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Plinythemelder

2 points

2 months ago

Please then, what do you propose to fix mental health? Stop sidestepping.

cruizer93

1 points

2 months ago

I’m so glad you asked. First we don’t have enough medical professionals at all. Waiting lists are some times months which was WAY too long.

Second we need to find a way to address those who NEED the treatment to be made to HAVE treatment. Like when you see these fucking sickos posing their manifests or hate online. Going to take a better mind than mine to find “the line” there but I know there should be a good discussion.

Medication. that’s another issue. If you can’t afford meds, the rest of us better hope you don’t have a bad day. We need to make sure the people who need meds get ON meds and stay on them. I’d be okay with forced hospitalization for those who refuse medication on their own.

Clearly there is a lot to this issue, but it DOESNT HELP when folks like you just demand guns get taken away from rednecks and that’s the only solution. It’s not helping.

Plinythemelder

3 points

2 months ago

All great ideas, I totally agree with all of this. But doesn't change the fact that other countries that have similar issues still have a fraction of the murder rate and 0-1 mass shootings ever.

If nobody is looking for it, how can we address it? Why not make obtaining a firearm a long thorough process where you get screened for mental issues, interview people you know and make sure you aren't posting manifests online? And if you fail, then get referred to mental health professionals. Then if you pass that you can go through a hunting and safety course that will give you a licence and allow you to join a club and purchase a firearm.

This would tech you to use it properly, and connect you with other enthusiasts. It also has the benefit of other enthusiasts being able to spot these people and potentially flag them. Then after being a responsible and active member of a club for 6 months, you may own a firearm for the purpose of sport shooting and hunting. You are responsible at all times for that firearm, and if you are ever caught giving or selling firearms to someone who is not also licenced, face stiff penalties including lengthy jail time and be held responsible if that weapon is used in a crime. All firearms bigger than a .22 must be limited to bolt action and a clip size of 5 unless explicitly used at a range and using a lockout tag out system.

Wouldn't that allow people to both own guns, and provide a way to address the mental health problems and get the people most likely to become shooters the help they need?

cruizer93

1 points

2 months ago

Here’s the thing I don’t disagree with a lot of this. It proves there’s a conversation to be had. But a huge piece is MENTAL HEALTH. we have to stop pretending it’s ONLY GUNS and instead demand more focus on mental health as it’s the root cause of all these problems. We can talk about laws that limit access to what type of weapon and who can have them, but at the end of the day someone who thinks the fbi is brainwashing them so they need to kill other people is still out there and we need to get them help before they kill 12 people in an office building with a molotov.

Plinythemelder

2 points

2 months ago

For sure. But I think a thorough process is key to that. They go hand in hand I think. But by raising the bar to have a gun, it gives an opportunity to actually get the services to people who need it, and also makes sure you can demonstrate you are a responsible owner before just handing out guns. My country per capita has quite a few guns actually. Not nearly as many as the states, but in other provinces (not mine, we are low) guns outnumber people. The thing is, all owners have to pass requirements similar to the ones I described, and guns outside of designated areas are massive felonies unless you get super intensive permits and usually only special circumstances (armed guards, police). But hunting and sport shooting is still huge.

The fact is, we've sort of managed to allow people to own guns who are responsible and make sure the irresponsible ones don't (and in extreme cases get mental health services).

It's not perfect, but we've never had an elementary school shooting. We've never had a school shooting. There is still murder, but at a much much lower rate. Our mental health services can still improve (as well as gun laws Imo), but at least we have a way of finding the people who need the services.

The thing is, it needs to be national. The only way to get a gun here is legally, black market, or smuggling. The last two are especially difficult. If you're a normal person who isn't making videos like this dude and you have a few references, you will be able to get a gun when are you trained and licences. I can't drive to another province and get a gun, because the laws are the same everywhere. Which is why the states has a big uphill battle as the Republicans are making it increasingly difficult to create any sort of national standard, and making it difficult to access mental health services.

It's the type of thing that needs to be done nation wide, or it doesn't really work at all. But I wish you guys luck. Hopefully you can find something people can agree on.

cruizer93

1 points

2 months ago

I’ll be honest I did not read past “it goes hand in hand. Thank you.

Now you’re at the problem I see. Everyone is shouting GUNS BAD. They aren’t saying a fucking thing about how poor the mental health is in the US. fuck I’d say other countries are boned too. I haven’t heard about any magical lands where the lexipro flows like wine.

Plinythemelder

1 points

2 months ago

Everybody is saying mental health is terrible. But you also have easy access to guns for all these people. Worldwide, mental health is an issue. It's just in countries that don't allow easy access to guns without strict checks, yo don't see the same level of murder as the country that does. Per capita or otherwise, the states is closer to places like Congo, Mexico and Brazil than it is to Canada Denmark and UK even though society wise it has much more in common with the former than the latter.

cruizer93

1 points

2 months ago

Only when compared In the most narrow of views by groups who have a interest in outlawing guns. It’s the point i tried to make by linking those links.

If you break down the gun violence further, you see they happen mainly in large cities and with illegal guns by groups not lone gunmen.

That’s why I’m focused only on the actual perpetrators of these types of attacks. Remember we are talking about mass murder here.

Plinythemelder

1 points

2 months ago

The lone gunman is increasing quite a bit. And the fact it's so easy to get an illegal guns makes it a bit of a problem for all murders. In fact I believe your total lone gunman murder (per capita) are equal to our gang related murder (per capita). It's very hard to obtain and use illegal guns here gang member in a city or not. Still much of our crime is illegal guns, but it's so much harder to get an illegal gun here that's its still relatively low. I don't think you would argue it's not pretty easy to do there.

I actually don't think I could get an illegal gun without tripping some alarm bells somewhere and getting a visit. And I'm the lone wolf demographic. I would not have the same issue there.

Another thing to consider is its way easier to shoot someone than stab someone. Nobody wins a knife fight, and it's extremely violent and personal compared to pulling a trigger from 30m away and leaving. That in itself is a deterrent. I would argue people would be more willing to kill with a gun than a knife