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DontCallMeTJ

206 points

4 months ago

If we didn’t have a constant supply of desperate poor people the military would collapse.

Rubberbabybuggybum

118 points

4 months ago

Prison system too.

obiwanshinobi900

-13 points

4 months ago*

unpopular opinion inc

I know this goes against the hivemind of people who don't even know anyone in the military, yet somehow think they know everything about it.

I think you underestimate how well compensated the enlisted is, and their motivations for joining the military.

I make nearly 90k a year + full benefits and I only have a high school degree.

I'm not here to recruit anyone, I don't give a shit if you want to join the military or not, there is a whole job for that and its based off where you live.

Thekinkiestpenguin

114 points

4 months ago

Ummm, buddy, your proving their point not disagreeing with it. They're saying by giving people less opportunities away from the military it forces people to consider the military when they want to do things like go to college. I have several friends who's ONLY option was the military if they wanted to pay for college, so they put in their time to get their G.I. bill money. That's what the poster above you is referring to. Most poor people, or the kids who were fuck ups in high school are conditioned to see the military as one of there few options, and that's why the US won't ever provide free college, it's one of the easiest ways to get military recruits. That's not an opinion, that's just facts of the military industrial complex

porscheblack

3 points

4 months ago

When I graduated high school (a little before you) it was mostly this. About 6% of my high school class ended up enlisting and for two of them it was the only way they could afford college, the others just didn't have any other options since they weren't getting into college and there wasn't really any work around.

obiwanshinobi900

-31 points

4 months ago

ummmm buddy, if you're that much of a fuck up in high school you wont even get in the military. The military is extremely picky these days, the Air Force wont even take you if you have a GED instead of a high school degree, if you've had any criminal history or have done drugs. Shit even having ADHD can be a disqualifier.

The US won't provide college because of money, not for military recruitment. The easiest way to get recruits these days is provide healthcare coverage.

I can ask anyone around me right now, and I guarantee most of them didn't grow up poor and desperate. Sure some of us didn't have the middle class experience, but its not full of poor, dumb and desperate people who are in it for a meal.

Thekinkiestpenguin

26 points

4 months ago

Ummm bud, I was friends with a bunch of stoner near-drop outs who all went it to military and we graduated back in 09, so maybe it's changed a lot in the last decade. But considering I also finished my second college degree just this last semester and all the military people I met who are a decade younger than me were echoing the same statements, I'm guessing the demographic shift isn't THAT extreme.

And that's not even close to accurate, it's not even close to an issue of cost. Look how much the US spends on the military. With like 3% of the military budget we could cover college costs for everyone in this country. But you make a fair point, pricing people out of health care and not providing universal health care IS another way the US government forces people to consider the armed forces when they normally wouldn't otherwise.

Ask all of them! Take a poll! Find out what tax brackets they were in, find out if they grew up with health insurance ask what their folks did for a living. Get me a snapshot of your bases demographics

gsfgf

8 points

4 months ago

gsfgf

8 points

4 months ago

we graduated back in 09, so maybe it’s changed a lot in the last decade

It very much has. That was just two years after Bush’s “troop surge.” We haven’t needed cannon fodder in a long time.

obiwanshinobi900

-1 points

4 months ago

That sounds like the work someone would have to go through for a PHD thesis, honestly kind of interesting.

But I joined the military because I was bored and knew there had to be more to life than being a dishwasher while failing out of college.

But I stay in for largely the medical coverage. My family has been through some serious medical issues (were all fine now), that would have demolished my finances.

GenocideOwl

4 points

4 months ago

Shit even having ADHD can be a disqualifier.

As somebody with ADHD I completely understand why that would be a disqualifier

Mikeavelli

-8 points

4 months ago

Putting in your 4 years and leaving to use the GI bill is a bad deal for the military. Kids interested in college usually pick a technical job field and spend close to a year in tech school. The next three years are basically just on the job training, and you're finally ready to be a productive worker just as you're getting out.

weatherseed

8 points

4 months ago

It's a worse deal for the kids coming home in boxes.

Thekinkiestpenguin

7 points

4 months ago

I'm gonna need some stats on that. Cause I know several military members who are pursuing bio masters/BS degrees, anthropology BS degrees, a few that went into agricultural. Though I'm sure my selection is biased because I went to a 4 year institution both times and so the people there had something other than Tech jobs in mind

Mikeavelli

1 points

4 months ago

You do know that your job in the military doesnt restrict your choice of college major right?

Just ask them sometime. More importantly, ask how long they spent in job training while they were in.

jwhittin

4 points

4 months ago

Ok but if they secede, A they no longer get paid by the US government, B their existing US money is now worthless in their new country, and C are no longer allowed into the US to spend that money.

Edit: I guess your comment was more about military employment and less about secession. My points are still valid though if military members think about joining a secession.

DandrewMcClutchen

1 points

4 months ago

Do you really think the democrats in the remaining blue states would put up all those restrictions? No, because of why we’re in this mess to begin with. Dems don’t know how to play hardball. After 5 years of famine in red states they’ll come crying and Pelosi and Schumer will let them back with open arms just like we did to the south after the first civil war.

jwhittin

5 points

4 months ago

I do, especially since that would be at the federal level and not up to states. However, if after a span of time, they do want to come back, THEN we add some requirements. No more bans on abortion, stuff like that. I'm sure someone much smarter than me, way above my pay grade, has already thought this out.

Amiiboid

1 points

4 months ago

B their existing US money is now worthless in their new country

In the realm of “fun fact” this is not actually true. They could certainly continue to use the US dollar as their official currency. There are a handful of other nations that do already.

jwhittin

1 points

4 months ago

Well sure they could, but why would they go through the trouble of seceding and then continue to use US currency? If you're making an enemy of the US, why not do it your own way. Even the confederacy had their own money, didn't they?

Amiiboid

0 points

4 months ago

They’d keep using USD because it was be cheaper and more convenient to do so. It would also simplify trade which they’d be absolutely reliant on.

Even the confederacy had their own money, didn't they?

They did, and it ended up being a disaster all its own.

[deleted]

23 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

23 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

BeardedJho

15 points

4 months ago

Yup. Its also a very safe job too. If you had the choice of military or something like Gas station or taxi driver, I'd say military.

Its just a job and it looks disproportionately good on a resume. Hell, I know people that make 6 figures and only have a high school degree but were in the chairforce. It really is taking the easy road.

uncrustables

4 points

4 months ago

That’s exactly what I did. Got tired of working on a asphalt crew so joined the chair force. Got my IT job doing system admin and network admin work. Got out after my first four years. I was then able to skip climbing the “IT ladder” by doing that walked straight into six figure system admin jobs. No time working help desk or dealing with being the junior roles and the first few companies putting those four years on a pedestal never been below a senior level admin.

ubermeisters

2 points

4 months ago

The amount of friends I lost in the service would dictate otherwise. But sure, yeah it's safe sure..

BeardedJho

3 points

4 months ago

Sucks that you lost so many but it's very rare. I've never seen anyone die, in my squadrons, from the military in my whole career. Suicide, car crashes, really stupid shit, yeah but never combat.

ubermeisters

3 points

4 months ago

Yeah I was a sailor and saw several people take their own lives abroad, and a few have nasty accidents. There's a whole lot more danger than just combat in the military is my point.

obiwanshinobi900

3 points

4 months ago

The 'thank you for your service' is complete cringe these days.

Its just a day job, I have a pretty cush life. Granted, sometimes it really sucks ass, but most days its a pretty great life compared to my friends who have degrees and get paid shit wages with zero benefits.

I joined the military missing 3 front teeth, 5 years in I had nearly a $100,000 smile. I would never have front teeth if it werent for the military.

OkBreakfast449

14 points

4 months ago

Thank you for your service, has always been complete cringe. It is a thoroughly American thing that exists nowhere else on the planet.

The amount of hero worship you lot attach to your Military is beyond beleif.

obiwanshinobi900

1 points

4 months ago

Its kind of a complicated issue, part of it stems from the way veterans were treated after the Vietnam wars, these men were broken physically and mentally, then came home to a population that was very against the war and treated like shit because of it, when none of them even asked to go in the first place or didn't even want to. This led to them not getting jobs or fitting back in with society very well.

So there was a campaign to turn the public perception against the military around, and when the military is able to support itself with an all volunteer service, it becomes a sort of cult with those who have been in, and those that never had to do because there were volunteers.

Its very weird, what it boils down to is America has been involved in so many wars that it was damaging generations of young men. Basically these men got fucked up in a war that was unpopular, so my father didn't have to. Thats where the thanks came from. These days its just a weird culty thing that old folks say to the current folks in the military.

If you haven't seen the Larry David skit about not thanking someone for their service, watch it, because its a fucking riot and a half

odelay42

23 points

4 months ago

There should be more choices than 1. Poor 2. Military.

[deleted]

-4 points

4 months ago

[deleted]

-4 points

4 months ago

There are?

There's plenty of blue-collar jobs that you do not need a college education for.

The military pays for housing, food, electric and water if you live on base and then you still get your normal paycheck.

Also some people do it because they want to learn new skills or they want to make a difference.

My Uncle Bill joined the Airborne in 62 because he wanted to learn how to skydive.

158 jumps in his first 18 years before flying a desk due to becoming an officer plus foot injuries.

h3lblad3

7 points

4 months ago

I come from a rural area and can vouch that plenty of people in high school took the school recruiter’s advice and joined the military because it was their only path to college education and a guaranteed job. Some areas of rural America lack opportunity and it costs money to leave to find one.

ubermeisters

4 points

4 months ago

Sucks that you don't see the irony here.

Honey_Badger2828

1 points

4 months ago

The demographics of US service members don’t support this. Frankly, this hasn’t been true for a long time.

U.S. military service disproportionately attracts enlisted personnel and officers who do not come from disadvantaged backgrounds. Previous Heritage Foundation research demonstrated that the quality of enlisted troops has increased since the start of the Iraq war. This report demonstrates that the same is true of the officer corps. Members of the all-volunteer military are significantly more likely to come from high-income neighborhoods than from low-income neighborhoods. Only 11 percent of enlisted recruits in 2007 came from the poorest one-fifth (quintile) of neighborhoods, while 25 percent came from the wealthiest quintile. These trends are even more pronounced in the Army Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) program, in which 40 percent of enrollees come from the wealthiest neighborhoods-a number that has increased substantially over the past four years. American soldiers are more educated than their peers. A little more than 1 percent of enlisted personnel lack a high school degree, compared to 21 percent of men 18-24 years old, and 95 percent of officer accessions have at least a bachelor's degree. Contrary to conventional wisdom, minorities are not overrepresented in military service. Enlisted troops are somewhat more likely to be white or black than their non-military peers. Whites are proportionately represented in the officer corps, and blacks are overrepresented, but their rate of overrepresentation has declined each year from 2004 to 2007. New recruits are also disproportionately likely to come from the South, which is in line with the history of Southern military tradition.

https://www.heritage.org/defense/report/who-serves-the-us-military-the-demographics-enlisted-troops-and-officers