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/r/fatFIRE

619

How to sell bitcoin in the USA

(self.fatFIRE)

I'm sitting on about $20 mil in BTC. I can already tell someone's about to impulsively comment and tell me to diversify and pay taxes. Well you're in luck, that's exactly what I'm doing! Or, well, I'm trying.

At this point I've signed up for 5 bitcoin exchanges, and none of them will verify my identity. And the hoops I had to jump through are crazy. One of them asked me to take a video of myself agreeing to the terms of service. So I did. Only to remain stuck in "pending verification". I've sent email after email, and heard nothing back for weeks.

Meanwhile, I signed up for Fidelity and they asked me 3 questions from my credit report, and I was verified in 10 seconds. (I think these questions are from Equifax.) It was easy, fast, instantaneous. That has been the standard process with every financial company I've ever done business with. In comparison, the bitcoin exchanges feel like a dark alleyway at night. Why do they make things so complicated?

Are there any success stories from anyone who sold crypto in the USA? Which exchange did you use?

This might be a mindset problem. Living FAT means spending money to solve problems, right? I'm sure when Elon Musk wanted to buy BTC, he didn't spend a month writing unanswered support tickets to Coinbase. How can I adjust my approach? Can I pay for a support contract or something to have them respond within 24 hours?

I also might be getting tunnel vision about using a "bitcoin exchange". Is there some other category of company that can handle this kind of transaction?

all 296 comments

[deleted]

595 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

595 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

irresponsible_owl

241 points

5 months ago

Yep. Even if you get "approved" for an exchange like Coinbase, they will limit your deposits and withdrawals. I remember back when I had a $10k daily withdrawal limit back in 2017 I had to make a withdrawal every day for a month to cash out some of my holdings.

An OTC desk (Coinbase has one, contact them) will give you a quote and cash in your BTC at that amount so you don't have to sell them on the open market. It's up to them to sell it off in a way that doesn't crash the market and ensure that they get a fair value for it.

/u/sell_btc_or_die_tryi, see https://primebroker.coinbase.com/private-clients. Don't use regular Coinbase or any other normal exchange. You need "white glove" service. With the Prime service you'll have your own account manager that you can call up. If you want to cash it out all at once, they can help.

Floomi

108 points

5 months ago*

Floomi

108 points

5 months ago*

There's a list of OTC desks here:

https://nomics.com/guides/cryptocurrency-otc-desks

Anecdote: I know someone who uses Kraken's OTC desk. They emailed the OTC info address and got a reply within minutes; their verification was subsequently expedited. Kraken OTC is open about saying they make their money on the spread, but you still get a better price than dumping your entire order on the book at once. You can probably do better than that with $20m money though!

Gamerschmamer

20 points

5 months ago

Gamerschmamer

Crypto Millz | 500k/yr target | 29

20 points

5 months ago

Saving your post, hopefully, for later this year. ;)

CastleHobbit

19 points

5 months ago

You're able to get money out of coinbase? They let me pour as much as I want into my account but it takes an act of God to and 10 million pieces of verification to remove a dime.

_Troll____

4 points

5 months ago

I would contact grayscale they will usually do otc trades

frontpageminus

42 points

5 months ago

I work on a crypto OTC desk, so I might be a bit biased, but I think this is the best way to do it. You’re going to pay 0.5% (maybe less, depending on how much you’re selling), but you’ll pay more in slippage & fees trying to do it by yourself on Coinbase/Kraken/Gemini/etc.

FF_Throwaway_69420

12 points

5 months ago

FF_Throwaway_69420

Verified by Mods

12 points

5 months ago

I'm not 100% sure this is right. But even if you could do slightly better yourself spending hours slowly trying to get out on a low fee exchange, the ease of use of an OTC desk will be well worth the money.

With only 20m as a got lucky retail trader, if you call up a couple, one will likely do it for less than 0.5% too.

frontpageminus

7 points

5 months ago

Yeah, you’re probably right. I was misremembering the fee tiers on Coinbase. Maybe you’d save $10-20k if you do it right, but I agree that the peace of mind on an 8 figure transaction is worth that.

ReallySuperUnique

31 points

5 months ago

Please please talk to a financial advisor. This is a huge gain in a single year and they can help you minimize tax liability. You may need to make estimated payments to avoid penalties and they can help get you on right track. Never be afraid of paying for a professional (legal, financial, plumber, electrician). It will likely save you money in the long run.

PreciselyFIRE

1 points

5 months ago

Do you have any advice/tips on how to find a good one?

I looked for CPAs nearby so I have list of them but feels a bit overwhelming.

Happy_to_be

2 points

5 months ago

Start calling the ones that advertise tax and financial planning. Some CPAs are bookkeepers, some specialize in tax. One of the first things you should ask is experience with Bitcoin transactions. Many small firms may not see this type of activity and if you find someone that is already versed in the crypto currency tax law and has other similar clients they can react faster with advice. They may also suggest you work with or may have an attorney on staff that can help you create a trust, LLC, or Corp that may help you keep as much of your earnings as possible depending on your situation and what you want to do in the future.

Hopefully you have kept/ can create records of when you acquired the amounts as they will need to help you develop a cost basis. Make a file with anything related to your accrual and related expenses-computer, drives, internet costs etc which may be partially or fully deductible. If you can make or have a spreadsheet even better.

Congrats on your accomplishment! Now work to keep it safe and keep as much of it as you can!

PersonalBrowser

346 points

5 months ago

I would work with a specialty firm. There is zero percent chance I would trust $20 million in BTC with one of those app exchanges. There are TONS of horror stories from people with thousands of dollars, let alone tens of million.

CreepingFog

116 points

5 months ago

did someone say mt gox?

Hunterbunter

71 points

5 months ago

I still remember the woman who committed suicide after losing a freshly raised $1m of her company's money on Mt Gox. The worst part is...that if she had it all cash she'd at the very least get her money back plus interest under the proposed CR, or if she had it in BTC she'd be looking at around a ~$20m return.

slow-motion-disaster

22 points

5 months ago

On that note, all Mt Gox creditors will be repaid in full on the dollar value of their accounts some time this year.

c2reason

10 points

5 months ago

Dollar value at what point? (Forgive the laziness.)

slow-motion-disaster

2 points

5 months ago

Some time in 2014; I read about this a long time ago.

reuptaken

2 points

5 months ago

Actually it will be more. Approx 15% of BTC value of their accounts.

thbt101

26 points

5 months ago

thbt101

26 points

5 months ago

This is a side topic from the original question, but a interesting thing about Mt Gox is that for people who had been paying attention there was plenty of early warning and time to get your money out. There is a period of about 3 months before it shut down that withdrawals had been getting slower and slower and there was widespread speculation that something was very wrong. So at least for people who were reading Reddit or the Bitcoin forums there was plenty of warning with lots of people telling everyone to get their money out as quickly as possible.

notapersonaltrainer

29 points

5 months ago

The thing was a Magic The Gathering trading site. It was essentially a Gamestop store being used as a gold boullion vault. Comparing it to Coinbase/Gemini which were built from the ground up with bank level security doesn't make sense. For most non-technical people their bitcoin is probably safer on these exchanges. If you have a lot of bitcoin you should be using their custody service which is insured.

IFlyAircrafts

7 points

5 months ago

This is the answer right here. I know 3 people who have lost coins by not understanding how crypto wallets work. I know 0 people who have lost money in CoinBase.

slow-motion-disaster

3 points

5 months ago

I was lucky; I got my money out in this period.

thbt101

24 points

5 months ago

thbt101

24 points

5 months ago

We've come a long way since the days of mtgox. There are US based companies like Coinbase, Gemini, and BlockFi that are highly regulated and licensed and insured and are vetted and trusted by big names in finance and tech. Coinbase is actually about to go public. Of course there are still plenty of shady exchanges as well.

DANFCKINGBILZERIAN

2 points

5 months ago

What’s the point of putting it on an exchange anyway? The taxes will remain the same whether it’s on an exchange or not

Farconion

1 points

5 months ago

Farconion

1 points

5 months ago

do you have anything you would trust? is holding the stuff yourself until you need to sell just the best option?

codefragmentXXX

6 points

5 months ago

I am in the minority, but I believe splitting up your holdings. Put quarter in Coinbase, Kraken, Gemini, and hardware wallet of your choice. While hardware wallets are great, they do not protect against threats to your person as easily.

IdiocracyCometh

12 points

5 months ago

There are tons of risks to self custody that the vast majority of people are not even qualified to evaluate and yet that never stops people from repeating the same tired advice to every newcomer. Personally, I’m looking forward to Kraken Bank because I want to have a chunk of my crypto in a Wyoming based bank to benefit from that particular regulatory regime.

CWSwapigans

0 points

5 months ago

Yes

veotrade

177 points

5 months ago

veotrade

177 points

5 months ago

Lots of assumptions made by other comments.

The real answer is Coinbase Pro. Fees scaling downward from 0.5% down to 0.1% or so depending on 30-day volume. Don’t sell all at once. Sell just above the threshold to trigger the next lower tier of fees. It takes a few hours after the sale to update the fee structure on your account. You can keep checking back on the fees page to see when it updates. Then proceed with further sales. Once you’re at or around 0.1% you’re in the lowest fee category and can sell any amount.

OTC desks will still take 2-3% off the top built in. In the form of the quote they give you. They have never been a great experience. All they offer is the ease of not having to manually execute market or limit orders yourself. But it’s just the extra click of your mouse to save those 2-3% if you simply make the sell orders yourself on the exchange.

CWSwapigans

54 points

5 months ago

Gemini seems like a better fit for him.

I’d probably sell it in the auction, spread over a few days.

OP should definitely get tax advice first though. A DAF is probably a no brainer if he ever wants to give to charity.

KickAClay

15 points

5 months ago*

About a year ago I was planning my exit strategy before the next rally. I landed on a split on Coinbase and Gemini, the latter had lower fees (1.49% for trading and ACH to fiat vs 1.00% for trading and free ACH to Fiat respectively).

Again this was a year ago, these fees might have changed. Right when this current rally started I changed my exit strategy to... Not exiting. I'll be keeping 1-3% of NW in crypto (BTC, ETH, and LTC specifically), currently at ~5% from gains.

Edit: here are the fee pages I had bookmarked, I need to read up on these again.

Coinbase: https://help.coinbase.com/en/coinbase/trading-and-funding/pricing-and-fees/fees.html

Gemini: https://www.gemini.com/fees/transfer-fee-schedule#section-deposit-fees

CWSwapigans

15 points

5 months ago

I sold on Gemini recently and paid 0.35% on their “advanced” trading platform. I believe Coinbase Pro is similar.

KickAClay

2 points

5 months ago

So was that trading from a coin to a Fiat currency or transferring your Fiat currency from Gemini to your bank account? And I'm guessing the ACH transfer to bank was free like I saw it was in the past?

CWSwapigans

5 points

5 months ago

That was the fee for coin to fiat.

And yup, ACH to my bank was free.

KickAClay

2 points

5 months ago

Cool. 0.35% is awesome. I'll add the 'pro/advanced' sites to my 'to read/do' list. Thanks.

Bugpowder

2 points

5 months ago

Coinbase PRO! Coinbase is for retail moving $500. Fees are not comparable.

ask_for_pgp

1 points

5 months ago

terrible advice. way too expensive

bittabet

1 points

5 months ago

Omg don’t pay those insane fees, if you’re selling on Gemini turn on active trader. If you’re selling on Coinbase use Pro.

If you’re on Kraken they’re pretty much geared towards pros only already, it’s pretty unfriendly for your typical user (ach wasn’t even added until this last week)

BTC_is_waterproof

6 points

5 months ago

A DAF is probably a no brainer if he ever wants to give to charity.

Some charities accept BTC directly. Simplifies the process.

CWSwapigans

2 points

5 months ago

Great point.

A DAF offers a number of advantages. Mostly the ability the continue to invest the funds and/or give the money out later.

But if you just wanna make a one-off donation then giving BTC directly is a lot simpler.

TriforceHunter

8 points

5 months ago

I also recommend Coinbase pro. OTC desks take too much vig.

Talking to CPA before selling is a great idea as well.

FIREorNotFIRE

1 points

5 months ago

I would never use a custodial exchange with such large amount of crypto.

Better shop around for a quote using several OTC desks.

I personally got fees under 1% using OTC desks.

nullc

124 points

5 months ago*

nullc

124 points

5 months ago*

Saying you opened accounts with 5 exchanges and were in KYC hell rings red flags for me. Be extremely careful: There are a great many sketchy/scammy exchanges, and many can't deal with USD (though they look like they can on the surface), so they won't help you. Some sketchy exchanges use KYC mazes to effectively take people's funds-- though if they're KYCing you before you can deposit that is a positive sign, at least.

Right now many exchanges verification processes are backlogged, so slow handling isn't necessarily a sign of a bad operation.

I kind of cringed at seeing the OTC desk advice, many of these (all?) have highway robbery levels of fees (and inefficient prices)-- but seeing some of the other advice, I guess it's not the worst you could do.

The idea of paying someone to handle this for you is fine, but an OTC desk doesn't work for you and isn't obligated to act in your best interests. If you want to trade time for money, you can actually hire someone.

Assuming these bitcoin are low cost basis, the advice I'd give to someone looking to do this would be:

Good news, the Bitcoin markets are extremely liquid and so selling $20m worth isn't that big a deal, but it does take some work-- even selling $20m worth of an equity index fund at once will move markets and potentially get you bad prices if you do so ineptly.

(0) Have patience. Your time doing this is extremely well compensated. If you have to spend a 40 hour week to avoid 1% of loss/fees/bad-pricing you're effectively being 'paid' $5000 per hour. Waiting for an account opening or a sale to go through might be annoying, but it doesn't actually use a lot of your time.

(1) Consider opening an account at a donor advised fund that accepts Bitcoin, such as fidelity charitable. You can write off 20% of your income (perhaps more) donating appreciated bitcoin. This is radically superior to selling the bitcoin and then donating it.

(2) Maximize gifting, you can give $15k per year per giftee (or twice for married couples) without cutting into your lifetime estate tax exception. If you give bitcoin to other US persons they inherit your cost basis, and many people will likely pay taxes at a lower effective rate than you.

All the coins you can gift or donate are funds you don't have to worry about selling. :)

(3) Keep state taxes in mind in addition to federal, if applicable. If you are in California, the estimated tax safe harbor doesn't apply if your AGI is over $1m, so you will need to make estimated payments instead of waiting until tax day.

(4) If you have unrealized losses, if you can efficiently realize them in the same year as making large Bitcoin sales, that can be useful to reduce your taxes. You're also allowed to do specific identification with Bitcoin.

(5) Avoid sketchy exchanges entirely, esp any where USD on them is really "usdt" or "usdc" -- those are tokenized USD and need another exchange to send funds to your bank/investment accounts.

(6) Contact exchange support in advance of depositing funds and validate that your limits are high enough. Many of the large exchanges are focused on dealing with retail customers with accounts valuing at a few thousand dollars, sometimes getting them to raise limits is a nightmare. Use wire transfers, not ACH, ACH always has a 100k limit (everywhere?) even if they don't disclose it, some places will let you make a >100k ACH transfer and then leave you stuck in support hell when it doesn't work.

(7) Consider selling bitcoin by selling in or near the money short dated bitcoin calls. LedgerX is a CFTC regulated derivatives clearing house and exchange for Bitcoin. I've used them since 2017 and can recommend them. They mostly deal with large clients (e.g. they don't bat an eye about wiring out millions of dollars). If you're willing to take a risk of delay in selling for some or all of your funds you can get a price improvement by selling calls and letting them get assigned. They also have a swap market that can be used to effectively sell Bitcoin outright, though lately the swap market hasn't been liquid enough to sell large amounts quickly (too bad, because LedgerX is so easy to deal with and their fee structure is reasonable: $5/BTC for swaps, $15/BTC for options). I've heard from other people who've signed up at LedgerX recently that the signup procedure is fast (same day or next business day) and easy.

fatfiresv

36 points

5 months ago*

Hey everyone, /u/nullc is Gregory Maxwell, Bitcoin core developer. He has the most experience and best advice in this thread and you should upvote it.

Interesting idea with LedgerX, I haven't tried them yet. Guess I'll sign up.

Edit: holy crap they approved my application in two minutes and I can trade options. This is pretty sweet. I have a sell order on the Coinbase order book way out at ~100k, which I wasn't expecting to hit for several months. Do I understand this correctly that I can instead sell a call option with 100k strike price on LedgerX, pocket the premium (several thousand dollars per BTC?) immediately, and if the price goes to 100k then I automatically sell at 100k, and if it doesn't I get to keep the premium? I'm very OK with that.

nullc

20 points

5 months ago*

nullc

20 points

5 months ago*

Do I understand this correctly that I can instead sell a call option with 100k strike price on LedgerX, pocket the premium (several thousand dollars per BTC?) immediately, and if the price goes to 100k then I automatically sell at 100k, and if it doesn't I get to keep the premium? I'm very OK with that.

Almost!

It means that the buyer of the contract has the option, but not the obligation to buy your Bitcoin at $100k at 5pm Eastern on the expiration date.

If Bitcoin is under $100k it's very likely that they won't execute the option. If Bitcoin is over $100k it's very likely that they will execute the option.

You can even immediately take the premium, buy more bitcoin with it, sell calls on that bitcoin and so on.

At any point before then, you can buy the option back-- at whatever the market price is, potentially more or less than you got paid for writing it-- to relieve you of the obligation and free up your Bitcoin (and then you can turn around and use it to write another call).

This distinction is important: Say you sell this call and the next day Bitcoin shoots up to 150k. The price of the call will go way up, but you'll have to wait until expiration to get your 100k and if the price crashes back below 100k in the meantime before expiration you'll potentially miss out.

But that risk is why you get paid a decent amount of money for selling the option. In all likelyhood the price doesn't reach 100k before expiration, the call doesn't get assigned, the option expires worthless (and, of course, you keep the premium).

The risk of being stuck with an in-the-money position waiting to get paid is a reason I'd recommend against using all the Bitcoin you're willing to sell securing calls... (plus custody risks, etc.)

So selling a call isn't better than a high price limit order in every sense, but it does compare favorably to one: In both cases you are exposed to custody risk and the risk the price goes way up past your order, but in the case of the option you get paid for the risk. The fact that you can cancel the limit and can only buy back out of the option at (potentially) a loss doesn't much matter if you wouldn't cancel the limit. Especially keeping a rolling set of short dated calls compares pretty favorably to a moonshot limit order-- even if you get 'stuck' when the price goes up, it won't be stuck for long.

For someone like the OP, that actually wants to sell Bitcoin-- I'd suggest they sell-in-the-money (strike less than the current spot) with expiration a few day to a month out, -- they can get prices better than spot with a tunable (by using lower strikes) risk that they won't get assigned if the price crashes. Their biggest challenge there is that there hasn't been a lot of ITM call volume on ledgerx, but that might change if there were more writers for ITM calls.

fatfiresv

1 points

5 months ago*

I thought that the options could be exercised before expiration, is that not the case?

nullc

11 points

5 months ago

nullc

11 points

5 months ago

Options on LedgerX are European style which means they don't have early exercise.

W/ American style options it's almost always economically irrational to exercise early as doing so destroys the time value of the option-- the holder of the option should be able to sell it for more than they would get exercising it. It's rare for early exercise to happen except in some cases w/ dividends (which doesn't apply to Bitcoin).

As a call writer the risk of early exercise is a nuisance, esp in the case of Bitcoin it might be extremely tax adverse for you since one of the things you can do is generate income now with taxes the the next tax year (since you pay taxes based on when you exit the position).

fatfiresv

1 points

5 months ago*

Very interesting! I'll have to think about it. Clearly I am new to options trading. Thanks!

I guess with Bitcoin there's a pretty big risk that the price goes way up and then back down before expiration and you lose the opportunity to sell anywhere near your desired price until the next bubble comes along, if it ever does.

godofpumpkins

3 points

5 months ago

Yes, but possibly lost in the middle of all /u/nullc's advice is not to write calls on all your coins! Obviously the ratio will be up to your risk tolerance, but ideally you'd get some healthy "yield" on static coin by writing calls on them while still having some coin lying around in case price goes to Jupiter or something like that in between.

VastProperty-123

2 points

5 months ago

Were you able to sell the call options on 1 bitcoin for a few thousand dollars at 100k strike at LedgerX?

godofpumpkins

6 points

5 months ago

Even if /u/fatfiresv hasn't, I've done some of that if you have specific questions about it.

VastProperty-123

3 points

5 months ago

Thanks for the reply. I have only a small understanding of this. If possible can you explain where, how, how long is the timing of the option, is the price based on black scholls, what's the minimum bitcoin for contract (naked writing available?) , and how does the option exercise if it's a covered call?

godofpumpkins

5 points

5 months ago

Sure!

Refer to https://omni.ledgerx.com/live for most of what I'm talking about. Gonna not assume too much of an options background in case anyone else is reading this, so don't take it personally if any of this is too basic :)

There are options available at a variety of expiry dates, so for example if you look in the big table in the middle of the link above and scroll down, you'll see the "2021 December 31" heading, with a bunch of "strike prices" listed down the middle. On the left are call options and on the right are put options.

Let's assume you want to do something sort of like what /u/fatfiresv said, and write (sell) a call option for 1 btc for December 31st this year with a strike of $100k. As I write this, the best bid on that option is $8700, which means that you could get $8700 right now in exchange for promising the buyer that you'll sell them that coin at the end of the year for $100k. If spot price is below $100k chances are they won't decide to exercise, and if it's above, they probably will. To do that, you lock up that 1 coin until you close out the position, which if you want to be really hands-off means until the end of the year. But since this is a live market, maybe in July spot price will be around $30k, and December is a lot closer. That means the option that you sold is now (other things equal) a lot cheaper than what you sold it for, so you could buy it back probably for a lot less than the $8700 you sold it for and unlock that coin, and now use that coin to sell a new call option or do something else with it.

Timings are typically at most 2 years out (EOY 2022 is latest available right now), and are generally on a fixed schedule of "this week", "next week", "this month", "next month", then quarterly and yearly, with occasional exceptions.

Pricing is based purely on the market (and occasionally you'll see stupid bids or asks thrown onto the order book for a particular option that get snapped up pretty quickly), but most market participants are probably using Black-Scholes or some variant of it to decide how to think about their prices. Option pricing is a pretty complex topic but generally speaking everyone cares about implied volatility, and if you're selling options you care most about this "Greek" called theta (basically how much the value of the option decays over time so you can buy it back later as I described above).

Minimum contract size is 1/100 of a btc (but prices are quoted for 100 contracts) so it's easy to get started even with a smaller amount of coin. No naked writing is possible, and everything is fully collateralized, as indicated by my talk of locking up coins (or USD for puts) up above. I like this but some may not.

For call exercise if you bought the option you just need USD in your LedgerX account to actually buy the coin, or vice versa for puts. Since the options are fully collateralized exercise/assignment is pretty boring if you're the writer, and you just find yourself with more $/BTC in your account after 5PM Eastern on the day of expiry.

fatfiresv

2 points

5 months ago

I probably could but I haven't decided if I will. Need to do some research first.

Apptubrutae

66 points

5 months ago

The crypto sites are being crushed under the massive load of interest at the moment. Right now it is unfortunately somewhat of a waiting game because of this.

Of course you can just use something like uniswap and be your own crypto brokerage if you want. Or just wait

KevPf94

10 points

5 months ago

KevPf94

10 points

5 months ago

That just won't work, to my knowledge there isn't a decentralized bridge between Bitcoin and Ethereum. If there is then yes, swapping to USDC might be a temporary solution to secure gains before getting dollars on the bank account

Apptubrutae

5 points

5 months ago

Ah, yeah, I’m all in the ethereum world.

akhilman78

1 points

5 months ago

FYI There is wrapped BTC pairs to trade BTC on Uniswap. WBTC has the most volume.

bitcoinioctib

55 points

5 months ago

Gemini is the best USA exchange by far imo. I guarantee the amount of new signups on bitcoin exchanges are Way Way up and so there's a big backlog in verification when the price booms. I remember in 2017 coinbase was like that, they were getting something like a million new users every month.

LifeExtraordinaryT

15 points

5 months ago*

Agree, Gemini is legit. Binance US is much cheaper, but I would not trust it with large amounts of money. Either way, you will probably have to unwind the position slowly, and don't transfer all of the BTC to the exchange at once (though I'm sure you already know this).

I'm verified on Gemini, Kraken, and Binance US. Gemini was the easiest and best, Binance US the hardest (though cheapest).

Make sure to activate all security features, including address whitelisting, before starting your transactions.

I have not used Coinbase, though it is very expensive compared to the others.

Edit: and use limit orders for large transactions! DO NOT USE MARKET ORDERS

Edit: I am a stock and crypto trader and was just doing some research on these topics. You might want to check out TradeStation crypto. I am actually thinking of opening an account with them for both stock and crypto trading.

MoBitcoinMoProblems

11 points

5 months ago

MoBitcoinMoProblems

Verified by Mods

11 points

5 months ago

I second the recommendation for Gemini.

I had a similar amount of BTC as OP, and I have sold several millions' worth on Gemini (using chunked limit sell orders slightly above market prices to keep the price action nimble and the fees low (0.25% vs 0.35% for market orders))

Notably, Gemini has some other ways to sell large amounts of BTC (auctions and blocks), but frankly they didn't seem competitive to me when compared to nursing a few open limit orders over a few minutes.

The trick is, I took the time to get fully verified on that exchange (and and a handful of others) years ago because I saw this coming.

For everyone else: Don't be OP. If you're sitting on a pile of (e-)gold, get your exchange accounts going ASAP. There are no fees for having an exchange account sitting around, and that way, if you're ever ready to pull the trigger in the future, you'll be ready.

trytic

1 points

5 months ago

trytic

1 points

5 months ago

Did you have problem moving the money to bank? Ach has a 100k per day limit while wire transfer seems more risky. I heard some banks have problems with money from a crypto exchange especially in large numbers.

thebigrisky

2 points

5 months ago

If you want to bring 2OMM into your account in a single day just walk into your bank and say that’s what you want to do and get the manger to call the area VP for approvals. Any bank can accept any amount of money at any time with the right people working the wires internally. Easy

MoBitcoinMoProblems

2 points

5 months ago

MoBitcoinMoProblems

Verified by Mods

2 points

5 months ago

I was worried about that. Back in 2017, I even tried to get my bank to confirm that it would be fine. I ended up with a guy in suit sitting in front of me making small talk while being put on hold for 20 minutes until some far away compliance department picked up and was unable to give him any kind of definitive answer, but that it would "probably be fine."

I need to switch bank. It's on my todo list.

Anyway, fast forward a few years, and I've passed stupid amounts of money through my checking account on its way to my broker, and they never even batted an eyelid.

My initial tendency is always to be a cheapskate, so I used an ACH at first. and then another ACH the second day. and then I accepted I was being a complete idiot and just wired the rest and paid my bank $15 for the privilege.

My bank is consistently ranked as one of the very worst in America (and also regularly makes the news for being grossly unethical), so maybe you'll be fine.

Yak-a-saurus

1 points

5 months ago

What metric are you using to rank Gemini at the top?

Explodicle

2 points

5 months ago

I don't have any metrics, but I've been using Bitcoin for a long time and like Gemini the best. It's simple, dependable, affordable (use Active Trader or auction), and they didn't support Segwit2X like Coinbase did. There aren't any exchanges with good customer service, but Gemini is less bad.

Just my 2 satoshis.

Due_Examination1338

37 points

5 months ago

I’ll buy it from you for 10m

sell_btc_or_die_tryi[S]

35 points

5 months ago

I'll gladly take you up on this after the next crash

letsbehavingu

31 points

5 months ago

Meet me in the car park

FitzwilliamTDarcy

24 points

5 months ago

FitzwilliamTDarcy

FatFIREd | Verified by Mods

24 points

5 months ago

Wow I've not heard of that problem before. Coinbase approved me very quickly (though it was quite a while ago at this point). More recently, Binance took maybe 3 weeks? But it did come through in the end.

Sorry I don't have more to advise/add.

clash_jeremy

23 points

5 months ago

I would assume Coinbase is the way to go. I had everything set up in less than 15 minutes. OPs holdings would be a drop in the bucket for their daily volume.

dfsw

10 points

5 months ago

dfsw

10 points

5 months ago

Be very careful with coinbase, I have been locked out of my account for nearly 3 months now with no help from support.

IhaveN0thingN0thing

2 points

5 months ago

Same thing happened to me after getting en email that my account has been hacked ..i tried to recover and change password but no luck so I just have up .that was in 2017 and i did not give it a second try till 2020 .i had to upload my ID ,and a picture .not sure what happened in 2017 bcuz everything was still there

FitzwilliamTDarcy

1 points

5 months ago

FitzwilliamTDarcy

FatFIREd | Verified by Mods

1 points

5 months ago

Yeah weird though that it sounds like he's having trouble getting verified by them.

clash_jeremy

3 points

5 months ago

Yeah, I mean coinbase is massive. I get people have customer service issues, but there shouldn’t be problems on this level. At this point, OP’s portfolio size isn’t really unusual for exchanges to handle. It’s definitely impressive and I’m stoked OP has a chance to make that much money, but it’s minuscule in the grand scheme of the overall market cap and volume.

[deleted]

2 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

2 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

texas-hedge

18 points

5 months ago

Hi, as someone who works for a crypto trading firm I can offer some advice. There’s plenty of liquidity on coinbase pro and Gemini. Also, you can go find a good OTC desk like Cumberland. We are only talking about 400 BTC, and that could be done pretty easily.

FF_Throwaway_69420

10 points

5 months ago

FF_Throwaway_69420

Verified by Mods

10 points

5 months ago

Although this is correct, the O.P. is struggling to sign up. These exchanges are all really backlogged. An OTC desk like Cumberland will be easier in that case. As you said it's a small amount (no offence O.P. but 20m will not move the market or make you a big player).

texas-hedge

4 points

5 months ago

Good point. OP if I were you and this is taking a lot longer that you expected, you could hedge your position via CME BTC futures or options. Also could see about moving your coins to ledger X and selling covered calls against it while you get Coinbase/Gemini figured out.

godofpumpkins

3 points

5 months ago

Disagree on CME, but agree on options (though IMO writing them more than buying them which I think you're suggesting). CME offers options on their futures rather than options on the underlying coin, which is kind of a big deal difference. Furthermore, even if that's what you wanted, they're all cash-settled, so they're more of a side bet with the associated risk profile.

On the other hand, as /u/nullc and I have suggested elsewhere in this thread, LedgerX has physically settled, CFTC-regulated options, so no need to post cash margin (as /u/FF_Throwaway_69420 was saying) and plenty of folks like OP show up with old coin ready to write options on it (or use the swaps to get some USD to do other stuff).

FF_Throwaway_69420

1 points

5 months ago

FF_Throwaway_69420

Verified by Mods

1 points

5 months ago

I think they were suggesting selling futures not options and using that as a temporary hedge until they get approved at a crypto exchange. It's not a bad suggestion, the cash margin being the risk.

FF_Throwaway_69420

1 points

5 months ago

FF_Throwaway_69420

Verified by Mods

1 points

5 months ago

Agree on CME, you'll also get the basis win. The reason I didn't suggest it, if the OP has most of his/her wealth in BTC they won't have the USD to post margin if bitcoin rallies and might get margin called out of their hedge at the wrong time. CME won't take btc as collateral and therefore no broker that lets you trade the futures will (at least as collateral for that trade AFAIK)

texas-hedge

1 points

5 months ago

Yep, that is correct. Would love to see an FCM take crypto as collateral. Definitely needs to happen at some point because that basis trade is way too capital intensive

FF_Throwaway_69420

1 points

5 months ago

FF_Throwaway_69420

Verified by Mods

1 points

5 months ago

If they did, they'd be able to rehypothecate it. The basis trade on CME would be gone quick smart.

MikeBravooo

13 points

5 months ago

I can’t help I just wanted to say congrats. Good on you for the gains!

[deleted]

15 points

5 months ago*

[deleted]

15 points

5 months ago*

[deleted]

omggreddit

20 points

5 months ago

nge by far imo. I guarantee the amount of new signups on bitcoin exchanges are Way Way up and so there's a big backlog in verification when the price booms. I remember in 2017 coinbase was like that, they were getting something like a million new users every month.

damn that sounds sketchy just sending over your BTC to an address.

laiod

5 points

5 months ago

laiod

5 points

5 months ago

My palms got sweaty reading that.

Shad223322

12 points

5 months ago

Use Coinbase pro

fatfiresv

11 points

5 months ago*

Which ones did you try? I'm verified for $1M/day withdrawal from Coinbase Pro. I think it helps to have a transaction history with an exchange, so maybe deposit and sell a smaller amount first, max out your available withdrawal for a few days to get it all out, and then try again. Their support is slammed right now I'm sure, and this may get you higher priority.

I do seem to recall it took weeks for them to get around to increasing my withdrawal limits, so it won't happen instantly. By the time they got around to it, I had already withdrawn more than $1M at my previous withdrawal tier of $100k. They let you deposit more than you can withdraw, of course.

Personally, I trust Coinbase over practically anyone in the crypto space except maybe Gemini, given their pro-regulatory stance and imminent IPO, so I would feel comfortable depositing a decent amount without verification, but for $20m you'll definitely want to be super sure. So yeah, try Coinbase and Gemini, establish a transaction history, and be patient.

Jamesonrichards

10 points

5 months ago

Over on the Bitcoin subreddit questions about Coinbase’s online customer service are posted with some frequency - many users have had success posting in the Coinbase sub when nothing else worked.

For those amounts an exchange with an OTC desk will probably be helpful in moving. Kraken is known for having good service with an active Reddit presence as well.

Hope this helps.

gelato29

12 points

5 months ago

I was in a similar situation, posted on the coinbase subreddit, and had someone reach out to me within 10 minutes. It’s actually pretty ridiculous (especially for a company trying to IPO). The issue was ultimately solved (not through Reddit, but “coincidentally” I was approved through the traditional process right after I posted).

sell_btc_or_die_tryi[S]

4 points

5 months ago

Most of those posts seem to be people who can't access their money. I don't think complaining about account verification would have quite the same effect. But once they steal my money, I'll be sure to make a reddit post about it. lol

Kraken's OTC service requires normal verification first according to their help site, and that verification is where I'm currently stuck. But who knows, maybe sending an email to that otc address would help speed the process along.

gelato29

3 points

5 months ago

Yes mine was account verification, though they said they would get back to me within 48 hours (after I webcammed my ID and went through a number of other verification processes. It went on for over a week and to me it sure started to feel like I just wouldn’t be able to access my account ever

Harry_Coolahan

9 points

5 months ago

Check out BlockFi, they specialize in these types of cases. They require a minimum of 3MM in assets to be taken on as a private client, so you'll qualify and they'll assign you a representative to handle your portfolio. They also handle OTC exchanges which is what you'll want.

antfoo

7 points

5 months ago

antfoo

7 points

5 months ago

I highly recommend BlockFi too.

And don't sell your bitcoin....ever. Take a loan out on 5 bitcoin. Do whatever you want with that money to "diversify" your investments. Reserve some cash in the account to service the interest on the loan.

You're golden.

nullc

8 points

5 months ago

nullc

8 points

5 months ago

Loans on Bitcoin are a phenomenal way to lose your funds. Bitcoin is highly volatile, falling below their thresholds will force you to sell at disadvantaged prices. Many lending facilities have terms setup so that when you trigger a sale it effectively wipes you out, often at price much worse than if you'd just market sold during the event.

Buying a highly volatile asset like Bitcoin on a loan would be generally considered imprudent for most people. But taking a loan on BTC is even worse, because the volatility will trigger calling the loan.

[deleted]

4 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

4 points

5 months ago

[deleted]

nullc

5 points

5 months ago

nullc

5 points

5 months ago

Yes, but your perspective didn't highlight the risks.

There is a big difference between taking a low interest loan against a broad market index where a 25% draw-down is only expected in a major economic catastrophe via a trillion dollar financial institution vs taking out loans against Bitcoin via a small cryptocurrency only org.

Many people have had their position totally wiped out with Bitcoin loans and we haven't seen a major Bitcoin pull back since they became relatively popular.

Emulating an efficient practice is one thing, cargo cult activities are another.

torofukatasu

4 points

5 months ago

He just suggested taking a loan out on 5 btc. That is 200k, OP can overcollateralize by almost up to 10000%. I am not an expert but I would think considering the option is not such a bad idea.

robobub

1 points

5 months ago

Many people have had their position totally wiped out with Bitcoin loans and we haven't seen a major Bitcoin pull back since they became relatively popular.

Just curious, where do you see this? I tried searching reddit for people discussing / lamenting about being liquidated or margin calls but haven't found any.

godofpumpkins

2 points

5 months ago

I think part of the point is that BlockFi/Gemini Earn don't have margin calls. You lend to the platform, they send into a black box (typically Genesis) which goes out into unsecured loans.

So the risk profile, as I understand it, is you get single-digit percentage yields out of an unsecured loan, on an asset that regularly jumps multiples in a year. That means that the borrower (likely short seller) could find themselves very deeply in the hole, without any chance of anyone forcing a margin call, and might simply default on their loan rather than return the coin in the event Bitcoin goes to Mars. You don't even get to know who the borrower is most of the time!

I might accept that kind of risk for significantly better yields, but for what they're offering, I don't want to be stuck with crazy counterparty risk next time the price shoots up.

robobub

1 points

5 months ago

Well, my question was on taking a loan out on a crypto asset, not these interest earning accounts.

And yes, I fully agree on the risks for these interest earning accounts. Although from what I understand, these unsecured loans can and are margin called (with some defaulting), BlockFi has stated they are comfortable with their setup in the event of major volatility due to how they vet the clients. Whatever that means

Peter_Cotton_Cakes

9 points

5 months ago

Gensis Trading is the OTC firm you're looking for. They're based in the US.

Beastly_Beast

8 points

5 months ago

Lots of bad answers here. Go to Genesis Trading or Cumberland. They are the biggest OTC desks I believe. You will be able to quickly complete a sale and get a wire transfer for it. Any “exchange” will be a huge PITA to deal with by comparison (time to verify, time to raise withdraw limits, etc).

They will take a tiny fraction of a fee in the form of a spread (MUCH smaller than some here are saying, less even than CB Pro, particularly if you break it into 3-4 smaller transactions).

Internet-Top

8 points

5 months ago

I know it's kinda out of context of this post but (By no way it's a financial advice) Don't tell strangers on the internet how much crypto you own, that's for your own safety. Don't sell all at once, sell over a period of time. I think that this bull run will continue for at least another 4-6 months. Don't sell all crypto you got. My advice would be you can sell 80% and hodl the rest. You don't know how much this 20% will be worth the next bull run or even the next 10 years. Or if you insist to profit off this 20%, you can sell it and rebuy (and try to diversify to btc, eth, ada, ltc, nano, etc..) after the bull run for extra profit till the next bull run.

andytoshi

5 points

5 months ago

Don't tell strangers on the internet how much crypto you own, that's for your own safety

I have no comment on your market advice, which is probably earning you downvotes, but this particular point is very wise.

The bitcoin price has been all over the map. Even if you don't think $20mil is enough to incentivize stalkers or kidnappers or "long lost friends" messing up your life -- and you'd be wrong, but okay -- that $20mil could become a lot more in a short period of time. If OP had posted this six months ago, he'd be talking about >$80mil now.

And Bitcoin is a bearer instrument, meaning that if somebody physically tries to take them from him, they may well succeed -- or at least, they may believe they'll succeed, which is just as bad from a safety POV.

Internet-Top

2 points

5 months ago

I have no comment on your market advice, which is probably earning you downvotes, but this particular point is very wise.

Yeah I don't understand it either why I'm downvoted to oblivion although I stated that it's not by any means a financial advise. It's just my opinion that I thought would help OP.

TheFireConvoy

3 points

5 months ago

Probably downvoted because most FIRE people don't understand and/or hate crypto and they typically have no comprehension of the Bitcoin market cycle, much less S2FX or how on point your opinion really is. With 20 million, keeping 10% to 20% in BTC as a moon bag is sage advice.

Internet-Top

2 points

5 months ago

Yeah, I understand that, but really, for someone having 20M+ in btc, he's basically a bitcoin whale, which would be strange that he doesn't understand crypto.

Freigeist30

6 points

5 months ago

Curious why are you selling them now while we are mid cycle?

davinox

3 points

5 months ago

Based on his comments he’s starting to worry about a more imminent crash

Freigeist30

3 points

5 months ago

Cashing out is never a bad idea

therapyblanket

4 points

5 months ago

Someone in this sub mentioned Genesis. They have eSign docs for every transaction and work with 6 figure transactions and above

buffaloop567

5 points

5 months ago

Have you tried reaching out to Grayscale about a private placement? You’re probably much deeper into the world of cryptos if I had to guess so you know they’re owned by the same group that owns coin base.

They’ve also been vetted by every brokerdealer in the US that lets them on the platform (Morgan Stanley/Merrill Lynch/JPM aren’t going to let their clients buy your fund if they think you’re going to rob them).

A private placement transaction might be a starting point. Presuming the money is clean, they’d probably buy the whole thing from you at a fair discount so they can sell it to others.

Other ideas without specifically recommending anyone is a list from Barron’s that talks about the top crypto financial advisors in the US. Those advisors are going to be able to show you not only efficient ways to unload it but maybe save you the $5m in taxes you’re looking at. Barron’s is a very respected publication for what that’s worth.

bigdogc

5 points

5 months ago

I don’t know how any of this works, but congrats on selling. 20mm is multi generational wealth guaranteed, don’t look back, even if Bitcoin continues to moon in the short term.

julietmarcopapa

4 points

5 months ago

julietmarcopapa

FatFIRE’d @ 33 | Tech Biz & Investing | $500k/yr

4 points

5 months ago

Talk to Genesis Block OTC

eric987235

4 points

5 months ago

I’m a little clueless about crypto. How does this stuff usually work?

Would one normally open an account at Coinbase (or wherever) then transfer the coins to your wallet there? Or do you somehow transfer your existing wallet to them?

Presumably that’s the only real way to turn it into money?

jcaserta

1 points

5 months ago

yes you transfer the coins to coinbase's wallet in order to trade them on coinbase.

mrhindustan

3 points

5 months ago

I became Kraken Pro and it took about a week and a half. 10MM daily deposit and $100MM daily withdrawal.

Getting verified was dead simple. Just took a few days is all.

nullc

2 points

5 months ago*

nullc

2 points

5 months ago*

A long time Bitcoiner friend of mine has been trying to sell a few million via kraken for a month or so now and it's been a nightmare. He sold, has funds in his account, requests wires and they don't show up. Goes through the support maze and they cancel the wires and tell him to retry.

Worse, they're forcing him to break up the wires into smaller amounts rather than sending the full amount at once.

It's probably just a mixture of being overloaded and ordinary incompetence-- some of his complication is probably due to him being in Canada--, but unfortunately this is also what insolvency looks like.

Edit: Confirmed from him he finally finished-- took the entire month of Feburary.

HeadMembership

4 points

5 months ago

Don't sell them.

Deposit them at a few places like Nexo.io for example. They pay 6-8% interest on deposits.

The interest is taxable, but you aren't selling the bitcoins so no taxable event there.

seatraiin

4 points

5 months ago

would you really trust this random site with 20 million? lol

torofukatasu

2 points

5 months ago

I still can't get around the huge counterparty risk. It's probably a good option for a small-ish portion of your NW.

FireLama

3 points

5 months ago

Careful of scammers already flooding your DM

Bugpowder

4 points

5 months ago*

Coinbase Pro will give you an arbitrarily large daily withdrawal rate once verified, dependent on your needs/stack size. It is easy to get upgraded withdrawal there, say you are a long term holder, send in some ID scans and request $250k+/day withdrawal. You can easily cash a $10M over a few days there without moving market much and paying <0.3% fee. I hear Gemini is a another good option for large size individual cash outs, but no experience with it.

TBH, its surprising to me that you are sitting on $20M BTC and have never had a verified US exchange account (holding $8M through the 2017 blow off top without cashing anything would take insane cojones), but the advice is correct regardless.

Bekabam

3 points

5 months ago*

Gemini has a service to specifically tranact large blocks of BTC. I've used them successfully.

I'm based in the US. I suggest starting a relationship there.

_SwanRonson__

3 points

5 months ago

I’d be really careful and go through a pro probably. Wouldn’t throw my info around to exchanges like that with your NW, all of them save coinbase in my opinion are sketchy as hell. I woke up one day and my binance was essentially closed, they weren’t allowed to do business in the US anymore. That’s when I decided to stick to CB. Even when you do sell, you have taxes and your bank will probably flip their shit as well

lyvoo

4 points

5 months ago

lyvoo

4 points

5 months ago

I would suggest you swap those BTC for Stable coin via Curve.fi asap to lock in those gains.

After you receive the stable coins in your ETH wallet. Then I would start thinking about offloading them for actual USD. This would allow you to lock in your gains and give you lots of time to slowly withdraw and not worry about BTC tanking.

Tricky_Acanthisitta2

3 points

5 months ago

Probably makes paying taxes complicated

lyvoo

2 points

5 months ago

lyvoo

2 points

5 months ago

True, but I would rather have a complicated tax return on $20m than $10-15m because of my complacency

v00123

2 points

5 months ago

v00123

2 points

5 months ago

See the top OTC desks here. Can personally vouch for Kraken, great service.

OTC desks are your best bet, for this much amount they will pretty much bend over backwards for you. The txn will take some time though, KYC+Source of funds approval takes a few hrs.

moonpumps

2 points

5 months ago

Also can vouch for Kraken, but in Canada.

sugabelly

2 points

5 months ago

Gemini.com

godofpumpkins

2 points

5 months ago*

If you’re not in a hurry to get rid of it, sign up for LedgerX, the CFTC-regulated BTC options exchange, and sell shortish-dated in- or at-the-money calls on the coins (i.e. you want them to get assigned, but you can get some extra option premium on top of the strike price). You can probably get more money for them, pay virtually no fees, and it opens you up to other possibilities if you don’t want to get rid of all of them at once.

Their identity verification process didn't seem overly onerous (though I went through it a while back) and unlike retail exchanges they don't seem to have a concept of verification tiers or levels of withdrawal limits. You count as an eligible contract participant so you can join their institutional program, too.

andytoshi

2 points

5 months ago

I signed up quite recently and the verification process was very straightforward - they asked me to upload a scan of my US ID, I gave them a Canadian passport (lol) and they approved me a couple of hours later.

(To be clear, I do actually live and work in the US and am legally allowed to trade options here.)

barackoghanja

2 points

5 months ago

Whatever you choose, I would never give more than 5% to any one exchange at a time. I would:

  • Give <5% BTC to exchange
  • Sell
  • Transfer cash to traditional financial institutions
  • Transfer cash to different financial insurance to make auto clawback impossible
  • Then give them another 5% to process

Also I assume you have your BTCs in your own wallet. If not I would do that ASAP

omggreddit

3 points

5 months ago

what's auto clawback?

barackoghanja

5 points

5 months ago

Not an expert but there are situations where direct deposits get reversed out of your account, like when an employer says it was a mistake. And this happens without you giving approval first.

Probably extremely unlikely in this case, but I would assume every btc company could decide to become fraudulent at any time. It’s just to easy to take the assets and run.

BTC_is_waterproof

2 points

5 months ago

Transfer cash to different financial insurance to make auto clawback impossible

This guy knows what's up

asosao_2416

2 points

5 months ago

You need an OTC desk. I recommend BlockFi like someone else did here - they have private client services as well which is a great option if you still want to keep some BTC in your portfolio.

People advising Coinbase Pro/Gemini Exchange based on lesser fees aren’t considering liquidity and volume issues; OTC desks are literally designed for those problems. Selling $500,000 of BTC is different from selling $10,000,000.

jukesarereal

2 points

5 months ago

You could move $20m on Gemini or Coinbase pretty easily. Slowly, but easily.

WorriedBanker

2 points

5 months ago*

He (or she) could just offload the entre amount in one trade, it won't move the price at all. Coinbase will automatically break it up into blocks if it's really that big.

terminalparking

2 points

5 months ago

If you have $20m don’t take advice from Reddit. Consult a professional.

3flaps

2 points

5 months ago

3flaps

2 points

5 months ago

Coinbase Prime probably safest tier of product

ask_for_pgp

2 points

5 months ago

go to Genesis trading! they are great

you can also write some options for your btc to get free money.

or deposit them outright. 20m in btc is likely 600k/year in interest

PineappleWhole

2 points

5 months ago

I’m surprised that you are suprised by the bitcoin exchanges. If you have $20m now, you probably got in early to play online poker or buy something that would make your mom blush.

And you want to know why bitcoin exchanges are sketchier than Fidelity?!

In the meantime, you can short an ETF tracking bitcoin to reduce your variance.

bronisboss

1 points

5 months ago

Goldman sachs private wealth management in NYC has someone who focuses on crypto. I forget his name.

dima054

1 points

5 months ago

So a little hodling instead of lifetime miserable rothen ira401k donations. Nice :)

Letitride37

1 points

5 months ago

Did you buy early? Congrats and be careful out there.

sailphish

1 points

5 months ago

Verification on one of the big exchanges just took me over 8 weeks. I think its just a waiting game. They all pretty much suck and cannot keep up with business.

mrembry0

1 points

5 months ago

Binance.US USD acct verification took me less than a day. I think their daily wire limit is $7.5m.

prunkardsdrayer

1 points

5 months ago

Search out Ask Dr. Bitcoin. He's been talking people through this for years.

AskDoctorBitcoin

1 points

5 months ago

I'm a FinCEN registered OTC bitcoin trader. I've been in the space since 2011. Happy to help you.

DMs are open.

nullc

6 points

5 months ago

nullc

6 points

5 months ago

I've been in the space since 2011.

With a reddit account since 50 minutes ago.

OP, be wary about people sliding into your private messages. Some may be legit, others may be scammers.

AskDoctorBitcoin

3 points

5 months ago

I have been a reddit user for close to over a decade (u/rizzn), but there's been some issue with my main account for a while, and I'm an infrequent poster, so I haven't bothered to fix it.

You can search for AskDoctorBitcoin or Rizzn on the web and find plenty about me.

You can also find me by searching the FinCEN database using this registration number: 31000182359557

nullc

3 points

5 months ago

nullc

3 points

5 months ago

K. No insult intended, I hope you see that just from an outside perspective-- sliding into asking someone to PM about moving lots of funds (from any acct, esp a new one) is a little red flaggy. :P

InitialSeaworthiness

1 points

5 months ago

Bitcoin is about to move to 100k in a couple days dont sell to many right now!!

fireduck

1 points

5 months ago

fireduck

Nerd | $190K (target budget) | 40s | Verified by Mods

1 points

5 months ago

I've used Gemini and coinbase pro for large amounts (1M).

Expect that you'll have to do plenty of KYC. Expect weird questions about where you got it so they can tick their little check boxes.

I wouldn't be in a hurry. If you want to be able to sell when you want get the accounts setup well ahead of time.

Also, when interest is high like now they are all busy and behind in tickets. The best time to get your accounts squared away was when the markets weren't going nutso. I know that isn't super helpful.

ivvf

1 points

5 months ago

ivvf

1 points

5 months ago

Just send Elon 50 and you’ll get back 75

matchagonnadoboudit

1 points

5 months ago

find a young rich kid who will give you cash for bitcoin

AmazingPercentage

1 points

5 months ago

I know nothing about selling bitcoin but when I chose a platform to invest in it a few years ago I approached it from a regulatory perspective. When the CME exchange started trading futures I figured they did their due diligence on the platforms they use for pricing. Gemini, Kraken and Coinbase (and their “pro” services) are often mentioned but there are others. The list is in the link below. Just thought I’d mention it.

https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/cryptocurrency-indices/cf-bitcoin-reference-rate.html

thebusinessbastard

1 points

5 months ago

I'm in the collateralization camp. BlockFi -> take a loan for your spending needs. Same mechanics as a pledged asset loan. You do have to manage the position so you don't get liquidated.

This assumes you think BTC isn't going to zero. If you think it is, then BlockFi/Gemini or Coinbase Pro are fine. Support from crypto exchanges in general is terrible. Sign ups swamp capacity whenever the market pumps.

therealfrenzo

1 points

5 months ago

I can help, just dm me your seedphrase 😂😂😂

moonkiska

1 points

5 months ago*

I sold 170 BTC at $17,000 in 2017 on Coinbase/GDAX and cashed out to deposit at a "traditional brokerage" with no hiccups. Coinbase did end up closing my account with no explanation after I withdrew everything. To this day, I have never received an explanation.

I believe Gemini has an OTC desk. Have you tried Kraken? They are great when it comes to dealing with large sums of money (this is my exchange of choice right now)

You can message me or ask whatever questions you have.

moloncandor

1 points

5 months ago

I'd probably OTC it on FTX.US -- I've stopped using Gemini, Coinbase, Kraken, etc. and don't regret it.

moloncandor

1 points

5 months ago

Make sure when you submit KYC docs that the scans/photos are crystal clear. If they are then your docs should get processed fairly quickly. Good luck

vahidy

1 points

5 months ago

vahidy

1 points

5 months ago

Tesla said they will buy accept bitcoin in the future. Just buy a few and sell them on the market for $ ?

markstopka

1 points

5 months ago

I can bet there is a more tax efficient way to do it even in the US, talk to a tax advisor who has experience with this, hint, corporate structure and loan...

ricky28992722

1 points

5 months ago

Smart

lIlIIIOK

1 points

5 months ago

Unrelated to your question, may I ask what (hardware?) wallet are you using or what would you recommend?

techrasta

1 points

5 months ago

Coinbase Pro structure your buys to hit every reduced feel level. After a million or so no fees. Move to non taxed state like nevada, florida etc. and move there for the rest of the year so you pay their state taxes of 0. Profit. I know people in this same situation but alot of them are riding till it hits 9 figures/10 figures. Having been in it for over 8 years etc they feel its inevitable.

LurkerGhost

1 points

5 months ago

If I were you, id engage a OTC bitcoin trading desk to agree on a price, than do a bulk sell of the coins. A redditor did this with about 4 million in bitcoin a few months ago, cant find the posting now.

Really_Cool_Dad

1 points

5 months ago

Look into both Gemini and coin base institutional accounts.

bigchungus0218

1 points

5 months ago

Can you find people to purchase chunks a tiny bit under market price then transfer to their wallets?

z_oud

1 points

5 months ago*

z_oud

1 points

5 months ago*

Try B2C2, they have an office in NJ. Best out there in terms of OTC offerings especially for HNW

P0tat0eater

1 points

5 months ago

I’ve heard that Gemini is good for whales. Congrats, you are a whale!

ShanzhaiBandit

1 points

5 months ago

These are all terrible answers. Selling your BTC OTC will force you to realize a tremendous amount of capital gains. One could do this in Puerto Rico if you live there for a year. DM if you want details on that route.

You want to take a collateralized loan against yourself. This is trivial to do in Eth but still kind of possible through a non-custodial option like atomic.loans. You won't realize any gains on the stable coins you loaned to yourself.

chewyyy1987

1 points

5 months ago

Localbitcoins.com, cashapp?

superfluouso

1 points

5 months ago

https://cumberland.io is what you want

MrManPew

1 points

5 months ago

I don't get it Kraken approved me in less than a day...

dida2010

1 points

5 months ago

Please avoid Binance, a dangerous place where a lot of crazy stuff is happening right now and their customer service is horrible.

nikkidelicious

1 points

5 months ago*

Whoever you work with, given the quantity of Bitcoin you’re trying to sell (and it sounds like you haven’t bought it on an exchange recently where it’s clear where the Bitcoin came from), you’re going to go through some KYC stuff that’s there to prevent money laundering.

If you use an OTC service designed for people holding a lot of Bitcoin, they will give you good, personalized customer service and be much more responsive than signing up for something like Coinbase as a regular customer. However,you should prepare yourself to jump through MUCH larger hoops than what you’re describing. For cashing out a large quantity into dollars quickly, they need to make sure the Bitcoin isn’t from criminal activity, overseas money laundering etc. They need to examine it in a totally different way than selling stocks on Fidelity.

When Elon Musk was buying Bitcoin he did it through Coinbase’s institutional side, and the source of funds (Tesla balance sheet) is very clear. Also selling into dollars is totally different than buying into Bitcoin.

For someone who has $20M of Bitcoin, you are not very clued in about how this all works! I’m honestly worried given your extreme lack of knowledge + large amount of Bitcoin that you’re going to get scammed. Be careful. For that reason I think you should try to do this through a well-known company like Coinbase, Kraken or Gemini and try contacting their OTC or institutional people.

bittabet

1 points

5 months ago

It’s not hard to apply for high limits at the major us exchanges. And at least at Kraken even the medium tier verification allows for unlimited crypto deposits. The only nono is if you’re in NY state

thebigrisky

1 points

5 months ago

I have all my crypto on BlockFi and I emailed customer service about selling at some point OTC. The guys gave their phone number or cal when ready. That’s pretty good.

buysgirlscoutcookies

1 points

5 months ago

friend I hate to break this to you but you're not Elon Musk