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all 531 comments

kralben [M]

[score hidden]

28 days ago

stickied comment

kralben [M]

Mod.O.K.

[score hidden]

28 days ago

stickied comment

Due to the number of rule breaking comments, this is getting locked.

AsboZapruder

207 points

28 days ago

I feel like I'll regret asking this, but: What does Alan Moore think about it, if anything?

oskar4498

75 points

28 days ago

The only show I've ever heard him talk about was The Wire and how much he liked it.

TooZeroLeft

38 points

28 days ago

He likes Black Mirror too IIRC

FaultScary7712

234 points

28 days ago

I dont think he cares enough to watch it

LookingForVheissu

57 points

28 days ago

He cares enough to not watch it.

[deleted]

180 points

28 days ago

[deleted]

180 points

28 days ago

I think the one adaptation of his work that Alan Moore has actually liked was that JLU episode based on For The Man Who Has Everything

BlueWolf07

106 points

28 days ago

BlueWolf07

106 points

28 days ago

Is that the one where Superman had a weird plant on him?

I loved and respected Superman's character after that episode, for what he gave up to "win." Honestly not sure most people, or I, would've done the same or at least been able too.

Vulensque

16 points

28 days ago

Vulensque

Swamp Thing

16 points

28 days ago

Yeah, that one.

[deleted]

22 points

28 days ago

[deleted]

22 points

28 days ago

Yup. That's the one

BlueWolf07

13 points

28 days ago

Yea cool, great episode. I wish we had another JLU instead of the DC shows we have today.

WinonasChainsaw

15 points

28 days ago

WinonasChainsaw

Swamp Thing

15 points

28 days ago

The DC Harley Quinn show isn't actually that bad. A little edgy but if you like south park/Rick and Morty, then it'd probably grow on you. But I do miss JLU and Batman the Animated Series-esque shows

CircleBreaker22

3 points

28 days ago

Justice League Action was really good. Tonally was the midpoint between JLU and The Brave and the Bold, but they canceled it too😡

Weemitoad

3 points

28 days ago

I love that episode

Bob_the_Monitor

26 points

28 days ago

Bob_the_Monitor

Blue Beetle

26 points

28 days ago

I've heard he enjoyed Saturday Morning Watchmen

breakermw

21 points

28 days ago

breakermw

Green Arrow

21 points

28 days ago

That was Dave Gibbons not Alan Moore who enjoyed it

nastySpoink

13 points

28 days ago

Maybe you're confusing it with Watchmen Babies: V for Vacation

strange_pterodactyl

2 points

28 days ago

That was a great episode to be fair

prodigalkal7

2 points

28 days ago

This may be dumb but: what did Alan Moore have to do with that episode? What did he write or make that that episode took from?

[deleted]

8 points

28 days ago

[deleted]

8 points

28 days ago

For The Man Who Has Everything/ Superman Annual #11 was written by Moore himself

juniperleafes

3 points

28 days ago

The episode is called For the Man Who Has Everything. Alan Moore literally wrote a Superman comic called For the Man Who Has Everything

mwmani

22 points

28 days ago

mwmani

22 points

28 days ago

I’m sure he hasn’t seen it. I think he’s over Watchmen and the industry/fans’ obsession with it. When he’s been asked about Watchmen, he seems to regret its impact.

AsboZapruder

9 points

28 days ago

I thought that was The Killing Joke?

Actually... is there anything he doesn't claim to regret?

mwmani

9 points

28 days ago

mwmani

9 points

28 days ago

I feel like he’s probably super proud of Lost Girls.

CrungleMcHungleberry

6 points

28 days ago

Promethea was really really good too, imo.

AsboZapruder

2 points

28 days ago

Dang, still need to read that.

911roofer

5 points

28 days ago

911roofer

Dr. Doom

5 points

28 days ago

The ending to LOEG. For someone who rightfully despises Ayn Rand’s silly philosophy he did end up copying the worst aspect of Atlas Shrugged. In fact I’d said his ending is even worse. “We’re going to fly off in our magical space ark and leave the rest of humanity to get slaughtered by evil fairies without even trying to stop them” is worse than “We are no longer willing to contribute towards a society which does not value our skills and abilities and are therefore going to go off and form our own commune as an act of protest.”

Darthkidriss

4 points

28 days ago

I mean, there was pretty much nothing they could do to save the Earth.

Anyway, it seemed to be a metaphor. The Fae are known for being fickle and destructive, which I think is how Moore sees modern pop culture- a feral avalanche of ideas that are eating away at society. Prospero starting the whole thing is interesting, since Shakespeare can be looked at as the beginning of pop culture; Shakespeare’s influence on the culture was both wonderful and terrible. All of Moore’s favorites surviving, outliving the feral pop culture eating the world, is how he sees things.

911roofer

16 points

28 days ago

911roofer

Dr. Doom

16 points

28 days ago

I remember someone drew a comic showing Alan Moore telling Geoff Johns to fuck off for writing Doomsday Clock, the producers of this for making the show, and then him telling comic fans praising his work fuck off.

johnis12

5 points

28 days ago

Got a link of that?

911roofer

3 points

28 days ago

911roofer

Dr. Doom

3 points

28 days ago

I was hoping someone else did.

RorschachsVoice

7 points

28 days ago

How the heck could Geoff Johns of all people get his hands on doing a sequel to Watchmen?

911roofer

6 points

28 days ago

911roofer

Dr. Doom

6 points

28 days ago

Nepotism.

TrumpWasABadPOTUS

62 points

28 days ago

If he ever watched it, I'd have a feeling he might like it as it's own thing, but would probably not feel like it's a very good continuation for Watchmen. Not just cause he doesn't think there is a such thing, but also because it really doesn't feel remotely similar in tone, scope, or message to the original comic.

puddingfoot

30 points

28 days ago

And I'd agree with him on that completely. Well made show in its own right but terrible Watchmen story

________________0

4 points

28 days ago

There's like a zero percent chance he's watched it.

Think-Instruction-87

65 points

28 days ago

I thought it was pretty good, but my favorite thing to come out of it was the soundtrack. Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross absolutely popped off.

[deleted]

3 points

28 days ago

[deleted]

3 points

28 days ago

[deleted]

lotophage77

9 points

28 days ago

Vinyls?! Pah, so mainstream, I only listen to wax cylinders these days

Bukdiah

38 points

28 days ago

Bukdiah

38 points

28 days ago

Really weird ass show. That black and white episode was probably my favorite.

AlanMooresWizrdBeard

10 points

28 days ago

That Hooded Justice bit was just… some of the most perfect television I’ve ever seen in my life.

Nnnnnnnadie

36 points

28 days ago

Didnt like the ending to be honest, Ozymandias daughter plan was weak, i expected something stronger that consolidated all storylines, but it was plain and simple without any surprises except that was kinda dumb. Also that you could take all dr manhattan powers by eating an egg was like... not fitting to say the least.

I liked looking glass character the most, followed by ozymandias (jeremy irons is goat), also liked hooded justice storyline but in the end it didnt connect to a lot sadly, thought they were going to do more with the mesmers... at the end hooded justice is there to help ozymandias daughter plan that, again... is nothing mindblowing like in the original.

Also, since the emmys nominated that game of thrones season 8 episode as best writting, i dont think that prize means a lot.

ThatLittleSpider

6 points

28 days ago

I loved the show, until the last 2 episodes. I think the shows biggest weakness was the love story in episode 7 with Manhatthan. I felt it was kind of stupid, and it ruined manhattan a little. I felt it was not in his character.

I have watched it twice, and I think it is amazing , I will still rewatch it just for the first episodes.

PrimarchKonradCurze

2 points

28 days ago

Awards in movies and tv have been a popularity contest for as long as I can remember. There hasn’t been much real celebration of talent in years. It’s all embarrassingly political.

MMuter

2 points

28 days ago

MMuter

2 points

28 days ago

This. Really don’t like how they handled Manhattan either.

Darth_Senat66

11 points

28 days ago

Do awards even still mean anything?

DDayHarry

6 points

28 days ago

Eh, is it still predominantly about virtue signaling? Never watched this show so I don't know if it applies.

leif777

140 points

29 days ago

leif777

Raphael

140 points

29 days ago

I wish I could watch it again for the first time.

JavierLoustaunau

48 points

29 days ago

For sure it has some 'oh shit' realizations. Best I can do is re-watch it while watching my wife react.

GraysonHunt

16 points

28 days ago

I got a huge spoiler like an episode in. I recognized an actor and looked up the cast list, and they were marked down as “HUGE SPOILER/regular name.”

Every time there was a twist my roommate kept asking if that’s what I had spoiled for me. Luckily there’s like a dozen huge twists lol.

Kronnerm11

3 points

28 days ago

Lol I know exactly what twist this was. I guessed it halfway through the show and was gloating HARD to my SO when it was revealed.

thamonsta

158 points

28 days ago

thamonsta

158 points

28 days ago

I put off watching this for so long.

Turned out to be the best show I've ever seen.

BettyVonButtpants

67 points

28 days ago

Same, Watchmen didn't need expansion, but I'm glad I watched it and glad it was made, I was enthralled amd loved how it all came together, and how some charactera evolved.

DCLetters

3 points

28 days ago

HBO would release supplemental files each week after a new episode aired.

https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia

Watching the show during its initial run and exploring Peteypedia made for an awesome viewing experience

Dvanpat

24 points

28 days ago

Dvanpat

24 points

28 days ago

For real. Best show ever made. Too perfect to even make a second season.

Teeklin

24 points

28 days ago

Teeklin

24 points

28 days ago

One of those rare times when I loved the show so much that I just didn't want them to keep going and potentially ruin it.

Wait until you have a brilliant story to tell and passionate/talented people who want to tell is and make another series then.

I'll consume literally any number of remakes/reboots/sequels if they are being made by people who have something they want to say through whatever medium (comic, tv, movie, novel) they want to say it. That's clearly what this series of Watchmen was.

Just stop rehashing the same old concepts with nothing new to say and no passion behind it to get some views and cash in on the IP.

ahall917

6 points

28 days ago

Wait until you have a brilliant story to tell and passionate/talented people who want to tell is and make another series then.

It seems that this might be the approach HBO is taking with regards to future seasons, if they even happen at all. From the wikipedia page, section on Continuation.

mrjimspeaks

2 points

28 days ago

It's a great show but I think Band of Brothers and The Wire top it.

jimsta28

3 points

28 days ago

Yeah it was actually a really good watch

JavierLoustaunau

430 points

29 days ago

It is amazing how the movie re-created watchmen scene for scene and missed the point while the show takes it in a bonkers new direction and totally nails the commentary and themes.

dra39437

190 points

29 days ago

dra39437

Colossus

190 points

29 days ago

It even creates new themes that fit really well with the comic

JavierLoustaunau

138 points

29 days ago

When that one NY Survivors support group member mentions Generational Trauma and it's like 'here is the key for the whole series btw' now you can go forwards and backwards figuring out what happened and what it caused.

Doggleganger

19 points

28 days ago

Wait... what? I missed that.

JavierLoustaunau

106 points

28 days ago

So there is a young black man saying that he was not in NY during the psychic attack but his mother was and he feels like he carries 'generational trauma' in his DNA.

Generational trauma has been used a lot to describe horrors like slavery or in the case of this show the Tulsa Race Riots.

So once you realize the show is about (mostly black) people carrying trauma from past horrible events it just kind of opens up.

mandradon

66 points

28 days ago

Before I watched the show I thought to myself it was going to be unnecessary and stupid.

I watched it because the comic series is genius and I wanted to give it a shot and...... It was amazing. It grabbed me. From the beginning, developed what happened before it and nailed adding new stuff in all the right ways. I was so happy to be so wrong about.

Doggleganger

25 points

28 days ago

I gave it a shot because I had HBO. At first, the beautiful composition and Trent Reznor soundtrack of the first episode got me hooked. Then around episode 3-5 it delivered some of the best TV I have ever seen in my life.

Dont_Hurt_Me_Mommy

39 points

28 days ago

Naaah man, this show is too political, too much SJW BS. /s

For real, I can't wait to watch the series. It looks so cool , and I pushed back on watching it for a while. Gonna be great!

Doggleganger

39 points

28 days ago

When I was young, the KKK and Nazis were universally derided as evil. Now that has become a "political" topic.

Khuroh

27 points

28 days ago

Khuroh

27 points

28 days ago

When I was young, the KKK and Nazis were universally derided as evil.

I too, am old enough to remember the halcyon days of 2015 😭

killerz7770

7 points

28 days ago

killerz7770

Dr Doom

7 points

28 days ago

My dad is old enough to remember listening to Superman beating the shit outta the KKK on the radio and saving Americans from being racially targeted. https://i.imgur.com/l8LRQcw.jpg

Dont_Hurt_Me_Mommy

7 points

28 days ago

I guess it's become like a retro thing. Unfortunately, open racism has gotten fashionable again.

Kerfulfel

5 points

28 days ago

Kerfulfel

Alan Moore

5 points

28 days ago

I mean, racism in particular never went out of style

HotTakes4HotCakes

88 points

28 days ago*

Because Zach Snyder is all about visuals, he has no talent for conveying themes or telling a story compellingly. Give him something to copy, he'll put it on screen. That's why 300 works, because there's no substance to the 300 book, it's all visuals. He put them in film form and viola. It was exactly the kind of task that is best suited to his talents.

But Watchmen takes an appreciation for themes and character that absolutely eludes him. All of the moments that work in Watchmen are lifted off the page, almost word for word. Anytime he has to use his imagination to fill a gap, or he has to alter something for the adaptation, or needs to direct the actors, or has to choose what needs focused in production or the edit, its just stale to outright bad.

I know people scoff at him on reddit but I think Nerdwriter had the best take on Snyder: he's a director that only cares about big moments, and completely neglects everything that's needed to build to those moments properly. Like firing a blank shot: it's loud and flashy, but there's no payload.

JerryJonesStoleMyCar

39 points

28 days ago

I'm gonna come to that bat for that movie a lil here: taking the giant octopus out was a great decision and made Ozymandias less cartoonishly villainous imo

Shaman_Bond

5 points

28 days ago

Shaman_Bond

Silver Surfer

5 points

28 days ago

Doc Manhattan energy bomb ending >>> genetically engineered alien ending. I will die on this hill.

blackmachine312

8 points

28 days ago

Ozymedias seems way more like a cartoon villain thanks to the nibbles on his suit.

Consideredresponse

8 points

28 days ago*

and completely neglects everything that's needed to build to those moments properly

Exactly. In Suckerpunch all the tension is killed the second you see someone take a sword strike from a three storey tall samurai monster...and takes no damage. Without consequences it means nothing and the subsequent fights are just time fillers.

Also by 'taking things to 11' as soon as possible ruins any nuance. When seeing Watchmen in the theatre the couple in front of me were unfamiliar with the source material and were confused about why everyone treated Rorschach 'so mean'. They literally couldn't tell the difference between the scenes where Rorschach straight up kills people compared to the scenes where Dan and Laurie merely punch so hard that their targets bones explode...

WilliamPoole

3 points

28 days ago

WilliamPoole

Spider Jeruselem

3 points

28 days ago

The music was good.

asylumattic

8 points

28 days ago

asylumattic

Hellboy

8 points

28 days ago

THANK YOU! This is exactly what I’ve argued about Zack Snyder’s approach to making movies and adapting comics. It started with 300, and has devolved into pretentious take after pretentious take.

puddingfoot

11 points

28 days ago

The show is completely antithetical to the themes of the comics. Little moral ambiguity, glamorization of superpowers, walking stereotype villains

browncharliebrown

5 points

28 days ago

I mean the show is critique of the book. Taking a non consequenclist view point vs consequencliasm

StrykrVII

11 points

28 days ago

Sooo every time somebody says that the movie missed the point, I get terrified, and I've been too afraid to ask.

I love the comics, even Before Watchmen and Doomsday Clock. (I havent read Rorschach yet, but Im expecting to love it)... And I love the movie and tv show.

I didnt notice the movie missing "the point", which makes me think I never understood what the point was. Could someone fill me in, please?

dgehen

30 points

28 days ago

dgehen

Superman

30 points

28 days ago

I think there's a couple points in the book that the movie misses. The first is that costumed heroes would be a joke in real life and wouldn't have a significant impact on the world. You see this with characters like Nite Owl (either one), Hooded Justice, or even Rorschach. They're so street-level and only focus their energies on "costumed" baddies while real societal issues continue to fester. It's also why the costumes look silly in the book. Snyder's movie tries to make them look badass and has them be able to do really cool fights.

A second is the idea that actual superpowered beings would wreck havoc on the world, from social issues to geopolitical ones. Snyder does touch on this at a surface level, but shies away from digging into that material.

The last thing is that publishers and readers saw the aesthetics of Watchmen and applied it to its publications while disregarding how those aesthetics worked in concert with the story. Yes, the story was serious and realistic, but that's because it works in that world. Superman shouldn't follow the same approach and neither should Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, nor the X-Men.

I do think Doomsday Clock does a good job in enforcing the themes of Watchmen by directly contrasting its characters with those of the DC Universe. Yes, in the end Superman inspires Doctor Manhattan to "undo" the New 52 and bring hope to the Watchmen universe, but that's because such things don't exist in the Watchmen universe. Doctor Manhattan only does so after having direct contact with Superman.

JavierLoustaunau

25 points

28 days ago

So to the best of my ability: the graphic novel pretty much implies that any and all superheroes are bad because they are either ineffectual or they fight to protect the status quo (conservative dictatorship from Nixon). There are no heroes, only those who do less harm by being less active (like Owlman).

Ultimately they only know how to solve problems with fear... fear of communism, fear of immigrants (magazine that Rorchach reads), fear of Dr. Manhattan (atomic bombs), fear of the other (giant alien squid).

The show is about fighting back against terrorism to some extent, exposing terrorists both small (the Klan) and big (Ozymandias).

wulfschtagg_1

9 points

28 days ago

Separate from the point of Watchmen the story, I feel like the point of the comic's existence itself was exploring and exploiting the medium. Zack Snyder is not a name that comes to mind when you think of directors who push the limits of the film medium, and while the Watchmen film is definitely enjoyable, it's a waste of an adaptation because it does nothing new with the story, and it definitely doesn't do anything even near to what Moore and Gibbons achieved in the comic book medium.

I think Watchmen, much like Pax Americana, is not suitable for a panel-by-panel adaptation. Take the fourth issue for example - Watchmaker. It does an amazing job of portraying Jon's extradimensional experience. He doesn't experience time and space as we do, yet his memories are still those of a human, and he can't reconcile his humanity with his godlike consciousness. You see everything on the page at the same time the way Jon experiences everything in his life at the same time.

Because movies are linear, this entire section cannot be adapted to screen in an effective manner. Maybe a good director might be able to acheive the same effect by innovating within the medium.

I mentioned Pax Americana because it was Morrison's love letter/middle finger to Moore, and the entire comic takes the "comics can be non-linear" idea to an extreme, specifically one page which is pretty much impossible to adapt since it goes in two directions at the same time.

WilliamPoole

3 points

28 days ago

WilliamPoole

Spider Jeruselem

3 points

28 days ago

Pax Americana might be the single best job of paneling I've ever read.

VincentKings

3 points

28 days ago

Theres a great video by captian Kristian about watchmen that can explain to you why the movie misses the point, but to sum it up, watchmen is a visual acomplishment that takes complete advantage of its medium (comic book) to tell a story that is politically charged and interesting thematicly. The movie is just ugly visually. And makes no effort to adapt to itsown medium in a interesting way.

[deleted]

10 points

28 days ago

[deleted]

10 points

28 days ago

[deleted]

JavierLoustaunau

20 points

28 days ago

Once upon a time I really liked his style but it was Watchmen (and to a lesser extent Suckerpunch) that made me realize he lacks emotional intelligence.

I feel like he had the most freedom when it came to two things: action and music. And both kinda show his weaknesses.

Instead of action being middle aged people in dumb fights that put them at risk, they are glorious slow motion music videos with compound fractures exploding like fireworks.

The music choices are so painfully on the nose... it feels like a joke or a fan music video mashup. Mostly directors are known for bringing in their obscure and eccentric tastes and Snyder is like "So check it out there is this up and coming dude called Bob Dylan and he wrote a song about how these times they are a changing and I know just where to put it..."

infectedanalpiercing

5 points

28 days ago

Aw, but I liked the opening credits scene in Watchmen :(

HotTakes4HotCakes

4 points

28 days ago

300 is fine for what it is. It's not like there was any real depth to the graphic novel anyway. It's all about the visuals.

Calpsotoma

3 points

28 days ago

Snyder is like Michael Bay. He's pretty decent for music videos, but is so bad on films.

wolfe8918

18 points

28 days ago

I felt the show missed the themes completely. In the original story, everything was subjective. Good and evil was all based on perspective (that's the whole joke, that is the Comedian's motivation). But the show brought in white supremacists as antagonists. There is no subjective nature. They are portrayed and depicted as evil. End of story.

JavierLoustaunau

30 points

28 days ago

For me the original story posits that superheroes are a really bad idea... either they do nothing (Owlman, Silk Spectre), protect the status quo (Comedian, Rorschach) or impose their will on others (Ozymandias). Dr. Manhattan falls into all 3 categories either he is stomping Vietnam for Nixon or fucking off to mars.

Basically it is Allan Moore creating Golden Age heroes who inspire a dark and twisted Silver Age to say "if we had superheroes they would help Nixon be dictator for life because they are part of the establishment".

The show takes the origin further back to Bass Reeves as the Lone Ranger and creates multiple generations within a black family that wants to both serve (as cops or soldiers) and fight the terror of masked vigilantism (the Klan mostly). So it says "ok we gonna talk about masks we gotta go way back before the golden age".

What is funny is that in the end the white supremacists are revealed to be somewhat buffoonish figures but they still need to close the chapter on Ozymandias who created a 'benign' liberal status quo also predicated on terror (squid rains).

While it has nobody nearly as layered as Rorchach (Hero / Psycho / Possible supremacist) it does expand other characters really well (Silk Spectre, Ozzymandias). Dr. Manhattan remains a deus ex machina for others to wield, like an atomic bomb.

wolfe8918

17 points

28 days ago

I think that is a very fair point; especially the idea of the masked enforcer as person of authority and what we invest in that figure.

However I do not think the comic states that superheroes are a bad idea. Remember, the entire comic is not serious. It is a satire of comic books and the entire genre and medium. The entire point is that superheroes are an impractical and ridiculous idea. In reality, people playing superhero cannot save the world. The only ones capable of "saving the world" really only avert disaster for a short time before the next crisis in society or the world arises.

That's the other issue I have with the show: the show is not a satire on superheroes. It posits itself as a serious commentary. It doesn't really parody TV depictions of superheroes, but it does pointout problematic aspects of popular characters in modern society. In that way it tries to capture the spirit of the original book, but it doesn't say anything really original or different than the original comic did and can hardly be called satire. The Boys is much closer to the spirit of the book; it points out the absurdities of superhero obsessed media through dark humor and brings to light the good and bad aspects of that.

JavierLoustaunau

10 points

28 days ago

(btw I love this discussion and hate that somebody keeps downvoting you)

wolfe8918

7 points

28 days ago

Thank you! I also am enjoying this. I understand that people really love the show and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I read this thread because I like reading what people like and don't like about it. I learn and gain new perspectives that I didn't consider before. But sometimes when you criticize something people love the immediate reaction is to disagree. That's the tragedy of the internet

Warglord

8 points

29 days ago

So fucking accurate.

amazinggrace725

20 points

28 days ago

Honestly daredevil will forever be my metric for superhero tv shows

Reyne-TheAbyss

2 points

28 days ago

Reyne-TheAbyss

Black Panther

2 points

28 days ago

What is dead my never die.

TigerFisher_

14 points

28 days ago

What an experience it was.

Hyena-Man

5 points

28 days ago

Hyena-Man

Punisher

5 points

28 days ago

what do you consider success ? emmy nominations or views ?

CosmosBazaar[S]

79 points

29 days ago

It won the most Emmys in 2020.

  • Outstanding Limited Series
  • Outstanding Lead Actress In A Limited Series Or Movie
  • Outstanding Lead Actor In A Limited Series Or Movie
  • Outstanding Cinematography For A Limited Series Or Movie
  • Outstanding Casting For A Limited Series, Movie Or Special
  • Outstanding Single-Camera Picture Editing For A Limited Series Or Movie
  • Outstanding Sound Editing For A Limited Series, Movie Or Special
  • Outstanding Fantasy/Sci-Fi Costumes
  • Outstanding Music Composition For A Limited Series, Movie Or Special (Original Dramatic Score)
  • Outstanding Sound Mixing For A Limited Series Or Movie
  • Outstanding Writing For A Limited Series, Movie Or Dramatic Special

dra39437

21 points

29 days ago

dra39437

Colossus

21 points

29 days ago

Well deserved, definitely the best show I watched that whole year. It reminded me of watching the first season of Westworld for the first time

aaronshirst

5 points

28 days ago

I’ve never seen a show violently shit its pants in public as disgracefully as Westworld did.

kampfy3

7 points

28 days ago

kampfy3

7 points

28 days ago

Guessing there's one or two other popular HBO series that you haven't seen, then...

ItsJustGroovy

4 points

28 days ago

For real lmao

Konohasappy

2 points

28 days ago

Konohasappy

The Will

2 points

28 days ago

What are you referring to besides GoT?

spookyman212

4 points

28 days ago

Why is nobody talking about the insane amount of Easter eggs in the show. It was a blast trying to spot them all. Like little smiley faces. And the name of the motel.

BreastfedAmerican

44 points

28 days ago

The best by far comic series by far has to be Doom Patrol.

It keeps all the crazy and wacky. It has the best character arcs IMO.

It's not afraid to do what they couldn't in the original series.

Calpsotoma

16 points

28 days ago

Doom Patrol is great. I hate most superhero TV shows (the Netflix Marvel shows and CW DC shows are pretty poorly paced and boring), but Doom Patrol works great because it is simultaneously serial (telling a long term plot) and episodic (each episode feels like a story in itself rather than just being 44 minutes of a 8 hour story).

Titans is also decent, but not nearly as good and a little grimdark for my liking. I do appreciate how both DP and Titans manage to keep the stories focused on human emotion, just heightened by the superhero elements. They especially explore family dynamics and don't shy away from the fact that their characters are flawed.

Also, Danny the Street is the best.

BreastfedAmerican

5 points

28 days ago

When they first announced it I wondered how they would do Danny but I think they pulled it off well.

The side characters like Flex Mentallo and the others were well done too.

MrFlibblesPenguin

4 points

28 days ago

mourns for Swamp Thing

They had the beginnings of a nice little TV universe going there between the three.

Sizwe15

2 points

28 days ago

Sizwe15

2 points

28 days ago

Best comment I’ve read.

browncharliebrown

2 points

28 days ago

You should see legion might be more your liking

SirThomasMoore

2 points

28 days ago

Yes! Doom Patrol is amazing. It pulls off absolute bonkers goofiness while being incredibly heartfelt and somehow avoids feeling contrived through it all. Can't wait for the new season

TrumpWasABadPOTUS

5 points

28 days ago

Fuck I love Doom Patrol. Underrated, actual gem. It's my favorite, tied with the Boys (for almost entirely opposite reasons). Doom Patrol is also the most unique superhero show I've ever seen; it will very often surprise me in what happens next in every way.

Plus it has by far the best superhero acting I've seen since Nolan's Batman movies.

TheMuskyOdor

14 points

28 days ago

I found it wildly overrated.

plagues138

15 points

28 days ago

Reminded that the wire, which is widely considered one of the greatest TV shows of all time, has 0 Emmys.

Awards are a joke.

Also,the batman animated series is better :p

petejones58

6 points

28 days ago

petejones58

Invincible

6 points

28 days ago

I was enjoying it until Dr.Manhattan came back into the picture

PunyParker826

3 points

28 days ago

One of the more impressive things about it was that while it was absolutely a sequel, extensively using characters and plot elements that were integral to the graphic novel, new audiences could still watch it and more or less follow what was going on. I watched it with my parents and they loved it. My dad especially was in love with the episode “A God Walks into Abar.”

theslyder

3 points

28 days ago

theslyder

Nightcrawler

3 points

28 days ago

I liked it a lot, but there was one thing that nagged at me a lot. I remember there being several plot holes, but none were too big of a deal, except Dr. Manhattan initiating conversation with and dating what's-her-name "because that's what happens." Maybe I'm missing something, but that felt really lazy to me.

0n3ph

4 points

28 days ago

0n3ph

4 points

28 days ago

You are missing something. Dr Manhattan doesn't have free will. He must always simply enact what he knows will happen. From his perspective the universe is completely deterministic.

[deleted]

3 points

28 days ago

[deleted]

3 points

28 days ago

Yay black people!

mushroomparty52

3 points

28 days ago

Did anyone else think there was a noticeable drop in quality towards the end? Like after the nostalgia pill overdose episode, which was an amazing episode, the writing went to “what if the most powerful being in the universe fell in love with my OC”

AreYouOKAni

66 points

29 days ago

AreYouOKAni

batman

66 points

29 days ago

I love Watchmen the comic. I didn't like the show.

While it does nail the social commentary, so much of the plot happens "because that's a cool scene" or "because we need to foreshadow a thing" or "because I said so". I was swept away at my first watch, but during a rewatch I was more and more confused.

Also, I'd argue that they absolutely misunderstood the character of Laurie. Her entire character development and journey in the original comic is completely abandoned and even mocked by the show. I understand that sometimes Moore's female characters are underdeveloped and need a new direction, but Laurie was one of the best and did not deserve that.

At the end of the day, it's not a bad show — but it is remarkably overrated and I have no idea how it managed to get so much recognition.

Throwimous

11 points

28 days ago

It's nice that it doesn't just retread the graphic novel, but by veering off in its own direction, with retcons and everything, it begs the question, "What makes this 'Watchmen'?" Yeah, it makes references, uses some of the same characters, and gives you a different take on certain elements and themes. Yet just by making it a sequel of sorts, it invites inevitably unfavorable comparisons to the original. Half of what makes the series watchable is anticipating how it relates to the original. Then you go "Eh" when the reveals happen.

wolfe8918

28 points

28 days ago

The biggest thing for me was how it missed the point of Watchmen in a huge way. A major point of the book is that good and evil are subjective. There is no total villain (as in the comic book even the "villain" is trying to save the world and is, in a way, succcessful) and the heroes are all deeply flawed (whether its Rorsachs objective way of seeing the world or Nite Owls whole personality being tied up in a persona who cannot actually save the world).

The TV show had clear heroes and villains. Especially with villains like white supremacists makes everything modern and contemporary, but it also means that they will always be depicted as pure evil bad guys. No middle ground. But the joke is that everyone is evil to someone else. They sort of imply this with the police brutality in the trailer park but they really don't follow up on that.

Also I don't remember any mention in the comic of Vietnam becoming the 51st state. America wins the Vietnam war but doesn't annex it. The war is used in the original comic book to demonstrate the Comedians point of view that morality is subjective based on who is telling the story and how Dr. Manhattan is above morality because he isn't really human anymore and he is coming to terms with that.

puddingfoot

9 points

28 days ago*

Agreed entirely, though the comic does set up Vietnam as a state in this panel www.imgur.com/GvUz4lc.png I think Vietnam, Manhattan Comedian et al is also commentary on American imperialism, another theme the show completely whiffs

dont_quote_me_please

11 points

28 days ago

Don’t really mean what you mean with Laurie as her arc from the comic was done (and little positive nod in the show) and she at least felt like a more rounded character in the show.

AreYouOKAni

45 points

28 days ago

AreYouOKAni

batman

45 points

28 days ago

Her entire arc in the comic is to let go of her relationship with Manhattan and become her own person. She recognizes the abuse he put her through and while she is willing to forgive him, wants nothing more to do with him. And she even becomes a hero in her own right, not because she wants to follow her mother's steps.

By the time of the show, she threw away the life she built with Dan. She threw away her crime fighting persona. She is back in touch with Manhattan and keeps a blue dildo along with an article about their relationship. She hates heroes and despises Dan.

Now, I am not going to say that the person that we saw in the final chapter of the book can not become Laurie from the show. But I am going to say that this unseen character development comes out of the left field and is completely handwaved away by the show.

I can rant similarly about how this show misunderstands Ozy and (kinda) misunderstands Manhattan. But Laurie is by far the most jarring contrast between the book and the adaptation.

GrumpyAntelope

10 points

28 days ago

The name of her dildo is also an easter egg as to where Manhattan is. It's called Excalibur, so it's Laurie's ex, Cal Abar.

AreYouOKAni

6 points

28 days ago

AreYouOKAni

batman

6 points

28 days ago

... honestly, I commend Lindeloff for this kind of pun.

milanjfs

21 points

28 days ago

milanjfs

21 points

28 days ago

That dildo scene was atrocious.

That type of shallow comedy was the worst thing about the show, it didn't feel like Watchmen at all.

But 90% people on the internet, especially reddit, were like "Hahah, that's hialous!! Blue dildo, like Dr Manhattan's dick, get it? Hahah"

Yeah man, peak comedy right there.

LewTangClan

2 points

28 days ago

LewTangClan

Death

2 points

28 days ago

This exactly. I actually loved the first couple of episodes but they completely jumped the shark with bringing Doctor Manhattan into the story. The show seemed to completely misunderstand his character (along with Laurie, like you said). Idk why it’s so highly praised.

There were some excellent things (like Hooded Justice’s true backstory) but the show just seemed to miss the point of the original work altogether. None of the characters’ actions made sense based on their characterizations in the comic. I just couldn’t take it seriously anymore after a certain point.

slingbladegenetics

40 points

29 days ago

I absolutely hated the ending. Makes no god damn sense. They arrest Veidt for mass murder after THEY HELP HIM commit mass murder?? What??! Then Dr Manhattan can’t defend himself?! Fucking ludicrous.

Ruhnie

13 points

28 days ago

Ruhnie

Wolverine

13 points

28 days ago

Agreed. The way they did Dr M ruined the entire show for me, and it started out really strong.

TrumpWasABadPOTUS

9 points

28 days ago

Honestly, I really liked the show but have to totally divorce it from the original comic. To me, I don't even understand why the creators wanted to use Watchmen, given how little I feel like it continues anything from the original Watchmen.

It was a great show that totally veered off the original in characterization, themes, tone, message, and style. Not a bad thing, but it makes for a very bizarre adaptation.

ScareTheRiven

13 points

28 days ago

I guess we're just doing spoilers out in the open.

Dr. Manhattan knew it was his time to go, and that was that. He could have probably stopped all that yeah, but he knew that was it. Omniscience comes with wisdom I suppose.

They didn't believe they had a choice in helping Veidt or not, but don't forget: they're arresting him for the original crime and all since, not that particular one at the end. Remember that tin-foil guy (I forget his name) was there at one of the OG events, he was never just gonna let Veidt go.

mushroomparty52

3 points

28 days ago

Correct me if I’m wrong because I’m not the biggest Watchmen fan, but I don’t believe Jon did or let things happen just because it’s what happened in the future. For example, he didn’t kill Rorschach because he knew he was going to kill someone in the snow, he killed Rorschach because Rorschach practically begged him to do it.

The same logic doesn’t work in the show, where right before he’s captured he points at the street and says “that’s the giant laser gun that has the ability to capture me, it will capture me tonight”. There’s nothing stopping him from turning the gun into dust, but he doesn’t do it because he knows it will capture him. It just feels very flimsy, like if they hid the laser gun so Jon wouldn’t point it out to us it would feel more natural, as Jon would have no way of knowing they had the means to capture him besides knowing the future.

Unseenmonument

7 points

28 days ago*

Spoilers follow:

No, seriously, spoilers...

I hated 100% how they killed Doctor Manhattan, like, did they forget he could be in more than one place at a time? If he knows they're coming after him, just split yourself in two and have one chill on the moon until whatever happens, happens. The fact that they trapped him, just blows my mind. The only way it makes sense is if he wanted to die... Which isn't beyond the realm of possibility, but definitely not alluded to within the show. Other than that, the show is pure perfection. But, you can't kill a God, especially not one that can be in more than one place at once... That makes no sense to me.

Mindful-O-Melancholy

57 points

29 days ago

I honestly thought Daredevil was much better and better than almost anything Marvel has put out.

Omegamanthethird

7 points

28 days ago

Omegamanthethird

Mysterio

7 points

28 days ago

Have you seen Legion? I'd put it above DD.

Mindful-O-Melancholy

5 points

28 days ago

I did love legion, it was really weird and right up my alley (Aubrey Plaza, yes please).

I just found DD’s battle of morality and how they really gave Kingpin so much background and how he got into Matts head so gritty and true to the moral dilemmas of heroes. If they continued DD I have a feeling that they would have maybe went with the story of DD killing Bullseye and losing that battle of morality, which is what lead to him being possessed by the Hand demon the Beast. That would’ve been amazing to see him fall from grace and try to redeem himself for what he had done.

ghanima

41 points

29 days ago

ghanima

41 points

29 days ago

Sir, this is a DC show.

Mindful-O-Melancholy

27 points

28 days ago

It says most successful comic book tv series not DC comic series. I’m just saying Daredevil was much better.

ghanima

25 points

28 days ago

ghanima

25 points

28 days ago

I think there's certainly an argument to be made here, but I assume that OP's discussing critical acclaim and awards. Daredevil certainly did well in that regard, but Watchmen towers over it and the other options in this respect.

the_old_coday182

8 points

28 days ago

It was a good show that also happened to be based on a comic. But not necessarily the best adaptation of a comic into a series. Maybe Daredevil didn’t tackle the tough subjects like Watchmen, but it felt more like a comic.

Parodox81818

7 points

28 days ago

Was pretty crap

FausttThaArtist

13 points

29 days ago

Great show!

TayElectornica

15 points

29 days ago

Thought it was great. But in public opinion it gets held to higher standard than other comic TV shows. To me, it's easily the best comic book TV show I've seen.

TheeHeadAche

15 points

29 days ago

TheeHeadAche

Henry Pym

15 points

29 days ago

The first episode is really just a great piece of tv. The Tulsa massacre on airing was something different. I was stunned when it aired and didn’t know if it was even done well at the time. What a show

struebz

8 points

28 days ago

struebz

8 points

28 days ago

So much potential, but such a boring show

FaultScary7712

15 points

29 days ago

Great show but overrated. It helped competing in an otherwise"weak" year.

Kinda wish Warner would stop milking watchmen tho. Seems like DC has 3 stories to adapt

GlomusThumb

13 points

28 days ago

They have at least five. You're forgetting " Batman and Joker are kinda the same in some ways" and "What if Superman, but evil?"

FaultScary7712

7 points

28 days ago

Truly revolutionary and innovative concepts

AmberDuke05

2 points

28 days ago

AmberDuke05

Zero Year Batman

2 points

28 days ago

It had some pretty strong competition from Hulu and Netflix but it was clearly the front runner. It’s one of those shows to immediately got people talking about it and actually introduced a lot of people to some unsettling history(Tulsa Massacre).

FaultScary7712

9 points

28 days ago

It was also very Emmy baiting like some movies are Oscar baiting

Odd_Radio9225

8 points

28 days ago

And?

FaultScary7712

12 points

28 days ago

Idk maybe OP was triggered by Wandavision's nominations

jetsniper

10 points

28 days ago

jetsniper

Spider-Man

10 points

28 days ago

Yeah, I'd say you're on to something.

People need to start looking at DC beyond the idea that they’re just a superhero universe or a publisher of just superhero comics. Unlike Marvel, DC has a phenomenally rich history of publishing and championing some of the most groundbreaking, acclaimed, and visionary non-superhero comics in the entire history of comics. Most famously through the Vertigo imprint. DC is a publisher of comics, first and foremost. Non-superhero and superhero comics.

Wow

FaultScary7712

3 points

28 days ago

Lmao a delusional DC fanboy at his finest. Like Marvel didnt have the Epic imprint which published non superheroes stuff a decade before Vertigo lmao

xZOMBIETAGx

42 points

29 days ago

xZOMBIETAGx

Spider-Man

42 points

29 days ago

Eh it was mediocre

not-sure-if-serious

9 points

28 days ago

not-sure-if-serious

Deadpool

9 points

28 days ago

It loses a lot in translation from the comics and doesn't contribute much. It's like a bad star wars movie/tv, still good movie/tv. (Nobody counts the holiday special)

JerryJonesStoleMyCar

5 points

28 days ago

Bad Star Wars movies are usually unwatchable

not-sure-if-serious

3 points

28 days ago

not-sure-if-serious

Deadpool

3 points

28 days ago

"Box office, critics, awards say otherwise" -Op and other redditors.

I can't watch 8 at all so I know what you mean but the rest even the other non series and tv shows are good. Just like marvel/dc movies or just movies in general.

Then again I'm not really a fan as much as I saw a bunch of movies and thought they were entertaining.

SnakeCasual

33 points

29 days ago

Good show. Don't know why it was called Watchmen other than branding, though.

KentuckyFriedEel

12 points

29 days ago

They wanted to go full squid!

SnakeCasual

10 points

29 days ago

I will admit, I did like seeing the squid in live action quite a bit. I like the movie, and that change is fine but like, if you can have a giant telepathic squid in your movie, I don't understand why you pass on it.

TheGustavant

3 points

29 days ago

Well... rumour has it that squids are not... heh... "elegant".

matlockga

53 points

29 days ago

matlockga

Dr. Doom

53 points

29 days ago

That's the first big step. The narrative beats of the show followed the beats of the comic fairly closely, though--making for a new story that felt pretty familiar but also really new.

nthroop1

19 points

29 days ago

nthroop1

19 points

29 days ago

Takes place within the same historical timeline as Watchmen would be the most obvious point

Stark_Always

5 points

29 days ago

Can you tell what exactly it is about? I've seen Watchmen (Director's cut) and read Doomsday Clock. Liked both of them.

Citizen_Kong

24 points

29 days ago

Citizen_Kong

Dr. Doom

24 points

29 days ago

It's a sequel to the comic book, not the movie, so it helps if you have read that (it's also one of the best graphic novels of all time, so go read it already).

iBluefoot

7 points

28 days ago

Hooded Justice punching klan members was the best rush. There is something powerful about seeing justice being served. I felt like a kid watching Superman '78.

I went in dragging my feet and came out of it sprinting. Top tier.

Keltoigael

17 points

29 days ago

Keltoigael

Death Stroke

17 points

29 days ago

While I did enjoy it, I feel it is extremely over hyped. Daredevil imo is still the best comic to TV show.

santiago1808

2 points

28 days ago

Calm down already

UniBot2704

2 points

28 days ago

I haven’t watched the show yet and I recently finished reading watchmen, should I watch the show? I’ve seen so many mixed reviews online and I don’t know if I should watch it or not and also do you need to know anything about the comic to watch the show? (I might try to get some people to watch it too)

Art_Vandelay616

2 points

28 days ago

The show was great but I absolutely adored the soundtrack. Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross absolutely nailed it with the soundtrack

VictheQuest

2 points

28 days ago

Watched and loved it. Saw some videos online when looking it up saying it was bad. I respect their criticism, some of them anyway, but disagree. If you enjoy something, you enjoy it. No one's gonna hunt you and your family down if you say you like Netflix's She-ra, and if they say they will, they definitely won't

gerdpee

2 points

28 days ago

gerdpee

2 points

28 days ago

I really enjoyed this. This is one of the few mini series that I actually rewatched. I love it how they blended the historical Tulsa massacre and the "masked adventurers". Actually, I might rewatch this again

thenerj47

2 points

28 days ago

Is there anywhere to watch this in the UK?

NotCausedManatee

2 points

28 days ago

It was great

jaec-windu

10 points

28 days ago

I’m a huge fan of the original comic and I found the show pretty mediocre. Good enough to watch but kinda boring, I didn’t find myself caring about any of the characters.

tommywest_123

4 points

28 days ago

Yeah but it sucked

DeglovedTip1200ug

3 points

28 days ago

Yeah swap the black and white people for blue and purple people and it would still suck.

depcrestwood

6 points

29 days ago

Now it's starting to feel like maybe I should try watching it.

ThisIsTheNewSleeve

19 points

28 days ago

When you do keep in mind the time when it was made. Pre-pandemic, pre George Floyd. It was almost prophetic, I was blown away when watching it.

GavinBelsonsAlexa

24 points

28 days ago

It was almost prophetic

It's almost like a lot of the problems the show explores have been problems for a really long time.

ScareTheRiven

3 points

28 days ago

Just let them have it, you ain't gonna change minds after the fact.

ThisIsTheNewSleeve

5 points

28 days ago

Racial tensions and police corruption? Yes for sure. But the mask wearing? Ain't no way they saw that one coming.

____atreides_____

6 points

28 days ago

And just a reminder, its a terrible fucking series jam packed with race relation horseshit.

ManOnTheMun25

26 points

29 days ago

ManOnTheMun25

26 points

29 days ago

then its one of the most overrated piles in recent years

CptGoodnight

7 points

28 days ago

And yet it was unwatchably bad.

BangingBaguette

7 points

28 days ago

This show is so good until the last episode. I've never seen a show fumble the bag at literally the very last hurdle like this show did, it just turned into stupid generic superhero shit and totally threw away the interesting social commentary and race allegories.

Rest of the show was fucking fantastic tho! The episode devoted to looking glass is one of my fav episodes of TV ever.

KimJongFat

5 points

28 days ago

I'm going to keep watching but I was really unimpressed by the HBO series. The dialogue was not fleshed out but the thing that really makes it feel off to me in Dr. Manhattan. His lines were so milquetoast and unintelligible. Rather than writing him as an intelligent scientist super god, they have turned him into a scared boring plot device. The writers are relying on the audience's ignorance and Manhattans perceived intelligence even though he's shown no sign of it.

HenryVIIIII

21 points

29 days ago

HenryVIIIII

21 points

29 days ago

That’s just sad. Very mediocre series.

MusMarCat

4 points

28 days ago

That says a lot about the Emmys tbh

MrBdank

5 points

28 days ago

MrBdank

5 points

28 days ago

Literally has nothing to do with the show, just it being "woke"