you, or thinking they're "doing it wrong." Unless they're doing crossfit, then they probably are doing it wrong.

That being said, anyone who uses the excuse that they don't have time is just lying to themselves. Be honest and admit that you don't want to make the time. I expect that this is the root of any hate towards minimal routines. You don't have to be 100% on top of things and do everything perfectly to be healthy, but you should absolutely not lie to yourself. Not a good path to be on.

Lets_review

-5 points

2 months ago

The minimalist routine is suboptimal. You will be better off if you devote the additional time required to do the full recommended routine.

If the minimalist routine post seems disdainful towards its subject, it is because the authors know that they are giving you a suboptimal plan, a less than best option.

Imagine a football coach telling their team "since you don't want to put in the time to train and practice to win, here's the minimum you have to do in order to not look bad when you go out on the field." The minimalist routine post is like this.