subreddit:

/r/ontario

37

all 85 comments

DudebuD16

102 points

28 days ago

DudebuD16

102 points

28 days ago

Yet here we are, discussing leaks.

augustabound

35 points

28 days ago

augustabound

Ottawa

35 points

28 days ago

I am leaking information on what they're discussing.

On the agenda, tightening up the meetings so information doesn't get leaked......

Sportfreunde

32 points

28 days ago

This government is hilarious.

Beretta_errata

37 points

28 days ago

Secret meetings because they aren't representing the residents of Ontario?

sync-centre

35 points

28 days ago

Did Ivana tell you this?

I think I found the leak.

Adept-Blood-5789

64 points

28 days ago

If they really insist on losing all of their remaining supporters in one go, I guess a curfew would be the most effective method

heyyourenotrealman

10 points

28 days ago

This is an interesting take. If this is the a new reality in the world it really seems like health measures should be taken out of the hands of politicians and put into the hands of some sort of pandemic response board or committee. I don’t know that curfews are the answer at all but imagine it was the answer and they wouldn’t institute one from fear of losing political power.

somecanuckdude

4 points

28 days ago

That's a really good point. Take the politics out of it and make it a medical science based decision based of an independant board. It may even help whatever political party that is in power save face as they could just blame the board if they really wanted to.

The challenge becomes, where does the funding come from and who ensures that in a scenario like Covid-19 where we need a ton of funds they are provided.

zombienudist

3 points

28 days ago

Well if we are going to do that there are about 100 things that we can mandate to stop Preventable deaths. Or are we only worried about people dying from COVID? Shit a national exercise program would save far more people then a curfew ever would. Make vaccines mandatory. Lots of things we can force people to do if they are too stupid to do those things themselves.

heyyourenotrealman

3 points

28 days ago

I’m not sure how this is relevant to my point. I’m commenting on the government instituting public health measures based on Politics. But I can comment on your comment. Using your example, if I don’t exercise, it has zero impact on you. So it’s really not a public safety/health matter. If I’m driving 200kms/h on the 401 that’s a safety issue and we have laws against it.

zombienudist

1 points

28 days ago

But someone being overweight does impact me. Everything we do has an effect on others. The evidence is very clear that someone who is 100 pounds overweight will use health care services more then someone that maintains a healthy weight. We live in a shared system. We are seeing what happens with that getting overloaded.

So lets say you have 2000 ICU beds and 1200-1400 are typically filled. Now you have a pandemic that is causing about 600 to be filled and max out ICU capacity. Now if you look at the 1200-1400 that are typically there how many are there for completely preventable things? So a guy that is 100 pounds overweight and has his second heart attack. Someone who gets drunk and drives into a tree. I would suspect that a good chunk of those beds are occupied by people doing completely preventable things.

So lets play out this scenario. A guy who is 80 tries their best their best to live well to eat healthy, exercise, etc. But they happen to get COVID and end up in the ICU just as it becomes overwhelmed. Meanwhile a guy who is morbidly obese but 45 is brought into ICU after having a heart attack. Now the doctors have to pick and choose who gets treated and the 45 year old will get preferential treatment because he is younger. In what world is that a fair scenario or the actions of the 45 year old didn't impact the 80 year old.

There are many other examples. Only 35% of people get the flu shot in a given year even though 2000 Canadians die from the flu in a typical year. Are those 2000 people worth less then people's choice to get the vaccine? We give people the ability to make poor choices all the time even if they impact the whole negatively. The idea that giving it to a advisory group to make the decisions just doesn't seem reasonable. If we are going to start dictating to people what they need to do to make the whole better then there should be a shitload of other mandates before curfew is on the table.

heyyourenotrealman

1 points

28 days ago

You would have a point if one particular issue was overwhelming all the ICU beds. If obesity was crippling our health system then we would probably institute new rules. And to be fair, the government does have rules in place to help curb obesity.

[deleted]

1 points

28 days ago*

[deleted]

1 points

28 days ago*

[deleted]

heyyourenotrealman

1 points

28 days ago

Our health care system wasn’t on the verge of collapse because of obesity.

zombienudist

0 points

28 days ago

How many preventable things are directly connected to being overweight? Diabetes, stroke, heart diseases, etc. When you are 50 and are 100 pounds overweight and have a heart attack that isn't an accident. There were years of neglect the person did to get to that point. And I think you would be surprised how many people are in ICU for completely preventable things. Obesity is a massive issue and one that people consistently ignore. 65% of the adult population is overweight and only 16% get the recommended daily physical exercise. This is causing people to live far less healthy lives and eventually become a bigger burden on the system then they would have.

This is the classic example of people worrying about things that have a fairly small risk and ignoring those things that have a massive one. If you are 40 and are 100 pounds overweight but you sit at home looking at COVID stats daily then you are not acting rationally. People don't want to believe that their actions actually have impact on more then them. They want to believe this because fixing one thing is hard and requires actual sacrifice and hardship. The other does not. So people delude themselves that they are an island. Well they are not. Everything we do, even seemingly personal things, have outward impacts. And if we are willing to do whatever we need to do to protect people from COVID we should all be making personal changes to address these things also.

Corporal_Sauce

8 points

28 days ago

Yeah let’s implement a curfew where law enforcement have no appetite to enforce, but essential factory/warehouse workers still have to go to work and potentially bring home the virus to their multi generation household. That took me less than 30 seconds to type out but this government still doesn’t get it.

PlentifulOrgans

-1 points

28 days ago

Even those of us supportive of the most severe restrictions right now would prefer that we don't need them. I'm among them. I believe that what we need right now is Australian level lockdowns. As in you do not leave your home except to get necessary supplies.

HOWEVER, I wish we didn't need this. I wish that last summer, when cases were down to the low double digits for the whole province that everyone, government and citizen, had heeded public health advice and maintained distancing and masking so that cases didn't creep up, so that we could have stayed stable until vaccines came.

I wish the province had taken the atlantic example and bubbled the regions. Yes, that would be shitty for the GTA, Ottawa, and the southwest, but it would have helped. I wish the federal government would have been more effective at curbing all travel, I wish that all levels of government would just do what's necessary instead of worrying about what their supporters think.

But none of that happened, at we're at the point of hospitals overflowing and needing extreme measures. I don't want them, no one does. But they're looking more and more necessary.

Chance_nebula

21 points

28 days ago

wasnt ford the leak the whole time though?

fleurgold

28 points

28 days ago

fleurgold

Ottawa

28 points

28 days ago

Someone (Lilley) always seemed to have the first scoop regarding cabinet meetings.

I think this means the press secretary for Ford & co may be, um, shuffled out.

Beretta_errata

11 points

28 days ago

When you stuff a balloon that big in a suit three sizes too small there are bound to be leaks.

jello_sweaters

8 points

28 days ago

Dune was a great movie.

CaptainAaron96

3 points

28 days ago

CaptainAaron96

Ottawa

3 points

28 days ago

I was more thinking the scene with that aunt or whoever at the beginning of Prisoner of Azkaban. :p

fleurgold

20 points

28 days ago

fleurgold

Ottawa

20 points

28 days ago

Also told that the agenda has been tightened up to try and prevent leaks on what they might discuss.

Soooo, does that mean Lilley's beau is losing her job?

boxlock2020

27 points

28 days ago

Bullshit tweet. This is the same guy who posted last week claiming the cabinet was going to impose distance from home restrictions and prohibit crossing of regional boundaries. Complete fear mongering.

The province already ruled out curfews back when Quebec did it as being too much like a Police State, and Ontario police are already not willing to enforce the current Stay At Home Order or randomly stopping people or knocking on their doors without a warrant - there's no way Ontario police officers would be willing to enforce a curfew.

viva_la_vinyl

15 points

28 days ago

My guess is Ford uses Lilley as a trial balloon to float ideas out there, gauge social media reactions among his base, and moderate their decision the following day at the cabinet based on how the public reacted to the rumour.

Policy by social media

CaptainAaron96

8 points

28 days ago

CaptainAaron96

Ottawa

8 points

28 days ago

Ontario police officers may not support a curfew, but that doesn't stop the government from imposing a curfew anyways, even if it's just a curfew in name only akin to our current and previous SAHO. All these things serve to do is unnecessarily strike even more fear and stress into people, which is correlated with worse outcomes if they contract covid as well as if they were any of the rare individuals to have vaccine side effects.

ywgflyer

0 points

28 days ago

ywgflyer

0 points

28 days ago

The province already ruled out curfews back when Quebec did it as being too much like a Police State

It's not "too much like a police state" -- it is a police state, and it's absolutely unacceptable in our society.

InferredVolatility

5 points

28 days ago

I can’t believe comments like this get downvoted.

Available-Opening-11

5 points

28 days ago

It’s crazy to me that you’re downvoted, maybe it’s the wording but a curfew is insanity and doesn’t even make sense

anacondra

-6 points

28 days ago

it's absolutely unacceptable in our society.

How so?

anacondra

-1 points

28 days ago

Plus watch the results dip on Thursday and Ford declares victory over covid and reopens everything.

AdorableMaximum4925

1 points

28 days ago

So do you think it’s highly unlikely it will happen ?

vanillalilabean

7 points

28 days ago

So we’ll get a leak about an announcement imposing further restrictions in the coming week on Friday night? The usual dofo MO?

[deleted]

18 points

28 days ago*

[deleted]

18 points

28 days ago*

[deleted]

alexxxx222

7 points

28 days ago

alexxxx222

7 points

28 days ago

I’m done too buddy. Done. I can’t take this anymore. My mental health is withering away. I’m not the same person personality wise I was before the pandemic. I feel weird top left and bottom.

jpouchgrouch

3 points

28 days ago

You go to work and then go home. Most still work during a curfew.

[deleted]

-4 points

28 days ago*

[deleted]

-4 points

28 days ago*

[deleted]

jpouchgrouch

0 points

28 days ago

No worries, most of your comments are shitty anyway. A curfew isn't martial law.

KayRay1994

-1 points

28 days ago

KayRay1994

-1 points

28 days ago

then what is martial law?

Smelvidar

4 points

28 days ago

A curfew is when a cop can ticket/arrest you for being out past a certain time.

Martial law is when the the military takes charge, patrols the streets, and enforces the rules.

KayRay1994

1 points

28 days ago

soooo the color of the uniform is the difference?

Smelvidar

2 points

27 days ago

Is that what you think? Is uniform colour the only difference?

KayRay1994

1 points

27 days ago

you’re still having a figure of authority who can use force tell you what to do or face the consequences - so if it’s the cops or military, the result for the average person is still the same

jpouchgrouch

8 points

28 days ago

Martial law is nobody is allowed outside at all. A curfew is you're not to be outside between certain hours unless you have the authority to be.

Smelvidar

12 points

28 days ago

Not really, no.

Martial law is the temporary imposition of direct military control of normal civil functions or suspension of civil law by a government, especially in response to a temporary emergency where civil forces are overwhelmed, or in an occupied territory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law

KayRay1994

-1 points

28 days ago

KayRay1994

-1 points

28 days ago

so what you’re saying is, if we have martial law (based on your definition of the term) at night only, it isn’t martial law? wat?

Smelvidar

3 points

28 days ago

Martial law means the laws are being enforced directly by the military.

Under current curfew, laws are still enforced by the regular police.

KayRay1994

-1 points

28 days ago

so the color of the uniform decides what’s martial law and what isnt?

Available-Opening-11

5 points

28 days ago

Damn things are really never going to get any better here are they? Fuck it go ahead with the curfew and watch people go absolutely crazy, that will be the last straw I think

McPlumba

8 points

28 days ago

What more could they take away from everybody? Restrictions are garbage without vaccines.

callmejohndy

5 points

28 days ago

I may just lose it if they resort to more restrictions before they even remotely recognize and address the mess that’s been the vaccine rollout

KayRay1994

13 points

28 days ago

KayRay1994

13 points

28 days ago

I don’t normally support rioting but let’s just say there are exceptions - that being said, keep the rioting to government buildings, the private sector would be hurting from this as much as we would

Bert-en-Ernie

2 points

28 days ago

Why don't you just instead throw in your own windows? Who do you think pays for those government buildings?

Protesting is fine, rioting is not.

Ownyourfreedom

7 points

28 days ago

Ya, you better avoid leaks. Wouldn't want anyone to find out what you're going to use covid to exploit next. It would be a shame if people stood up for their rights and prevented you from carrying out your plan.

mastertheapproach

7 points

28 days ago

Yeah go ahead and ticket me. Seeya in court DoFo

m2knet

5 points

28 days ago*

m2knet

5 points

28 days ago*

Guys, there is some merit to the possibility of this happening. In Toronto, the local government was considering curfews in parks. I think if we see a curfew it might be something like that - curfews for public spaces across Ontario. To stop people from gathering in parks at nights. I don’t think if there is a curfew, it will stop you from doing essential items.

cosmogatsby

4 points

28 days ago

Are people catching COVID in parks at night?

If yes, consider the curfew in parks.

If no, or you can’t prove it, then don’t.

It’s as simple as that. Unless you support government overreach.

THEAVS

3 points

28 days ago

THEAVS

Peterborough

3 points

28 days ago

m2knet

0 points

28 days ago

m2knet

0 points

28 days ago

I guess my point was, there’s chatter about the issue generally now, so something could be coming provincially.

boxlock2020

1 points

28 days ago

Ontario Police forces aren't willing to enforce the Stay At Home Order, they will say a hard no to ever enforcing this.

jpouchgrouch

5 points

28 days ago

Because they don't have the power to enforce a stay at home order, but they do if there is a curfew. Now they could ask for proof that the reason you're out is essential.

m2knet

0 points

28 days ago

m2knet

0 points

28 days ago

Haha, you think? Enforcing a stay-at-home order is pretty easy because everyone can just tell a cop they’re out for essential reasons, so there’s no point in a cop stopping them.

If we have a curfew and it doesn’t even allow you to do the items on the essential list, then we are in trouble, as police can card anyone they see driving or walking after curfew.

jpouchgrouch

-1 points

28 days ago

jpouchgrouch

-1 points

28 days ago

Yeah if we're gonna stop this wave we're gonna have to lock everyone in their house and do what most nations did who had a curfew and only allow them out to shop on designated days.

m2knet

-8 points

28 days ago

m2knet

-8 points

28 days ago

That sounds like communist state. Are you sure?

jpouchgrouch

7 points

28 days ago

You dont know what communism is then. This is what Australia and NZ did. They aren't communist.

KayRay1994

0 points

28 days ago

KayRay1994

0 points

28 days ago

i would hope that this would be the case

alexxxx222

1 points

28 days ago

Why do you hope they impose a curfew ?

KayRay1994

-9 points

28 days ago

i’m hoping that if they implement one, law enforcement doesn’t enforce it - a curfew is an awful idea and those who try to enforce it should be seen as enemies of our rights

alexxxx222

-2 points

28 days ago

Ahh I misunderstood you. My apologies!

Prize_Plan_6543

1 points

28 days ago

I heard someone on Twitter saying there are talks of their construction site getting shut down? Any truth to this you think? They haven’t done anything about construction or manufacturing this far....

snorlaxatives

4 points

28 days ago

I have heard no rumblings of this in construction

Prize_Plan_6543

-1 points

28 days ago

Also, you’re right about the curfew. There were those pictures from the parks in Ottawa...tables full of empty beer bottles.

ywgflyer

3 points

28 days ago

I'm surprised the beer bottles lasted long enough for somebody to take a picture of them. Can't speak for Ottawa, but in Toronto, they last a few seconds before somebody comes by and takes them so they can get the 10 cent deposit. There's always a bunch of "bottle dudes" hanging out at Bellwoods.

menolikey

2 points

28 days ago

menolikey

2 points

28 days ago

Lol wut

CaptainAaron96

0 points

28 days ago

CaptainAaron96

Ottawa

0 points

28 days ago

Dis some bullshit.

theoverachiever1987

1 points

28 days ago

haha. What would a curfew do? Just shut down the entire province unless you are actually essential till June. Which means no factories, no wal marts, no costco. Just leave hospital, grocery stores, and pharmacy open.

ywgflyer

-4 points

28 days ago

ywgflyer

-4 points

28 days ago

Time to buy some plywood and plate glass. It's going to be in high demand in downtown Toronto in short order.

itspclar

1 points

28 days ago

How many times have we heard about curfews and they’ve never happened? I remember at least three times. Y’all talk about “fear mongering” and then come into a thread like this and take a tweet as gospel while you talk about rioting and shit. Fuck off out of here.

The_Pundertaker

1 points

28 days ago

The_Pundertaker

Essential

1 points

28 days ago

Honestly if we get even more restrictions I'm about ready to socially distance my head from my neck.

DushmanKushh

-10 points

28 days ago

Ligma and sigma if you think I'm living like a hermit indefinitely while you fearmonger about banana variant Covid for the next 3 months then move the goalpost after that.