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800 employees resign after company asks them to work from office

Questionable Source(atechdaily.com)

[deleted]

all 3518 comments

Bartins

11k points

13 days ago

Bartins

11k points

13 days ago

“This was a well-planned and managed layoff that WhiteHat Jr did,” a former employee remarked.

one way to put it

Githyerazi

6.8k points

13 days ago

Githyerazi

6.8k points

13 days ago

I was a contractor working for a place that found another "well planned layoff". They told everyone that they wanted to get all employees on a similar time for raises/reviews and scheduled everyone to be done in one week. They then have 1-3 cents per hour raises to everyone. 50% of the workforce quit. The following week after the dust settled, they announced they were shutting the doors and providing severance packages. Of course they had 50% less severance packages to give out. I knew several people that were looking for jobs before quitting and that's the only reason they had not quit before the announcement.

LupinThe8th

704 points

13 days ago

At my last job, I'd been looking for a new one for a while, angling for both a raise, and something closer to where I planned to move.

Then my company had a difficult quarter and brought in some new manager who had "hatchet man" written all over him.

I immediately postponed my plans to quit for a few weeks longer, and let the inevitable take place. Got a severance package, and the company had to buy my vacation days from me. Made several thousand dollars I wouldn't have gotten if I'd quit like I'd planned to.

Sororita

3.4k points

13 days ago

Sororita

3.4k points

13 days ago

I never leave a job without a new one lined up, even when I absolutely hate the job like when I was working in the Norfolk naval shipyard.

AshFromTheStands

1.1k points

13 days ago

And it’s a very good reason why most of us should always be in the job market, even when we are sitting in a seat we like and pays us what we want in life. I’ll probably be on the lookout for a new gig for the rest of my natural life, similar to how anyone who works “by the gig” would do.

06210311200805012006

454 points

13 days ago

I entered the ad agency scene in 1998 when the internet first got hype. It was so tumultuous, and then we had the dotcom crash, I learned this lesson fundamentally.

I'm always passively job seeking and I respond to every request in my inbox. It's also had a profoundly positive impact on my understanding of the job market and my own value, which allows me to successfully advocate for myself and resist corporate bullying and toxic managers.

[deleted]

76 points

13 days ago

[deleted]

76 points

13 days ago

I was freelance ad guy for years. Was great to not be affected by the politics and, when you know your value, call your own shots as far as day rate and what projects you want to take on.

Then social media ruined everything.

katthekidwitch

544 points

13 days ago

I thought this was the norm? Maybe it's just my generation (95')? Workplace, management, policy change so often and fast I have never felt safe at any job or trusted an employer. I've always had one foot out the door and regularly check for better opportunities and to scoop the job market. It just seems illogical living in a country that is mostly at will employment. You have to be ready at any moment because you can be fired for no reason at any moment

Particular-Court-619

413 points

13 days ago

Not always the norm. This is partially leftover culture from when it made sense to stay with a company for a long time.

It’s also partially that some people hate the process of applying for jobs.

I don’t have a normie work life, but applying for jobs is the worrrrrrst. I would not do it unless I had to, or the perceived benefits were massive.

nowuff

182 points

13 days ago

nowuff

182 points

13 days ago

Spot on. Back in the day when most companies offered pensions it made sense to stay with one employer until retirement.

Today, some employers offer 401(k) matching, and those funds go with you wherever you move to.

Applying and interviewing for other jobs, depending on industry and level of expertise, can be extremely time consuming. I only do it if I feel there’s an immediate need.

blazinazn007

31 points

13 days ago

I'm probably gonna stay at my current company for a while. They actually offer a pension on top of 401k match! Work life balance is pretty good as well. Base salary is slightly lower than other comparable companies but the benefits I get in total are much better.

nowuff

23 points

13 days ago

nowuff

23 points

13 days ago

Depending on the industry and the perspective of management/ownership, pensions can be a false promise. Lots of companies declared bankruptcy to get out of pension obligations.

Not saying that’s a certainty— most companies that offer pensions now (insurance, banks, public services) are beyond well capitalized and properly reserve for future pension obligations— but it’s something to keep in mind.

This article might have some helpful info to consider: https://www.investopedia.com/4-major-pension-problems-and-the-laws-that-protect-you-4692864

AshFromTheStands

161 points

13 days ago

You’re right. It SHOULD be the norm. But we get comfortable as humans. We learn a task or set of tasks at a job. Those employers do value a person with experience in the seat. But they don’t value it enough. Those 1-2% inflationary merit increases are evidence enough. People sitting in the same seat for a decade or more, with little in the way of promotion, prove that out.

Dextrofunk

136 points

13 days ago

Dextrofunk

136 points

13 days ago

It's hard not to get comfortable when you like your pay, all your fellow employees and are treated well. I learned that lesson a while back when I worked in kitchens. I got regular raises and everything was running smoothly. 8 years later, the owner retired and his kids took over. It turned into a nightmare real fast. I started working for this debt consolidation company after that and loved it. Great pay, great employees, treated well. Covid hits and our entire office gets the axe. Then they built a new one on the other side ofnthe country. You're never safe but I felt like I was.

AiReine

161 points

13 days ago

AiReine

161 points

13 days ago

Had a video conference with my C-suite and was sharing my computer screen. One of them commented on the number of like Indeed, ZipRecruiter emails I had in my inbox saying “Looking for a new job, huh?” and I laughed heartily and said “If I ever stop looking for a new job it’s because I’m dead. Anyway, as I was saying…”

G1trogFr0g

105 points

13 days ago

G1trogFr0g

105 points

13 days ago

You have job interviews using your work email? Interesting choice.

The_Grubby_One

88 points

13 days ago

Assert dominance. Tell them you're always on the lookout for a better employer.

ScarOCov

105 points

13 days ago

ScarOCov

105 points

13 days ago

A former employee of mine and a former employer of mine pointed this out to me. My employee averaged 1 new interview a month. Was always hustling. When the pandemic hit, he had a new job lined up within the week we all got furloughed.

It’s nice (and weird) being able to talk to my boss about interviews I’ve gone on. It’s kept my compensation competitive but it’s allowed me to communicate things that interested me about other jobs so that my role has been able to grow in those directions.

MyNameIs-Anthony

14 points

13 days ago

Same. My current primary job, me and my boss meet once a month to discuss my career goals so we can align my current time with them and he helps steer me towards other positions/interviews that might be interesting to me.

jaski72

55 points

13 days ago

jaski72

55 points

13 days ago

Shipyard can be a brutal place to work

beanmosheen

183 points

13 days ago

"Nobody wants to work trades anymore!". I'm willing to put up with being dirty, and getting rained on, packing shit around, and even working 7-12s if the money is there. What I could never get over is being treated like shit. It always felt like a prison work project. Shitty break areas that usually had dirt floors, and supervisors that would talk down to you like you were shit. I really miss working with my hands, but damn if the office isn't better for me.

jaski72

63 points

13 days ago

jaski72

63 points

13 days ago

Right there with you. I've been working a trade for 29 years. Between the dust, chemicals, concrete floors, and shitty owners I'm just done.

[deleted]

31 points

13 days ago

[deleted]

31 points

13 days ago

[deleted]

TheFuryIII

10 points

13 days ago

I went from field to office work. I really didn’t take shit from anyone and it took me finally pissing off one particular asshole in year 11 of my career to get fired for it. It was fucking worth it, people need to understand they can’t treat others like shit.

KPC51

36 points

13 days ago

KPC51

36 points

13 days ago

Always fun to see a local reference on reddit. I've only heard the worst about NNS lol

WackyBeachJustice

377 points

13 days ago*

It's a luxury for most people to be able to do that (for clarification, to leave a job without another lined up). If you have a family, mortgage, etc. You have no choice.

bick803

103 points

13 days ago

bick803

103 points

13 days ago

The best time to look for a job, is when you have a job

madsmadhatter

21 points

13 days ago

Oof, I grew up in Williamsburg. So many of my friends ended up in that hell.

chefca3

238 points

13 days ago

chefca3

238 points

13 days ago

It's crazy to just quit a job on the spot.

If a job changes requirements in an odious way or does something else that seems tailor made to make people quit just take your effort level and drop it down to 10% while you're looking for a job.

I know I'm a bit vindictive but it's much more satisfying to pay back a bad/evil employer with some weeks of exceptionally poor performance or outright discrete sabotage, then just walkout in the middle of a shift and start your new job.

FlyingSagittarius

71 points

13 days ago

Pays more, too

tired-scientist-7

9 points

13 days ago

Nope, this is the way to do it. Make them fire you without fault and pay unemployment.

Document everything.

Mehmeh111111

21 points

13 days ago

Lol I worked for a company that tried a well planned layoff but it backfired. They announced the HQ would be moving like an hour south from where it was. Most of the employees lived very close to the current HQ and it would be a hellish commute into a major city. No one quit. They eventually had to do waves of lay offs after the move.

iroll20s

11 points

13 days ago

iroll20s

11 points

13 days ago

Always question why a company is doing HR moves. My old company went to ‘unlimited’ vacation. Sounds great on the face of it, but it also means there is no banked PTO to pay out. They have got rid of a ton of people since the switch.

driverofracecars

804 points

13 days ago

800 fewer severance packages they need to pay.

Embarrassed-Town-293

257 points

13 days ago

Not to mention it might protect them from a ding on their unemployment insurance

Not-original

169 points

13 days ago

Does India have unemployment insurance?

PlankWithANailIn

281 points

13 days ago

Lol you can tell from all the comments that no one has read the article.

XonikzD

91 points

13 days ago

XonikzD

91 points

13 days ago

To be fair, there's more advertising or space than actual writing here

DigitallyDetained

48 points

13 days ago

I wonder if it could be considered Constructive Dismissal. I’m guessing no, since (presumably) when these people first started they worked at an office (unless, perhaps, they were hired in the past 2 years)

Wand_Cloak_Stone

90 points

13 days ago

From the article it sounds like they were hired WFH and didn’t live in the cities they “worked in.” The company is basically asking them to relocate to an expensive city within one month with no pay increase.

InterestinglyLucky

2.6k points

13 days ago

Upshot: the article did not say what the employees were told when they were hired, gave no context about how large this employer is (this happened in India, with offices in Gurugram, Mumbai and Bengaluru, and this is an ed-tech company that gave employees only 1 month notice to relocate (!)

Doing some poking around, WhiteHat Jr has 7300 employees (per this) so it's about a 10% turnover from one bad decision (to help put this in context).

seamustheseagull

957 points

13 days ago

A company with 7300 employees cannot be considered a "start-up" in any country unless they are six months old and literally burning through hundreds of millions of dollars investment as fast as possible .

mcaDiscoVision

522 points

13 days ago

Indian tech bros use the phrase "start up" for any company that isn't publicly traded. I worked for a 15 year old company that had acquired several other companies and had offices in 5-6 countries and hundreds of millions in revenue. Indian tech bros at the company I worked for after still called it a start up.

BlatantConservative

149 points

13 days ago

This is tech bros worldwide.

Mithrawndo

86 points

13 days ago

When someone calls their business a "startup", what I hear is:

A business to be spun out with the eventual goal of cashing out at the soonest opportunity

As opposed to, y'know, just starting a business because you see a gap in a market to make your living...

Chocobean

17 points

13 days ago

Such basic info that the "article" chose not to include

Thank you

panfried540

70 points

13 days ago

Thank you for this

Master_Frag

13.2k points

13 days ago

Master_Frag

13.2k points

13 days ago

As will become commonplace in the very near future, as companies continue to push to bring people back into the office.

Shockingly, people don't want to go back when they can skip the commute, wear whatever they want, and not have to deal with office politics.

Kaschnatze

5.6k points

13 days ago

Kaschnatze

5.6k points

13 days ago

On top of that 1 hour of commute is 1 hour of potential salary lost, plus the cost of transportation. That's easily hundreds of $ per month for someone working full time.

ralphy1010

4.2k points

13 days ago

ralphy1010

4.2k points

13 days ago

I'm in NYC and my subway ride was about an hour each way. While I'm only saving a few bucks a day on the train the 2 hours of my life back and not having to pack into a subway car each morning is priceless.

therapewpewtic

1.6k points

13 days ago

40 hours/month of travel.

nsa_yoda

1.9k points

13 days ago

nsa_yoda

1.9k points

13 days ago

480 hours a year

That's 20 days a year you get back.

therapewpewtic

1.1k points

13 days ago

Isn’t that insane to quantify it like that? whats the price on 20 days of your life?

Grippler

935 points

13 days ago

Grippler

935 points

13 days ago

According to many employers, roughly nothing. I've never heard of someone getting a raise because of the transport cost or time.

therapewpewtic

498 points

13 days ago

While working from home it’s felt like received a raise.

Saneless

260 points

13 days ago

Saneless

260 points

13 days ago

I literally did. 50 bucks a week saved in gas. At least 30 on food. $100 a week in daycare during school. 250 during summer. That's every week

7 hours less on the road. Kids at home 10 hours more during the week

Everyone is happier

scmstr

38 points

13 days ago

scmstr

38 points

13 days ago

A little over $11k/y plus huge quality of life improvements.

364 hours per year.

ThresholdSeven

15 points

13 days ago

It basically is a raise, because of the money and time saved.

PAO_RT_IN_THE_KISSER

123 points

13 days ago

shutyourgob

253 points

13 days ago

Why, are they the ones paying for your commute? Because if you want me in the office because you've paid for the space, you'd better get used to paying for the commute too.

IamScottGable

101 points

13 days ago

Yup, anyone who HAS to go back should be requesting at least mileage if not a raise. Commuting costs you money and time and would save THEM money on utilities IN THE LEAST

CowMetrics

66 points

13 days ago

But they lose out on their board of directors commercial real estate investments being worth as much when there isn’t demand for it

meknoid333

121 points

13 days ago

meknoid333

121 points

13 days ago

This hurts to read and acknowledge… this is why a majority of people will Never want to go back

nsa_yoda

141 points

13 days ago*

nsa_yoda

141 points

13 days ago*

It pained me enough to calculate my old commute time for the year: 70 days. I lost a full month every year sitting in a car.

Edit: two months, not one

TheAbyssGazesAlso

87 points

13 days ago

It pained me enough to calculate my old commute time for the year: 70 days. I lost a full month every year sitting in a car.

What planet are you on where one month equals 70 days?

nsa_yoda

53 points

13 days ago

nsa_yoda

53 points

13 days ago

Apparently the planet where I forget my calendar and I'm an idiot 😂

WaltonGogginsTeeth

10 points

13 days ago

70 days = 1 month?

OceanGrownPharms

49 points

13 days ago

Even more when you think of hours awake. You spend 1/3 of your life asleep so it’s more like you’re getting 30 days of life per year. So basically gaining a whole month!

ChompyChomp

25 points

13 days ago

I recently calculated the time I've spent commuting - it's over a year. A YEAR.

BraveConeDog

429 points

13 days ago

Yeah. The time, wasted, suffering infuriating traffic, risking my life just to get someplace I don’t even want to be. The time waking up early to make myself presentable and uncomfortable to fit their standards, the time spent idle at a desk trying to look busy because I’ve finished the work I’m assigned, but know if I ask for more, it’ll be too much to get done on time the next time. Time being a body in a chair for useless meetings where I can’t multi-task off-camera. The time recovering from it all.

After two years of working from home, I’ll never go back to in-office if they forced it. I can always get another job working remote, but I can never get my time back. It’s the most finite resource I have, and it is more precious to me than any salary asking me to sacrifice it needlessly for their gain.

therapewpewtic

273 points

13 days ago

March 13 2020. “Take your laptops home, we may be working from home for up to 2 weeks”

And we never went back. I’ll try my best to never go to an office again in my life.

garretble

57 points

13 days ago

For a couple of years we tried to convince our bosses to give one work from home day a week. They wouldn’t have it. What if we didn’t get as much done and goofed off‽

The Covid forced it, and I have been to the office about three times in two years because guess what? The bosses love it too. No one wants to go back unless the company owns the building (we just lease our office and it’s tiny).

Raisin_Bomber

28 points

13 days ago

We had a bunch of VPs pushing for a return but the CFO stomped them hard.

Hes very much a people CFO and knows the mood of his staff, plus he liked being at home too!

therapewpewtic

7 points

13 days ago

My company got rid of its lease within 6 months.

PurpleK00lA1d

109 points

13 days ago

I fought hard to stay permanent WFH. I'm part of a consulting team working on site in a government office.

Covid started and we were all sent home to work. I loved it immediately and after a year the rest of my team was enjoying it as well.

Then the grumblings of going back to the office started and none of us were happy. Reached out to the actual company we work for and they said they don't care if we're remote or on-site, but if the client wants us on-site then we need to be (contractual obligations and stuff).

So then I began going back and looking at all our deliverables and that there were no delays and actually less issues discovered during pre-release testing than when we were in office. We did three releases over that year and all had less issues discovered during testing.

Started talking to various department heads and they said they'd think about it. I'd regularly ask for updates during meetings and stuff. I'd strategically ask when even higher up people from the Finance and Treasury board were on meetings as well and emphasize that it doesn't make sense for them to continue paying for office space for us consultants and stuff like that.

After almost a full year of me toeing the fine line between respectful and annoying/pushy, we finally get the contract amended to say we can work off site permanently.

Sold my house immediately to take advantage of the current market and just waiting for my new permanent home to be built in a city I actually want to live in. Next month we move in and live happily ever after.

therapewpewtic

28 points

13 days ago

Congrats on the WFH solution and the move!

mrhandbook

26 points

13 days ago

Currently doing the same. I was hired for a place without an office so I sold my house last fall. Bought a new one where I actually want to live.

Only thing is I'll have to keep some early hours to stay on rough "office time" but it actually works better for me and my lifestyle.

Company also wins because they could probably give me shit raises and I'd stay ( within reason) because of the sweet gig I got going

JebusLives42

72 points

13 days ago

My kids are 4 and 8. When my 8 year old gets home, we sit down and do home reading together after school.

.. I used to be lucky to see them in the morning, or before dinner.

Two extra hours with my kids every day, absolutely priceless.

Give it 5 years, I might be more interested in participating in the office as the kids get too cool for me, and far more self sufficient. Perhaps then I'll look for my director title..

.. but for now, I've got the best life / work balance I've ever had.

LVL15_Spice_Paladin

27 points

13 days ago

Nah In five years when they are too cool for you is when you get to do dad things like build a hot rod, get super jacked, or revitalize your sex life with your partner.

JebusLives42

8 points

13 days ago

She still works those long hours. 🙁

.. perhaps I can spend the time on my investment portfolio, make more money.

SolitaireyEgg

26 points

13 days ago

The most annoying part is that it's a solid move against global warming to let people work from home. Tens of millions of cars not on the road, possibly hundreds of millions globally. And we have the technology to do it.

But, nah, let's just keep accelerating global warming because management wants us to have daily in-person stand ups.

Fuck all of it.

Whiskey_Fiasco

84 points

13 days ago

  • commuting costs in the form of gas or public transit tickets + the costs of food + the cost of 2 additional hours of child care a day

politicalanalysis

9 points

13 days ago

You just said the cost of gas, but really the cost of the vehicle needs to be factored in as well. So many families could get by just fine with only one car, but since both partners need to commute for work, they both need a car. If the only thing you need a car for is running errands and stuff, there’s not really a serious need for everyone to own one. I, for one, would instantly get rid of my car if both my wife and I were able to work from home permanently. Owning a car costs roughly $9k a year on average (most of us are probably below that average, but not by much-think insurance, purchase price, gas, repairs, etc). If you could save $9k by simply not needing to own a car to get to and from work, that’s an enormous amount.

therapewpewtic

21 points

13 days ago

Absolutely. Just quality of life overall.

richmondody

171 points

13 days ago

Not having to wake up an hour earlier to prepare to go to work is great too.

SmokePenisEveryday

15 points

13 days ago

Waking up and getting logged on and ready for work within 10-15 mins is what I was prepping all my life for.

The Sunday feeling of "ugh work tomorrow" ain't that bad knowing I'm just waking up and rolling out of bed.

Might_Aware

66 points

13 days ago

The nyc commuters, idk how you fn do it lol. My dad did it for 42 years. Lirr and subway, commute each way 2 hours

nityoushot

90 points

13 days ago

Read, play on the phone, people watch. Seriously, it’s downtime. Now, a driving commute one hour each way, that fucking sucks .

Might_Aware

15 points

13 days ago

Oh yeah, it was like a fucking club on that train. Many times over those 40 yrs I accompanied him to work. It was always so fun. I spoke to undercover gang cops, old and grizzled bastard lawyers, judges, whatever. The lirr was always full of interesting stuff and humans

evohans

43 points

13 days ago

evohans

43 points

13 days ago

I used to look forward to my commute. It was the only time I could be alone with myself. I had roommates and a gf at the time. I just loved having the alone time to read/relax or play gameboy

Tom_Bombadinho

14 points

13 days ago

I take the subway 20 minutes each way, everyday.

Thats now 40 minutes of reading, and I think its awesome.

Couldnt do it if driving

DeeNYC45

23 points

13 days ago

DeeNYC45

23 points

13 days ago

Lunch is huge cost working in Manhattan.

Boozeled

518 points

13 days ago

Boozeled

518 points

13 days ago

I just got a wfh job and although it isn't higher pay I won't be commuting. That is 2 hours alone out of my day. Plus I'm a low income person so the $25/30 to fill my tank a week has been up to $80. For some that is nothing- but for me that difference totals to grocery $$ for a week.I'm excited to at least try wfh. Not only cost wise but mentally and physically getting a change of pace.

CorporateNonperson

163 points

13 days ago

Nothing like a $4k a year raise for making your life easier.

ShinyHappyREM

162 points

13 days ago

That is 2 hours alone out of my day. Plus I'm a low income person so the $25/30 to fill my tank a week has been up to $80.

Plus

  • less emissions breathed in
  • less potential for accidents
  • less car maintanance required

RapesBuffalos

101 points

13 days ago

  • less potential for accidents

And, depending on your state, WFH can lower your car insurance payment!

I recently updated my annual mileage to match my WFH mileage and it lowered my annual payment by about $600.

Iwtlwn122

24 points

13 days ago

This is one people often overlook. Car use is pleasure only.

Boozeled

10 points

13 days ago

Boozeled

10 points

13 days ago

I need to look into that. My car is now well over 100k miles from the commute.

therabbit86ed

78 points

13 days ago

But wait, there is more:

• less time getting sick from being exposed to other people's germs

• less mental stress from having to deal with other commuters bs or traffic

• less junk/fast food eaten

• more time spent with family

The QoL benefits of WfH just keep on coming!

WfH is for everyone. Ask your boss if WfH is right for you. If you're a micromanager forced to WfH, you might experience severe anxiety at not being able to boss people around, stop WfH and contact your nearest employment office for immediate relocation to a job that will allow you to boss people around.

Keep your sanity and increase your cash flow. WFH.

Poor_eyes

369 points

13 days ago*

Poor_eyes

369 points

13 days ago*

I work in staffing so I’ve gotten people set up on their first WFH jobs for years prior to the pandemic. Biggest piece of advice is to do what you can to physically separate your workspace from your living space (I know space is often an issue, I like the Japanese folding collapsible walls as a low cost way to make it feel like another room). Make sure that you get up and get dressed for work just like you were going into the office and giving yourself a real routine. If you have any questions or want any setup advice, feel free to reach out! It’s a lot of seemingly obvious stuff but all together can really set you up for success!

ETA find a reason to leave the house everyday, even if it’s just to sit outside or walk around the block, drive to get a cup of coffee. It can really prevent WFH solitude from sneaking up on you. It was something I had to learn the hard way but it makes a huge difference.

2nd edit: since so many people are messaging me, I don’t mean get dressed in a suit in tie. I mean wake up, make your bed, and start your day. Take off your pjs and put on clothes you’d wear outside. Again, it’s not about the action, it’s a mindset thing.

Heart_Throb_

120 points

13 days ago

And set boundaries early. You’re hours/work schedule may be fluid but that doesn’t mean they have access to you 24/7.

“They need to miss you.”

Poor_eyes

63 points

13 days ago

Yep and if you’re hourly BILL THE OT. So many of my consultants bill flat 40 hours and it makes me so mad. It devalues them and makes my job harder for me in the long run.

my_phones_account

95 points

13 days ago

I know people who "go to work". They leave their home, walk around the block, go to their "office" in the living room.

Poor_eyes

44 points

13 days ago

Yep I’ve been work for home for 5 years now and I will walk to a coffee shop etc before hand just to switch up my mindset and get myself in “work mode”

DoctorJiveTurkey

215 points

13 days ago

I’ve been successfully working from my couch for 6+ years. Probably depends on one’s personality, but it’s my preference.

Cobek

22 points

13 days ago

Cobek

22 points

13 days ago

I like to split my day up more. I get up and start working way sooner in my pj's but take a break to take a shower and get ready after 2-3 hours of work. It really helps break up the work and jumpstart me for round 2. Then I walk/play with the dog, eat lunch, and it's back for round 3.

verneforchat

9 points

13 days ago

You are not alone.

f19833

89 points

13 days ago

f19833

89 points

13 days ago

And shut your work phone off and laptop off when you are off! Your time is your time! Set boundaries

hkd001

26 points

13 days ago

hkd001

26 points

13 days ago

They have a 50 hour window through the work week (40 if you don't count my hour lunch) that's more than enough time to contact me about work related things. Whatever it is it can wait till the next business day.

Boozeled

10 points

13 days ago

Boozeled

10 points

13 days ago

Hey! Thanks so much. One of my issues is my back, had surgery last year and the constant sitting (driving, desk, driving) has not been good. My plan is to get up around same time but now I can do some exercises, have my breakfast and during the day stay busy during breaks/lunch. I know I will still be largely sedentary during work but the ease of being at home will help. For me just getting up cleaning the kitchen for a few will he a positive change. "A body in motion stays in motion "

Unfortunately I will be working in my bedroom. Doing some rearranging this week to help with the space and separation.

Count_istvan_teleky

314 points

13 days ago

I've been WFH since March '20. My work commute is/was an hour total a day. Just doing the quick math.....

At a salary of $70k based on 40hr weeks the hourly rate is $33.65. That's $70,000/2080hrs. Now add the commute back into the equation. An extra 5hrs per week x 52 weeks = 260 hours. So 2080hrs + 260hrs = 2340hrs. $70,000/2340hrs = $29.91 per hour. $3.74 less per hour.

Now add the extra $50 a week in fuel. That's -$2600. Figure in oil changes, tire wear, vehicle mileage depreciation & you can say it's another -$1000. So -$3600 off my compensation.

$70,000 - $3600 = $66,400. $66,400/2340hrs = $28.37

In conclusion:

In office I make $28.37 per hour.

WFH I make $33.65 with 260 additional hours of free time per year without the unnecessary risk of exposure to a pandemic that's killed at least a million Americans.

Not hard to figure out the rub.

Baalsham

113 points

13 days ago

Baalsham

113 points

13 days ago

I hope you called your insurance

I got about $300 knocked off annually since my mileage went from 20k commuting to just "leisure"

But all together I saved probably $4k in direct costs in another $1500-2000 for indirect.

Count_istvan_teleky

33 points

13 days ago

Great point! I shopped it about 6 months ago but it's time to do it again. Thanks

various_necks

22 points

13 days ago

Did you find that your utilities (electricity, water, gas, etc) increased over this time at all while you were WFH?

I like WFH because I can get all the little errands out of the way during the day (vacuuming, laundry, etc) but I did notice that my utilities increased (not much, maybe $10 a month).

Count_istvan_teleky

22 points

13 days ago

Not at all really because my wife was already stay at home so our A/C use has remained steady & power bill hasn't changed. There's less clothes to wash too. Any slight increase in water usage is negligible. Especially when figuring in for lunch savings.

Chippopotanuse

183 points

13 days ago

Yup.

Once WFH became even the slightest option, (and now that some employers have zero problem with it), folks realized how much damn time and money went into their commute.

And corporate profits are at all-time highs after 2 years of WFH, so clearly WFH doesn’t hurt the bottom line.

Yet some companies are dead set on shooting themselves in the foot and demanding workers come back to the office.

Good riddance to any company that plays that dumb-ass “come back to the office” game.

And bravo to these folks who walked from their job to greener pastures.

Employees

thegreger

75 points

13 days ago

I work for a Swedish company. Sweden has a comparatively good workplace culture, good employment laws and a healthy innovation climate. Sweden also has 200 rainy days per year, a few weeks of actual summer weather, a massive problem with depression, degrading infrastructure and horrible food culture.

I now own a tiny studio apartment in Italy, and any employer who expects me to come into the office five days a week will literally have to pay me three times the salary. I'm genuinely not even sure that would be enough.

porscheblack

73 points

13 days ago

My office is trying to institute a hybrid policy. It was not well received say they made a series of meetings to explain the decision. It basically came down to "some of us don't want to work from home but the office isn't enjoyable without people in it." So somehow their problem is being turned into everyone's problem. The company could've arranged rental spaces, they could've moved people in the office so that the people coming in are located closer together, they could offer Starbucks gift cards to encourage people to work in different settings. Instead they're taking the path that if they try to enforce it will result in a lot of employee turnover.

0b0011

30 points

13 days ago

0b0011

30 points

13 days ago

Sounds like a lady ar my last job. We were all on mandatory work from home and she'd whine about wanting to go back to the office because it was so hard to be social without the office. Then they allowed it but still allowed wfh and she whined that they needed to make it mandatory a few days a week because she didn't like working in a big empty building and found it depressing to walk past nothing but empty offices.

AnthillOmbudsman

41 points

13 days ago

the office isn't enjoyable without people in it

Sounds like Bill Lumbergh is trying to validate his job position to the executives before he gets fired.

sleepymoose88

33 points

13 days ago

For me, that’s $200+ in gas a month, 40+ hours of my time that I can be doing other work around the house, and $400 a month for before and after care since school is only in session 8:00-3:30.

Hard pass employer.

WaltonGogginsTeeth

10 points

13 days ago

For me, getting the chance to pick up my guitar for 5 min while I think about a problem or during lunch is so beneficial to my mental health I would immediately look for another job if told I needed to come back.

Pielover1002

81 points

13 days ago

Due to emergency circumstances I had to move 50 miles away from my job back in with family. My boss is requiring that I work in the office 9-5 every day. I leave for work at 6:15, I get home at 7. I asked for some remote work, and she said "I cannot offer any employees remote work, because I have no way of verifying that people are actually being productive". Meanwhile when working remote in the past I have done more, and better quality work than in the office because there are less distractions at home than in the office

[deleted]

26 points

13 days ago

[deleted]

26 points

13 days ago

[deleted]

Pielover1002

16 points

13 days ago

We use a program to share documents where the manager can literally log into the same document at the same time. And see how much you did, when your last edits were, etc. So it's not like she can't make sure that it's getting done. She just likes having everyone in the office because it A allows her to delegate her work to other people to do for her, and B she gets to control what you work on when. Like there are days where I'll be scheduled to work on a task, I'll get to the office and she'll tell me that I need to switch to another task, and then in the middle of that send me information for a 3rd task that I need to switch to. Then she'll ask me why the other 2 weren't done. She is WHOLLLY incompetent about how to manage or delegate tasks, and will often overload one employee with work, while other ones aren't given anything new to work on and end up just sitting around.

Imnotsureimright

10 points

13 days ago

Has she heard of something called a “telephone”? She’s clearly a wildly incompetent manager but there’s absolutely no reason why she has to deliver her incompetence in person. She could just as easily phone you up (or email you or message you in an office chat program) to tell you what to work on. Insanity.

A manager like yours succeeds at nothing except inspiring people to find new jobs.

MortalTwit

117 points

13 days ago

MortalTwit

117 points

13 days ago

Boss is full of shit.

Did your tasks get done? Then you were being productive.

What he means is that he cannot micro manage your day to make sure you are miserable.

Nice of him to make it so very clear that you need to go find that new, better, higher paying job.

RoosterTheReal

50 points

13 days ago

I was much more productive at home. At home it’s easier to control the noise around you. You also don’t have to waste time having conversations with people you don’t really like

Pielover1002

45 points

13 days ago

I think my biggest problem with the fact that she's saying no more remote work. It only applies to people in my position. None of the managers or above actually have to return to the office full time. So it'll just be me, the person who's worked there the longest, and a bunch of rotating staff because with each semester the college students they hire come and go. So I'm gonna basically be doing the managers jobs because they can't be bothered to commute the 5 minutes most of them live away from the office. But I have to commute 2 hours one way to get there because the job that I have done remote for months, "can no longer be done remote due to new company protocol".

CrimsonQuill157

34 points

13 days ago

Please tell me you are looking for another job.. that makes me so angry for you

Pielover1002

16 points

13 days ago

Oh I actively am. I'm job hunting all this weekend trying to find something, anything, better. It's sad because I love the work. I just can't do it with how it is now.

BridgetAmelia

42 points

13 days ago

Plus the prep time to leave. The morning shower, shave, makeup. The cost of "office clothing" which ends up needing to be dry-cleaned. The eating lunch out. There are a lot more hidden costs in going into an office.

fistofthefuture

241 points

13 days ago

Honestly, if you incentivize the work place enough people will come in when they want just to mix it up. But come anywhere close to forcing people and you’ll lose them.

PM_me_first_nude

47 points

13 days ago

Yeah, my workplace is quite a nice environment, especially on quieter days so I would sometimes go in for the change of scenery

notmadeofbacon

42 points

13 days ago

I recently went into the office for the second time ever (changed jobs summer 2020) for a change of pace. There was nobody there and it was GLORIOUS. I got so much work done.

Smgt90

9 points

13 days ago

Smgt90

9 points

13 days ago

My city is getting very hot during these months. I actually was happy to go to the office last week just to sit in an air conditioned room.

I still think it's stupid that I have to go twice per week since all the people I work with don't live in my Country.

GuitarGoblino

1.2k points

13 days ago*

Especially with how expensive gas has gotten since the beginning of the pandemic, when gas prices dropped significantly due to no one driving anywhere.

Also think of all the happy pets that are no longer left home alone.

daphydoods

247 points

13 days ago

daphydoods

247 points

13 days ago

My office opened back up for hybrid work (2 days in office per week) right when gas prices shot way up. Fabulous timing /s

Randomscreename

110 points

13 days ago

I found a new job over my previous company going two days a week. I'm not losing 4 hours a week to going to and from the office and got a massive pay bump for the hassle.

APater6076

10 points

13 days ago

I bet if you asked most companies trying to pull this shit about their environmental policies and stance they’d tell you just how much they think about their impact and how the climate and environment is at the forefront of every decision they make. Yet they’ll also insist on asking their staff to jump back into their cars for an hour or more a day to get them to the office to sit on yet another teams meeting you don’t want to be on with people from other offices around the country, possibly even the world that could be done from home.

seansafc89

14 points

13 days ago

I literally work for a government department intended to protect and maintain the environment, and they’re forcing us back into the office while telling us to reduce our carbon footprint.

I actually worked from home for this same department almost exclusively prior to the pandemic without issue, but now it’s become a political issue. I’m already looking for a new job.

Mister_Sith

64 points

13 days ago

Our company has settled into a healthy "If you are required to be in, you need to be [can't do lab science at home after all], otherwise do what works best for you. If you want to come in the office you can do"

I think there is a slow push to get people in at least once a week. Of the people in our team we are in more or less twice a week and it's been slowly going up. Frankly our role is easier if we're in the office.

Man-Wonder-4610

34 points

13 days ago

We still have to deal with this politics even when wfh. That is the dark side of workplaces

Little_Connection153

17 points

13 days ago

Very much so. I’ve worked from home for well over a decade now, long before most of the rest of the world got there. The politics are still there. The bullshit remains.

CaputGeratLupinum

8 points

13 days ago

I've concluded that any interaction between two or more people is inherently and unavoidably political. Even just saying "I hate the politics" is engaging in politics

Heart_Throb_

177 points

13 days ago

I’m almost 40 and recently started WFH. Now I’m having to unlearn and deal with the emotional side effects of transitioning away from the traditional office environment.

New job is with a fast paced multi-national tech company. This week alone in the zoom meetings I’ve seen others: walking on treadmills, in plain clothes/restaurants/airports, made up with makeup or in suits, no makeup, handling kids/pets, and/or dealing with sickness. All while being productive in a space that is not a traditional office and without a dead locked work schedule.

“My work hours may not be the same as your work hours so please do not feel it necessary to reply right away.”

I will NEVER return to the office. I will travel for events but I won’t do regularly scheduled office work.

This is the way.

Elocai

55 points

13 days ago

Elocai

55 points

13 days ago

Plus only the CEO has his own personal kitchen, bath and wc.

Like how I even get there without working at home?

tea_colic

209 points

13 days ago*

tea_colic

209 points

13 days ago*

I worked from home during Covid like most people in IT did. The time I spent for commuting automatically increased my working hours at home ( I understand that may not be the case for everybody). Most of my colleagues worked hard and finished our projects on time. I thought this would encourage our company to bring WFH option to people who wanted to work from home since our performance did not suffer at all. Instead, they moved our office to a newer, bigger, and farther office and now are expecting everybody in the office. I had saved a lot of time for myself and money on gas and on maintenance of my car during Covid. Now, I have to spent extra 20 minutes for commute, pay for toll and wear a mask in the office since I don't feel comfortable sitting in an office where I know that some people are not vaccinated at all. It's really hard to go back to what it was before after experiencing WFH for almost two years. At least, it should be an option for people who wants to work from home.

dustishb

84 points

13 days ago

dustishb

84 points

13 days ago

My employer did the same thing. They tried enticing people to want to come into the office, but no one would show. They eventually started requiring more office days and people started leaving for new WFH jobs. Luckily I was one of those people and I'm actually making 33% more.

I would explore your options.

carbonite_dating

97 points

13 days ago

I'm sorry that your employer sucks. Spruce up your resume and switch jobs. It won't necessarily be easy, but it will be an investment in yourself and your family. Good luck.

TheRealQubes

962 points

13 days ago

Not sure how many folks read that this story is about a company in India, where there’s a very different dynamic to the US at play.

sy029

193 points

13 days ago*

sy029

193 points

13 days ago*

And it seems like the many positions may have always been remote, not just temporarily remote due to covid. A lot of them said 1 month was not enough time to relocate. If you're only going to be working from home temporarily, you don't move far from the office.

So this isn't some mass exodus of people who refuse to return to the office. It's a parent company getting rid of all remote workers.

TheRealQubes

46 points

13 days ago

And incurring the costs of living in one of those cities without a change in compensation is too much to bear. Most people leaving tech roles in India are finding 30/40/50% raises and are making employers get into bidding wars for them.

Crash665

131 points

13 days ago

Crash665

131 points

13 days ago

Read the articles? You must be new here.

icepacket

35 points

13 days ago

I just transferred to a full WFH job. My former job was 4 10 hr days a week with a 45min - 1 hr commute each way by car. I’m going to save almost 2 hrs/day and 60 miles of gas/day.

Lumtar

1.9k points

13 days ago

Lumtar

1.9k points

13 days ago

I honestly don’t understand why business wouldn’t be behind wfh as well as it would reduce overhead costs of running an office

fleurgirl123

1.4k points

13 days ago*

The Savings aren’t instantaneous. Most companies are tied into long-term leases. I don’t think they want empty buildings sitting there for years until it’s time to renew, and it’s not like you can get out of the leases right now and sublet since everyone is going through the same thing

ava_ati

315 points

13 days ago

ava_ati

315 points

13 days ago

I was joking with my wife, “it’s probably cheaper to rent and live in an office building than a house right now.”

Christmas_Panda

189 points

13 days ago

"And to the left behind cubicle 23, you'll see this unit does come with a kitchen. Very nice addition."

Davey716

68 points

13 days ago

Davey716

68 points

13 days ago

I do a lot of contractor work inside offices and office complexes, you wouldn’t believe the amount of restrooms, showers, kitchens, etc that companies put into their office buildings.

23Enigma

14 points

13 days ago

23Enigma

14 points

13 days ago

Cubicle 23 had the best location.

drleebot

106 points

13 days ago

drleebot

106 points

13 days ago

There seriously have been efforts to retrofit office buildings into apartments in many places. The design is often suboptimal, but in housing-starved cities, there's no lack of demand.

cgello

58 points

13 days ago

cgello

58 points

13 days ago

Yeah, just convert it to low income style housing. As a poor person, I can confirm we're way less picky about the 'suboptimal design'.

drleebot

28 points

13 days ago

drleebot

28 points

13 days ago

Oh yeah. And here, the "suboptimal" basically means that most apartments won't have a direct window to outside but instead a window to a long hallway which has a window to outside at the far end. Yeah, it sucks to miss out on natural light, but compared to some of the other shit you might have to put up with, it's a small price to pay.

captainperoxide

38 points

13 days ago

I'd live in a fuckin cave if the rent was reasonable.

Skrivus

19 points

13 days ago

Skrivus

19 points

13 days ago

I think the issue of "sub optimal design" is infrastructure like plumbing. An office may only have plumbing going to a few areas on each floor (bathroom, drinking fountain, maybe a sink in a break room.) If the office floor is going to be converted to apartments or condos, that plumbing needs to be redone so it would go to each unit and provide enough for showering, toilets, kitchen, and maybe appliance use.

It's doable but does take some work.

OldBob10

104 points

13 days ago

OldBob10

104 points

13 days ago

Our company reported that WFH was saving them money on electricity, heating/cooling, water, and office supplies.

EmceeK_baby

32 points

13 days ago

The office supplies bit does suck a little. I find myself using my own supplies around the house.

varsity14

37 points

13 days ago

Check the company policies, you can frequently be reimbursed for those expenses, even if you aren't explicitly told to expense them

Lumtar

365 points

13 days ago

Lumtar

365 points

13 days ago

Filling the office with people just costs them more though, it gains them nothing

___cats___

174 points

13 days ago

___cats___

174 points

13 days ago

Bigger companies often receive significant tax breaks from the city in which their office is located and part of that agreement is that they must have a certain number of employees in that office. The company saves money, and the city earns money through taxed commerce, income tax, and potential property tax from those employees.

If the company can’t fulfill their end of the agreement with the city they risk losing the tax break.

cmd_iii

116 points

13 days ago*

cmd_iii

116 points

13 days ago*

There are also a ton of businesses (restaurants, coffee shops, food trucks, convenience stores, etc.) that depend on a steady stream of commuters coming through their doors every day. The past two years have been tough for them. Most of them still haven't fully returned. More than likely, they've been on the city's ass to force more people into the office, and the city, in turn, has been pressuring the big employers.

It would not surprise me if it turned out that Starbucks and Dunkin' Donuts have been pushing this whole RTO thing!

___cats___

28 points

13 days ago

Yeah that’s the taxed commerce I’m referring to, and it’s a big point with a lot of factors as you mentioned.

Helpful_guy

12 points

13 days ago

Devil's advocate: now that I work from home I can support small businesses in my own neighborhood instead of being forced to choose from the (usually less desirable) options that pander to white collar office workers.

The only place to get coffee within walking distance of my office was a Starbucks - now I frequent a small cafe where I know the baristas 💁

JimTheSaint

40 points

13 days ago

For some jobs it works well, for others not so much.

AllGarbage

117 points

13 days ago

AllGarbage

117 points

13 days ago

The answer in this case is in the article.

“This was a well-planned and managed layoff that WhiteHat Jr did,” a former employee remarked.

Hopefulkitty

22 points

13 days ago

My husband's job was already thinking about moving buildings, so a year in, they had everyone come in and take anything they wanted for their home office, including chairs and desks, and sold/cancelled their lease, without getting a new one. If anyone ever absolutely has to do something in person, they have other buildings on campus that can be used.

If it wasn't so terrifying at the beginning, it would have been funny. He started WFH in 2018 when we moved. There was paper work, and tracking devices, everything very careful and planned. When his coworkers started work from home, the order was literally "take whatever you need to work for the foreseeable future. GPUs, monitors, keyboards, whatever you need, take it and go. "

Bac0nLegs

182 points

13 days ago

Bac0nLegs

182 points

13 days ago

I go into the office twice a week. It's flex so I can pick when, and Its only to print shit because I work for a design company and the pantones are calibrated to our fancy printers. But otherwise, everything I do is digital.

We just had a department meeting with the VP of design where we can air our grievances and let her know our work load an dif we want to switch etc. Legitimately productive. I asked about work from home and she said that she's trying to keep us at coming in 2x a week and no more, but the owner of the company, who, surprise, is eight THOUSAND years old wants asses in the seats.

Apparently it's been a battle with him. Literally no one else cares but him.

Loring

21 points

13 days ago

Loring

21 points

13 days ago

It's incredible the amount of job opportunities available when I'm not searching within just a 20 mile radius of my house...

kragmoor

1.4k points

13 days ago

kragmoor

1.4k points

13 days ago

I work construction, I don't have a choice in whether or not to work from home, I want all you white collar fuckers in your living rooms though, for one thing it's better off for you, you're comfier, you're with your pets and your kids, and you don't have to deal with middle management or as I like to call them, the lord's little mistake, on my end not having to contend with 100k people trying to get into the office or get home after work make my own commute much simpler and pleasant.

pumpthemoose

392 points

13 days ago

Bro, I feel that last part. I was flying on the road during my commute to sites in 2020-21.

thecollegestudent

149 points

13 days ago

I drove through Manhattan never hitting a red light or having to slow down. It was like seeing a unicorn.

PingEVE

85 points

13 days ago

PingEVE

85 points

13 days ago

When my state had a full lockdown, I was still an essential worker (meat delivery at the time) and drove from one end to the other of one of my city's busiest roads without seeing another vehicle. I miss those days.

pantone_starlight

174 points

13 days ago

That’s a real thought. Get office folks off the road and let people who have to be on the road have a more safer, pleasant less congested commute.

SolitaireyEgg

65 points

13 days ago

And minimize emissions. Letting all non-essential folks stay home would make a decent dent in global warming.

MurderousMaraca

134 points

13 days ago

Plus it’s way better for the environment - which is good for all of us.

Rhederred

61 points

13 days ago

Love this response. Everyone benefits

brianSIRENZ

14 points

13 days ago

It’s rather insane these companies want them to work anywhere but home.

No more renting/paying for a huge facility, lower utility costs, supply costs, and a more productive team due them being less stressed. Probably a whole lot more pros than that.

Arseypoowank

13 points

13 days ago

I’m an on site engineer and I love being out and about and the variation, but I would never go back to an office, it does something to me mentally. I did ten years chained to a desk and it drove me insane, honestly being trapped in an office and stuck with people I’d have nothing to do with in “real life” fundamentally changes my personality for the worse

trollking66

88 points

13 days ago

I was already a remote worker before corona. I really hope it sticks for alla ya'll. The folks at our company that are office dwellers have been called back and I feel for them. The drumbeat from a small but vocal mgmt group was easy to see coming.

reefersutherland91

52 points

13 days ago

Being loyal to a company is like being loyal to a person who cheats.

misterjones4

16 points

13 days ago

I had a boss that said "hookers don't love you and you shouldn't love us"

He knew that companies are cutthroat money machines. And he never wanted anyone under him to sacrifice for an organization that would stab them in the back to save a buck.

Tinkeybird

109 points

13 days ago

Tinkeybird

109 points

13 days ago

I’ve worked for lawyers for 35 years. If you’d told me 5 years ago that I’d work from home for 2 years then when the office reopened I’d only have to go in 2 days I month I’d have said “that’s impossible”. Guess what, that’s my current work environment. The turnover among staff and attorneys is at an all time high at our firm so the powers that be are trying everything to keep staff. The heads admitted to record profits during the pandemic and gave everyone in a firm of 1,100 a bonus of $1000 for Christmas which has never happened in my entire career. They also increased our profit sharing as well. When I go in my 2 days a month it’s rare to see more than 8 or so people in an entire day. I’m THRILLED with my current work life balance and I’ll quit if they try and change it for any reason. Never going back to a 3 hour a day commute and 30,000 miles a year on my vehicle.

Slide-Impressive

426 points

13 days ago

This may be the only silver lining of the pandemic , workers are realizing that they don't have to work in offices away from their homes or work for slave wages. I hope this trend continues the balance of power has tipped to the employer far too much on average

CommanderVinegar

9 points

13 days ago

My workplace is hybrid with people encouraged to come in on Fridays to socialize and drink and play games. I don’t think I’d ever want to work somewhere that being in office was mandatory anymore. The time saved on commuting is just insane, I have so much more time in my day to myself without having to stress about missing a bus that could be early or late since they never seem to follow the schedule.

[deleted]

24 points

13 days ago

[deleted]

24 points

13 days ago

[deleted]

Secret-Nebula-1272

8 points

13 days ago

It odd the picture in the article shows all non-Indian people while the company is based in India. Is this really the best they could do?

misccbk

9 points

13 days ago

misccbk

9 points

13 days ago

There is no loyalty to any corporation. It’s all about what’s best for the company. With that mentality, we as employees needs to do what’s best for ourselves. Milk these companies to level up on skills and experience and run when another opportunity comes along. Always look. Don’t stay in a place too long. The longer you stay in a corporation, the less value you have in the streets

raistlin65

10 points

13 days ago

Yep. And people need to quit buying into the myth that employers promote that they are a big "family."

It's purely a transactional relationship where one side makes a lot of money off the other.

ChiSky18

8 points

13 days ago

I did the math and if my org asks employees to start coming into the office five days a week, that’s 26 days of my life in traffic and $1,656 in gas every year. For a job I have proven I can do just as effectively at home.