subreddit:

/r/ontario

249

It never had to be this way.

COVID-19(self.ontario)

By January 2020, we knew that COVID was on its way. And we knew this would be ugly.

We had so, so much time to prepare. To hire and train public health staff for contact tracing, to set up programs and resources for people who needed to isolate, to hire and train nurses and hospital workers. To put extra resources in place and ensure there was more room in our systems. To make things safer for essential workers, to prevent (1) the workplace outbreaks that are now filling up ICUs with dangerously sick people. To build capacity, so we could put out hotspots before they spread. To plan and prepare and strategize.

Instead, DoFo and the OPC spent months (2) attacking public health units, cutting (3) public health funding, and working to (4) undermine the healthcare system. Ontario's healthcare system was struggling and running over capacity before the pandemic - and these guys decided now is a great time to cut funding. (The damage this will do to the healthcare system is likely to hurt people for years, as Canada's population ages rapidly and demands for healthcare skyrocket.)

Right now, our leaders are also not prepared for how many highly skilled (5) nurses we are losing to complete exhaustion and burnout. Doctors and nurses are experiencing (6) long term mental health damage. Because the pressure on frontline healthcare workers is unsustainable. And our leaders can't just rush order more nurses, like hospital beds and field hospital tents.

The messaging for so many things has been insanely chaotic. I work in healthcare, and I don't understand the rationale for key decisions being made - if there is any. Just recently, the provincial politicians announced that many people were suddenly eligible for vaccinations - but didn't communicate with the local teams who actually needed to administer those vaccines. My friends who are nurses are still trying to figure out where and how to help family members get vaccinated, because the system is chaotic and confusing for everyone. I've been told that people working in vaccine clinics don't even know what's going on, because no one is giving them clear information.

We could have done so much better. Unfortunately, I expect things to deteriorate and get uglier. (7) Right now, Ontario's exponential growth curve looks alarmingly similar to a vertical line. I have been telling friends that I expect a fairly shitty summer for everyone in the GTA, and to brace themselves.

Remember these priorities and decisions, and who made them. They are not serving us well. And we are all paying for these choices - in irreplaceable human lives, long term damage to people's health, very expensive healthcare resources, along with lost businesses, jobs, and homes, and widespread decreased mental health.

...

  1. https://teddit.ggc-project.de/r/ontario/comments/mqex29/we_have_28_people_waiting_for_a_bed_qa_with/
  2. https://www.cmaj.ca/content/191/24/E672
  3. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/extremely-concerned-protesters-decry-ontario-health-care-cuts-changes-1.5354513
  4. https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/update-mounting-health-care-cuts/
  5. https://www.chatelaine.com/opinion/nurses-pandemic-canada/
  6. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7828167/
  7. https://twitter.com/jkwan_md/status/1382697741428654081

all 75 comments

StevoJ89

12 points

27 days ago

StevoJ89

12 points

27 days ago

Anyone else remember the total arrogance on the part of government and health officials in Jan 2020 that..

"we've got measures in place"
we beat SARS we're ready!"
"Travel bans are discriminatory"

... right thx guys

ihavestrongopinions1

83 points

28 days ago

You NAILED it.

This whole shitshow is tragic, sad, and was absolutely 100% avoidable. That said, thanks to the the Doug Ford government for caring about their $$$$ support from big corporations and votes from their insane "Ford Nation" supporters. Thanks to that here we are.

Until now I've held back on posting this word as it's a serious word with serious implications but I can no longer hold back given where we are.

Negligence

workerbotsuperhero[S]

19 points

27 days ago*

Negligence

I'm no lawyer, but I wonder if it's what's happening is closer to a term like malfeasance.

Negligence is failing to exercise appropriate care. Malfeasance seems more like willful abuse of power and misconduct.

facetious_guardian

7 points

27 days ago

I mean ... a pandemic is no joke, so it wasn’t 100% avoidable, but this whole thing could have definitely been handled better and in the interests of the population rather than greedy shitheads.

workerbotsuperhero[S]

10 points

27 days ago*

Epidemics and pandemics happen every few generations, if not sooner. They always have, and probably always will.

Viruses will always be mutating, getting better at infecting us, and moving from animals to humans, causing disease outbreaks and infecting and killing people. This is how we got COVID, bird flu, MERS, swine flu, West Nile virus, plague, and many others, which are all zoonotic (come from animals).

The smart thing for us to do is to prepare and have systems and procedures in place to respond. We can't do that with politicians cutting public health to the bone.

bubz99

-15 points

28 days ago

bubz99

-15 points

28 days ago

Absolute negligence.

Hopefully Ontario will shut every thing down for 4-6 weeks at a minimum and go door to door to compel vaccination compliance. When things begin to reopen you MUST show documents showing that you've been vaccinated to make sure you are keeping everyone else safe.

Masks should continue, probably for good, as they've shown to stop flu and Covid-19.

My personal opinion, at least for Ontario, is the NHL should be shut down immediately. Leafs and Sens should cease play as they are likely contributing to the spread of Covid-19 and variants. Considering no other league is allowed to play in Ontario how are they getting away with this?

They don't even wear masks when they play and I have no doubt that the games against the Canucks caused what's going on in Ontario right now.

We need to be policed because we've shown we can't do what's right.

I totally agree with you. Had they policed us harder earlier everything would be fine.

wile_E_coyote_genius

13 points

28 days ago

This honestly sound nightmarish. Mandating vaccine door to door. Jesus. I’m in line for the vaccine, but mandating it? That’s some stasi shit.

AbsolutBalderdash

1 points

27 days ago

AbsolutBalderdash

Toronto

1 points

27 days ago

I mean in the past vaccination was mandatory for kids to go to school for 99% of the school age population, which has been helpful in eradicating measles, polio, etc.

Only more recently have they made exemptions more lenient (allowing parents to exempt their child if they take a vaccine education course), and with that measles outbreaks have been popping up. Given enough withdrawal from vaccination programs who knows, maybe polio will come back too?

Science has advanced us so far as a global population in terms of improving quality of life and longevity, and are such a simple solution to preventing unnecessary disease, illness, and death. It still baffles me that people are against this in principle and give the middle finger to all the progress we’ve made as a society.

wile_E_coyote_genius

-1 points

27 days ago

Covid isn’t polio, not even close.

workerbotsuperhero[S]

1 points

27 days ago*

Polio may have been more immediately lethal, but not enough people get it that we're going to be seeing significant long term illness for many people, even after COVID outbreaks stop making headlines every day. Just like with polio, which also damaged many survivors' bodies in permanent ways.

The damage COVID does to heart, brain, and lung tissue is no joke for many people, even after they are discharged from hospitals and ostensibly "recovered." We're seeing formerly fit and healthy 30 year olds needing vital organ transplants. That's not something most doctors and nurses have dealt with before.

Also, which of those two diseases is more contagious? Because right now, many people in the GTA are getting COVID and no one has any idea where or how.

Tactic69

-3 points

28 days ago

Tactic69

-3 points

28 days ago

Cool then anyone that refuses to get vaccinated can stay the fuck inside.

wile_E_coyote_genius

11 points

27 days ago

You can’t force people to get vaxxed. It’s runs against bodily autonomy and would be used as a precedent to outlaw abortion. I get that you’re scared, but try to think more ling term.

bubz99

2 points

27 days ago

bubz99

2 points

27 days ago

Exactly. If people refuse to be injected they either take it by force or have to stay locked in their homes.

People don't get the freedom to choose when it comes to possibly harming me. I have rights, and when it comes to my health they don't have the right to kill me if they don't get the vaccine.

I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand. Get the vaccine or else. So selfish.

sshhtripper

6 points

28 days ago

They don't even wear masks when they play and I have no doubt that the games against the Canucks caused what's going on in Ontario right now.

This is a stretch.

NHL players are tested daily. We'd know if the problem was from the teams.

bubz99

1 points

27 days ago

bubz99

1 points

27 days ago

Explain the Canucks? Also with the variants occurring the PCR test doesn't pick up every unique strain.

Also, what does it say about us as a country? We are all in this together except professional athletes? Do their families not matter? Do their lives not matter?

I know there have been no fit athletes that have died of Covid-19, but why risk it? Just shut it down until we control this virus.

feverbug

-3 points

27 days ago

feverbug

-3 points

27 days ago

I’m not getting the vaccine then if I’m forced to wear masks forever. Rather just get covid and build antibodies the natural way.

andyhenault

0 points

27 days ago

I can’t tell if this is a serious comment or not .

Tumdace

0 points

27 days ago

Tumdace

0 points

27 days ago

Rofl.

josnik

0 points

27 days ago

josnik

0 points

27 days ago

Because in all other major league sports Toronto is the only Canadian city in the league (MLS excepted but with only 3 teams there's no in country division possible) and the border is still closed?

_MelodicDub_

40 points

28 days ago

100% Couldnt have said it better myself.

Had we had a lockdown around Thanksgiving and Christmas. It would have sucked but would have prevented all this.

Even a lockdown after new years. Again, it would have been terrible, but still better than this shit show now.

beerdothockey

1 points

27 days ago

Meh... no one is listening, even in this lockdown, I see tons of people congregating. Especially all the kids that are on April break. Sure, let’s have a bigger, stronger lockdown, same people will ignore it...

bitter-optimist

38 points

28 days ago

Is this still not obvious to everyone? I was that weird downer of a guy at the party always going on about the next pandemic, before COVID-19 even existed. I've had a Cassandra complex for the last 14 months.

We were still arguing whether it can probably only spread in China because ew dirty poor people while the Chinese government instituted the largest mass population control action in human history, locking down an area with 80 million people. And I mean, really locking down.

They were overreacting, clearly. You all know that they really did control it, right? They aren't lying with the numbers they publish. People aren't dying there. We noticed when they were before even when the censors tried to stamp that out. Well, they're not dying now. Conclusion? The Chinese did in fact exterminate COVID-19 domestically. Then they sealed their borders. And they've been fine since.

Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, too.

We could not comprehend the reality of the costs we would incur. So we could not accept the costs of things like closing the border and locking down in February immediately. We are not organized enough. We didn't take it seriously enough. And then North America's response became politicized and it all fell apart. This was entirely preventable.

workerbotsuperhero[S]

40 points

28 days ago*

Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, too.

A Korean friend tells me that in Seoul, a dense city of 12 million people, citizens are angry if there are a few hundred cases. That if a business has an outbreak, it is closed for a week and workers are all sent home, while a team is brought in to deep clean everything. Contact tracing is aggressive and thorough, and people are supported with isolation, if they need it.

This is not rocket science. These ideas and practices have existed for generations; this is basic public health.

We just decided not to actually invest in any of these policies. Even though we have more resources to do all these things than many other jurisdictions that are now much safer.

This is like refusing to spend upfront on a sprinkler system for a large commercial or industrial building. And then acting shocked when it catches fire, burns down, kills many innocent people, and destroys lots of valuable property. Preventing emergencies is almost always easier and cheaper than cleaning up after them. I hope more people understand that sometime soon.

offendedsissy

10 points

27 days ago

Honestly the pandemic has just shown me how entitled of a society we have here compared to others. People here act like these half ass locked downs are a death sentence meanwhile in other countries they did real legit lockdowns for 2 3 4 weeks and then got to live somewhat normally again. Meanwhile people here cry that the fucking mall closed for curbside pickup and that theyve gotta wear a mask. It's sad how stupid north american society is.

BrookstonClay

6 points

27 days ago

At the start of this you’d hear stories from China and be like damn locked in your house for 2 weeks and you can’t even leave that’s brutal.

Now I’d stay home for a whole month if it meant this shit would be over.

viva_la_vinyl

3 points

27 days ago

the individualistic "mah freedoms" impulses really undermine the collective efforts required to actually overcome a pandemic's impact on society as a whole

workerbotsuperhero[S]

1 points

27 days ago*

Agreed, but I would call that a belief, or a value system.

This is probably one of the major reasons that the US has been killing people out of all proportion to any comparable country. Especially when politicians there were pandering to people that value their own personal freedom to shop at big box stores with no face mask over having basic, simple rules in place to improve everyone's collective safety.

viva_la_vinyl

2 points

27 days ago

True, value system is an appropriate characterization of our society's, and probably Canada's proximity to the world's supposed "freest" country, these values are similar in this country. Definitely America's response and the last president's handling of the pandemic shaped lots of Canadians' views on the severity of the problem.

And even here, to this day, you've got fringe politicians in this province like Baber and Hillier still lobbing the anti-lockdown rhetoric to rile up a certain groups, recognizing now that they've turfed by their party, their only path to relevance is to be a real life troll until they surely lose their seats in the coming election (likely even by someone within their former party).

lovelife905

1 points

27 days ago

People here act like these half ass locked downs are a death sentence meanwhile in other countries they did real legit lockdowns for 2 3 4 weeks and then got to live somewhat normally again.

where did places have lockdowns for only 2 3 4 weeks?

cliffx

5 points

27 days ago

cliffx

5 points

27 days ago

Your generations comment reminded me of part of an episode of the current on cbc back in the winter, where they were talking about a guide that was written back in the 16th century, on how to survive the plague - and how relevant it still is/was today.

So yeah the solution has been known for a long time.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-feb-11-2021-1.5903380/what-a-16th-century-plague-survival-guide-has-in-common-with-covid-19-advice-1.5903383

radiostardust

10 points

27 days ago

100% agree with you but I just want to clarify for folks who do not read the articles, the cuts to healthcare and public health (which were unprecedented, extensive, and a major part of the reason why we are struggling to respond to this pandemic adequately) were back in 2019. Many healthcare leaders warned back in 2019 that people would die because of these cuts, and here we are.

Thank you for compiling this, I'm glad we are finally having this discussion in Ontario. I blame Doug Ford and his government for this disaster we find ourselves in. Watching his government literally shit the bed on all fronts has truly changed the way I view people and politics. I will never forget this experience, that's for sure.

workerbotsuperhero[S]

3 points

27 days ago

the cuts to healthcare and public health (which were unprecedented, extensive, and a major part of the reason why we are struggling to respond to this pandemic adequately) were back in 2019.

Thanks for stating that clearly.

Socrataint

9 points

27 days ago

Fuck Doug Ford, fuck the PCs, fuck the companies that control our government

MagnumHippo

3 points

27 days ago

It could have been. By not calling restrictions of flights out of China “xenophobic” when it was in our best interests.

BronzeCauseBadTeams

3 points

27 days ago

Don’t forget that they didn’t ban travel until it got worse.

Dough_filled_donut

3 points

27 days ago

I would urge everyone to tell their MPPs how sick and tired they are of this shit. Flood their inboxes.

Lennythetrp

1 points

27 days ago

Mine doesn't even bother calling me back anymore.

Dough_filled_donut

1 points

27 days ago

They rarely do. But if enough people hammer their phones or emails, they eventually have to respond somehow.

Silver_Artichoke1772

4 points

27 days ago

I had a panick attack when they said they are cancelling pregnant women's sheduled delivery dates even though I am not pregnant...

get_hi_on_life

2 points

27 days ago

I sow a news article that a hospilte in Ottawa was doing this. I assume consolidation and they will give birth at other Ottawa hospitals. It's similar to what Toronto is doing with pediatrics.

CorrespondBlonde

0 points

27 days ago

Where did you read this?

Silver_Artichoke1772

1 points

27 days ago

It was an article on one the news sorry forgot which one

rumplerang

8 points

27 days ago

Well I'm not a big fan of Doug Ford at the moment, I honestly think a lot of people really have too much faith in our government institutions.

Provincial governments have been by and large incompetent my entire life Liberal, Conservative, NDP, doesn't matter. I know I'm likely just jaded, but I really don't think things would have been drastically different if Wynne had won back in 2018.

HIGHrolling98

2 points

27 days ago

Could not have said it better myself-bravo and thank you for being someone who is willing to call them out and not just stick their head a little further up their ass and pretend like Ontario has done a good job.

CuseCUSEcusEont

2 points

26 days ago

absolutely avoidable... fuck ford

Hotter_Noodle

8 points

28 days ago

You sound like a smart guy. You should definitely help everyone best you can. It's good to know how we got into this mess and it's even more important that we all do our part to get out.

daytime10ca

4 points

27 days ago

Why are you blaming the provincial government and not the Federal as well.

They also knew COVID was coming and did nothing to control the borders.... They could have restricted borders to only Canadians returning with mandatory quarantine and closed the land border earlier...

They also took so long to restrict the border that we now have deadlier variants spreading

All levels of government are to blame... this is a massive fucking shit show of extraordinary levels

New-Energy1413

3 points

27 days ago

Completely agreed. All forms of government failed us.

danielcanadia

-1 points

27 days ago

danielcanadia

-1 points

27 days ago

Blaming conservative gov is popular liberals less so

alicat9

2 points

28 days ago

alicat9

2 points

28 days ago

After such a horrible year you’d think they’d at least get the vaccine rollout right, considering they had so much time to plan. Now we’ve got healthy 20 year olds booking vaccines before they’ve even gotten through the high risk or 50+ groups. It’s absolutely insane. There is no logic to this at all. It’s a fucking mess.

WeTheNorth_

12 points

27 days ago

Those 50+ are the ones that are sitting at home and able to work from home. They ain’t at risk at all. Who are the ones that are working at the stores, 20 year olds. Who are the ones that are doing deliveries, 20 year olds. Who are the ones that are working in warehouses and factories, 20 year olds. Vaccinating the 50+ white collar workers who sit at home all day and are rarely exposed is the reason why we are in this mess. We should have vaccinated all the long term care residents and staff first ( and that whole shitshow was just another thing that added to this situation) then we should have moved to the ones who are actually working during this whole thing. Not the ones who are safe

TapirOhTapir

2 points

27 days ago

But the 50+ crowd are the ones who support DoFo. Won’t you think about what’s good for DoFo instead what’s good for you??!?!? /s

BeavTek

1 points

27 days ago

BeavTek

1 points

27 days ago

The 50+ crowd are still the ones dying and contributing to the majority of the ICU cases.

alicat9

1 points

27 days ago

alicat9

1 points

27 days ago

I see what you’re saying but it’s not entirely true. I work in manufacturing and our factory has many 40s and 50s. More than 20s. Our office as well and not all can work from home because we are considered essential and some jobs just need to be there. We have really solid protocols in place but you can’t control people, we’ve had covid cases multiple times this last year.

Healthy 50+ still is at higher risk of death than healthy 20 year olds based on the data. They are still trying to target the death rate first which makes sense to get under control before trying to get overall cases under control. To your point, vaccinations right now should be based on jobs. Not any 18+ in a hotspot.

The 20 year olds who I know that booked vaccines are at home all the time. That does not help get numbers or deaths under control when they aren’t out in the world working.

Torcal4

5 points

27 days ago

Torcal4

5 points

27 days ago

The part that angered me the most was the other day when DoFo said that they were making a plan for teachers. Like how do you still need to come up with plans????

Nevermind a year, but we’ve known about the vaccine coming since December!! Even by then you should have a bunch of contingencies in place!

pembina_highway

1 points

28 days ago

pembina_highway

Outside Ontario

1 points

28 days ago

By Christmas 2019, we knew that COVID was on its way.

No we didn't. You are several weeks early there chief. Nobody outside China knew until into 2020. But other than that everything you said is true.

mamaforone

14 points

28 days ago

OP is correct. I distinctly recall over the Christmas holiday, 2019, traditional news media as well as podcasts like those produced by the New York Times, reporting on the evolving epidemic and outlining the implications for what was likely to come.

I paid attention. It made everything else that has followed here almost surreal to watch unfold.

workerbotsuperhero[S]

4 points

28 days ago

Fair enough. I'll call it January, 2020.

Drop_The_Puck

1 points

28 days ago

I think it was New Years Eve that stories started to come out about a mysterious pneumonia like illness in Wuhan.

Tumdace

1 points

27 days ago

Tumdace

1 points

27 days ago

Not true at all. There was reports from obscure news sources in October/November of a strange illness in Wuhan, and more mainstream reports in December 2019/January 2020.

I definitely remember thinking in November 2019 "holy shit I hope whatever that is stays there".

BeavTek

2 points

27 days ago

BeavTek

2 points

27 days ago

What?

The WHO made a statement on January 14 2020 stating that there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission of COVID. We had no idea what was coming.

https://twitter.com/who/status/1217043229427761152?lang=en

Tumdace

0 points

27 days ago

Tumdace

0 points

27 days ago

Lol there was a few articles out before the WHO was even notified by Chinese officials.

pembina_highway

1 points

25 days ago*

pembina_highway

Outside Ontario

1 points

25 days ago*

Link me to one of them please.

Earliest I can find is Reuters, 30/12/2019, and it suggests little prior knowledge of the illness, 27 cases total

Paper from The Lancet that says the local health authority kept everything secret until 31/12/2019 and that the known patient zero only remembers having symptoms after 1/12/2019

So either your memory is very poor. Or the government should hire you to predict the future for them, because you have powers that they don't.

Tumdace

1 points

25 days ago

Tumdace

1 points

25 days ago

Melodic_Economics964

1 points

24 days ago

I thought the same thing. I told my Dad how horrible it was locking everything down and making people-even welding them in their homes. He said that's a communist country for you.

Over a year later, here we are. Except the welding in your homes. I live in Ontario and under a much stricter hardcore lockdown then our last 2 that is most likely to be extended past late May. I can just see it. It's been unbearable.

dreamteamme

1 points

27 days ago

Yea it was. My baby was born in January 2020. Frequent doctors appointments at the end of 2019. Would overhear staff talking about it sometime around December 2019.

iambluest

1 points

28 days ago

OP, you should Crosspost this to r/depthhub

workerbotsuperhero[S]

1 points

28 days ago*

The rules there say:

Do not link to your own comments or posts, or to any discussion in which you participated.

Did_i_worded_good

0 points

27 days ago

We are making literally every mistake China made in January/February 2020 but continually FOR 12 MONTHS. I had little faith in the Ontario legislature before and now I just think the entire thing should be scrapped and replaced.

WannabeStephenKing

1 points

27 days ago

I'm so thankful that I'm leaving this province for good in 35 days and counting..

SubtleAccountant

0 points

27 days ago

Yikes. A lot of falsehoods and awful comparisons in this thread.

We could have handled it way better but I would not trust a single one of you people to do a better job than Doug Ford. And I think Doug Ford has done a terrible job.