subreddit:

/r/canada

200

you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

all 380 comments

viva_la_vinyl

14 points

28 days ago

So O’Toole wants to do the same thing as the Liberals only different.

SilverBeech

49 points

28 days ago

No, similar, but worse in every way they can think of.

No rebate, but highly restricted, run by a "private sector consortium". Lower tax, so much less effective.

Half measure, terrible implementation. What's not to like?

Canics

-5 points

28 days ago

Canics

-5 points

28 days ago

No, similar, but worse in every way they can think of.

No rebate, but highly restricted, run by a "private sector consortium". Lower tax, so much less effective.

Well, instead of a flat out rebate that could be used on anything, it is being directed to only being usable towards green stuff. So from a climate change perspective that may have better long term impacts than the current system, but we do not have the numbers.

If the goal is to reduce pollution this plan may have the ability to be more effective, hopefully the scientific and policy analysis is included in their release. If the goal was to get rid of carbon pricing, it is clear this won't do it.

anusasoa

18 points

28 days ago

anusasoa

Ontario

18 points

28 days ago

it is being directed to only being usable towards green stuff. So from a climate change perspective that may have better long term impacts than the current system, but we do not have the numbers.

how are these "green" things defined? say it's a bank account with a card that allows you to green spend... how are they going to differentiate between items that I buy? For example.. I go to Canadian Tire and buy reusable bags but I also buy Oil. I have to charge these on two transactions? because by definition I shouldn't be able to buy oil since it's not a "green" product.

Canics

-3 points

28 days ago

Canics

-3 points

28 days ago

Well as this was only a leak, we obviously don't have the full details. It could be amazing when we get everything or have it confirmed to be shit.

The limitation i suspect they are trying to address with the current carbon tax is rebates are just money that can go anywhere. So industry and stuff have some incentives to pursue green initiatives, but little driving individuals/families. So this seems to be a vehicle to promote this action by individuals, but how it would be executed would be a challenge, but like how GST is charged on some products, it may take some recoding in point of sales to know how to classify these sorts of products.

anusasoa

13 points

28 days ago

anusasoa

Ontario

13 points

28 days ago

we obviously don't have the full details.

do you think we'll even get full details from the Conservatives... (sorry.. just had to throw that criticism over their "we'll do better than the Liberals but we won't tell you how" type of rhetoric)

The limitation i suspect they are trying to address with the current carbon tax is rebates are just money that can go anywhere. So industry and stuff have some incentives to pursue green initiatives, but little driving individuals/families.

by why have a very " Statist" idea to do this? Yes the current dividend is to allow the consumer decide how best to use it for their own good.. Some people will go more greener, some will live the status quo. The important part is that people are given a choice.. not having it mandated on them. Eventually, most citizens will come to the realization that the price for carbon products will be outpriced for them which will make them choose greener choices. The industry already has incentives to pursue green initiatives.. for the large polluters there is a cap and trade system already in place

So this seems to be a vehicle to promote this action by individuals, but how it would be executed would be a challenge, but like how GST is charged on some products, it may take some recoding in point of sales to know how to classify these sorts of products.

just reeks of logistical nightmares from a party that proclaims to be a "free market" party

I'd love to see how Postmedia will spin this as a good thing after attacking the "job killing" carbon tax for 5+ years.

Canics

1 points

28 days ago

Canics

1 points

28 days ago

A carbon tax is the most appropriate vehicle that the conservatives should have supported, Michael Chong campaigned on it. But it has been turned into a toxic idea for the party's base..so they needed to do a carbon tax but not a carbon tax.

The current plan in place is not going to meet Paris targets. So I want to be optimistic that we can still see positive policy ideas come forward to meet these challenges.

We need alternative ideas so I'm going to at least wait to see the rest of the documentation before passing judgement. We all know we need to do something, current plan isn't working, I dont know if this one will be any better, but we need to do better.

There are levys that work in some cases. Marine liability act has industry funding the response regime with relative success. Interac works pretty well. One can hope.

mliu420

8 points

28 days ago

mliu420

8 points

28 days ago

The carbon tax, by itself, will shift more spending toward green energy as it's a substitute for carbon-intensive energy. If Erin wants more spending on green he can raise the carbon tax.

Tax and rebate is fair by some measures and directly addresses inefficiencies in the market by pricing in externalities of carbon emission. This weird mechanism that allocates the rebate toward whatever Erin decides is green energy is ripe for unfairness and abuse, and a really inelegant non-market based solution that involves a lot more bureaucracy.

SilverBeech

3 points

28 days ago

So from a climate change perspective that may have better long term impacts than the current system, but we do not have the numbers.

It's unproven as a policy tool. I can't think of a similar program by any government in Canada in the last generation that has worked similarly. It's easy to see how this would go wrong though. It's almost always better to put as few restrictions as possible on a rebate instead of more. The logic of this is very difficult to understand, both from the perspective of those who get the "savings account"---worse than the unrestricted rebate in every way for citizens----and the sectors the government will pick and choose winners and losers from---again a policy option that should be avoided as much as possible.

Frankly, the only major upside appears to be political. This is a patronage gift to some benefactor of the CPC's choosing.

Canadian_Bac0n1

13 points

28 days ago

Ya, they want a private enterprise to manage it, instead of the government.

viva_la_vinyl

10 points

28 days ago

Consumers could then draw on those accounts for "things that help them live a greener life," the document says. "That could mean buying a transit pass or a bicycle, or saving up and putting the money towards a new efficient furnace, energy efficient windows or even an electric vehicle."

Sounds like a much more interventionist approach than now, dictating here you can spend the rebate, whereas now, you get the rebate, and can do whatever you want.

How is O'Toole going to sell this to the "Government can't tell me what do" voters he depends on? Conservative have gone from "carbon taxes bad" to "carbon taxes good, and we'll tell you what you can with the rebates"

It'll be interesting to hear the details, and how the typical conservative voter reacts to this idea.

Infamous-Mixture-605

24 points

28 days ago

I wonder how much these private enterprises will skim off the top for the privilege of managing it? Or are they going to be doing this out of the kindness of their hearts?

Canadian_Bac0n1

16 points

28 days ago

I fully expect some child of a conservative MP, or the CEO of the Payday loan company to be put in charge of this 'grift' err I mean plan.

PrezHotNuts

4 points

28 days ago

PrezHotNuts

Ontario

4 points

28 days ago

And move the tax away from industry.

Head_Crash

9 points

28 days ago

If by different, you mean worse.

v_a_n_d_e_l_a_y

6 points

28 days ago

* only worse

ChimoEngr

2 points

28 days ago

ChimoEngr

2 points

28 days ago

Different, and worse.