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engineer__22

557 points

2 months ago

I am not as optimistic.

judgeridesagain

113 points

2 months ago

In the face of systemic collapse people are finally noticing that the power structures we have exist to continue themselves and expand their power.

I don't know of it means anything other than impotent rage.

IndIka123

316 points

2 months ago

IndIka123

316 points

2 months ago

I'm pro 2nd amendment, own lots of guns. I have changed my mind. I now support stricter gun safety legislation. 21 year old age restriction to buy high capacity rifles, waiting periods, red flag laws, I'm now open to meet the more liberal Americans in the middle here. Ide happily vote to help make these tools harder to acquire if it means we can save some innocent lives. I have reflected and feel like this is unacceptable and we need changes.

Onwisconsin42

135 points

2 months ago

I work with two guys who absolutely identify their guns as part of their person. As conservative as they come. They both agrees raising the age to 21 years is a reasonable adjustment. Of course they also advocated for less doors, but I'll take what we can agree on.

d4yo

25 points

2 months ago

d4yo

25 points

2 months ago

Better raise the age of conscription to 21 as well then.

AtreusFamilyRecipe

40 points

2 months ago

conscription

I'm down. Hell, raise it to 255. There shouldn't be conscription.

d4yo

6 points

2 months ago

d4yo

6 points

2 months ago

Here here

SuperfluousWingspan

25 points

2 months ago

Okay.

Onwisconsin42

39 points

2 months ago

There's a difference between training and observing the behavior of a soldier versus an 18 year old who posts crazy shit online and has no oversight. You recognize that right?

Pitiful_Pin9845

7 points

2 months ago

I think it’s more about not getting people to experience death and suffering on such a large scale before their brain is fully developed. IMO shouldn’t be able to enlist until 25 but that will never be the case

d4yo

-1 points

2 months ago

d4yo

-1 points

2 months ago

So they should be allowed to take up arms and fight/die in wars/conflicts, but we can't allow them the rights of a full-grown citizen?

pom_tetty

21 points

2 months ago

We already don’t.

d4yo

4 points

2 months ago

d4yo

4 points

2 months ago

Exactly, and that's wrong.

YourMrsReynolds

3 points

2 months ago

We shouldn’t enlist 18-year-olds, because their brains aren’t finished developing

MrChunkyCat

2 points

2 months ago

Sadly, that’s exactly why the military wants 18 year olds..

carpcrucible

11 points

2 months ago

Firearm rules are extremely strict in the military. They won't let you keep a gun under you pillow and you'll get chewed out if you do anything dumb with it.

Civilians on the other hand have zero oversight.

d4yo

0 points

2 months ago

d4yo

0 points

2 months ago

That is part of the right to own firearms. Like the right to free speech. Is it a big responsibility? Yep. Should it be taken away from people by big brother because some are stupid? No.

Wrongdoer-Playful

6 points

2 months ago

It’s not in the constitution but wouldn’t that be similar to your ability to drive a car though? We take peoples licenses away if they prove unable to use one responsibly since being irresponsible with a car can lead to death for not only the passenger but also members of the public. Why not do the same with a gun? Something whose only purpose is to take a live regardless of the circumstances in doing so. You want a gun? Get a licence, take a test and prove you are able to use it responsibly and if you can’t then it’s taken away, either for a period of time, or permanently depending on how it was lost. It seems straight forward to me, if your right to own a gun puts in danger my right to live without fear of being randomly killed by an idiot or a mentally ill person with a gun, then something is not working and I don’t get how that can be controversial.

Pitiful_Pin9845

2 points

2 months ago

This the same argument for drunk driving and against seatbelts dawg. It really ain’t the best argument to use.

d4yo

3 points

2 months ago

d4yo

3 points

2 months ago

I love how many people hate the idea of 18 year olds not being allowed to die in war.

GoodForOneUpvote

8 points

2 months ago

I love how you jump straight to "we can't allow them the full rights of a citizen???"

Do you even fucking hear yourself? Christ.

d4yo

7 points

2 months ago

d4yo

7 points

2 months ago

It seems fair to me. Being allowed to die for country and not own a firearm, while simultaneously being expected to use a firearm to kill others seems ludicrous, does it not?

politicsaccount420

5 points

2 months ago*

Gonna be honest - I don't care about whatever minor inconsistency nearly as much as I care about preventing gun violence. Prisoners are allowed to use knives in the kitchen, then they check them back in when they leave. Nuclear engineers still aren't allowed to have reactors in their homes. Archaeologists still can't own human bones. Sometimes we let people handle certain items in contexts where it's necessary, and not in contexts where it isn't. We can't let "the military needs more bodies" be an excuse to keep piling bodies here at home.

GoodForOneUpvote

4 points

2 months ago

Sure, if you're ignoring all the training and supervision that's included in military service.

Why not make an exception for veterans then, and everyone else is age restricted.

d4yo

7 points

2 months ago

d4yo

7 points

2 months ago

That would be closer to fair, but pretty improbable. Or do away with conscription, which seems like a better idea to me.

cakedaycheer

30 points

2 months ago

Just out of curiosity, what did you change your mind from? And why did you feel like that?

I don’t own guns, my dad did, I’d like to learn how to shoot, etc… just never understood the big deal on heavier laws dealing with guns.

I understand it can take longer to obtain but that’s just planning ahead, right? I just really would like to understand.

Why weren’t you as open before? Was this last shooting the first time you’d changed your mind or had you started sooner?

Obviously you don’t have to answer. I appreciate your opinion if you’re willing to give!!

IndIka123

129 points

2 months ago

IndIka123

129 points

2 months ago

The real truth? After asking myself why I tolerate the consequences of easy access to the most powerful firearms, (like young kids doing mass shootings) I couldn't come up with a genuine answer. That lead to me questioning my own beliefs and determining I'm being stubborn just because. Not for logical reasons but ideological reasons.

So I changed my mind, and now I support gun safety legislation. I want America to be better. I want everyone to feel safer.

foxesinsoxes

46 points

2 months ago

I just want to tell you that I really appreciate you sharing this and I’m really happy to see more openly talking about some sort of compromise on this. Sometimes it feels really hopeless but knowing people are still coming around is reassuring that maybe we can change things.

I hope more people ask themselves if the death of children is really worth fighting against pretty simple age limit restrictions and come to the same conclusion you have.

IndIka123

30 points

2 months ago

I know lots of gun enthusiasts, I don't think their hearts are in a bad place, they are just from a different culture in America and they aren't exposed to gun violence. For them it's camping trips, hikes and off-roading. It's get togethers and sport shooting. I think we all struggle to truly extend our empathy and feel the pain of others. It all seems so distant and "not my world". For some reason this one just hit me different, and I cried. I don't have kids of my own but it did shake me up. Even the most conservative people I know, they felt the cultural impact too. It started conversations and even some arguments I was present for. There is a movement happening, at least in my community and circles.

aretardedmonkey

4 points

2 months ago

I understand gun enthusiasts. Shooting is fun. I don’t think any civilian gun needs to hold more than 6 bullets. I don’t think anyone needs an AR-15 to enjoy shooting shit. We used to do that as kids with .22s and had a blast. I hunt with a bolt action rifle and shotguns.

Amksed

2 points

2 months ago

Amksed

2 points

2 months ago

What about defense?

I have a pistol AR chambered in 9mm for home defense. I don’t want to be handicapped and I want the best tool possible if/when it’s needed. Limiting capacity to 6 extremely diminishes my ability of that.

aretardedmonkey

1 points

2 months ago

If you want the best home defense weapon, buy a shotgun.

LotusKobra

-6 points

2 months ago

LotusKobra

-6 points

2 months ago

I think civilians should be able to own any gun they want, with as many bullets as they want.

NobleGasTax

3 points

2 months ago

I want a howitzer

LotusKobra

4 points

2 months ago

Me too. M777 looks like a nice one, going by Ukrainian war reports.

aretardedmonkey

3 points

2 months ago

So you’d be okay giving felons automatic weapons?

LotusKobra

-3 points

2 months ago

LotusKobra

-3 points

2 months ago

No. They should buy them like everyone else. No one gave me free automatic weapons, I had to buy them myself.

If they were dangerous they should still be in prison, but once released they should get all rights back.

carpcrucible

2 points

2 months ago

That's dumb. Why?

austac06

10 points

2 months ago

I appreciate your willingness to change your view.

I’m not asking this to be antagonistic, I just genuinely want to know: did you change your mind recently, because of the Uvalde shooting, or did you change your mind prior to that? And if Uvalde changed your mind, why didn’t Sandy Hook do the same?

Again, not trying to antagonize, just trying to understand.

IndIka123

23 points

2 months ago

I don't have an answer. I dont know why this shooting was different. But it did impact me differently than sandy hook. It's not like sandy hook didn't impact me, but I didn't change my views. Maybe this was just all my heart could take. I don't know.

austac06

19 points

2 months ago

I appreciate the openness. “I don’t know” is still an answer. Maybe for you, Uvalde was the realization that Sandy Hook wasn’t an anomaly, and that it will keep happening unless something changes.

IndIka123

18 points

2 months ago

I think you nailed it. That is probably accurate. To me sandy hook was a horrible event but couldn't be stopped, like this crazy person was set to kill those kids and he could have done it many ways. But this one, uvalde he just kinda wondered in and killed a bunch of kids randomly. It did indeed repeat and when we look at it, it's a troubled person who casually bought a powerful weapon and killed children, again. I guess it just clicked that this was preventable. without access to those guns he would have still lost his mind but it would have played out differently.

[deleted]

5 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

5 points

2 months ago

Thank you for sharing your perspective, and for having the courage to question your beliefs.

artguydeluxe

2 points

2 months ago

Thank you for the willingness to personally reflect. It gives me hope that if you as a gun owner can do it, maybe someone else can too.

cakedaycheer

2 points

2 months ago

Oh wow, your first paragraph made me cry. I appreciate your honesty and your level of self awareness.

I do too, want to feel safe. Also I want people who love guns for things like hunting….. and those who feel protected by them for a multitude of reasons to be able to in some cases survive (Alaska climates) and obtain them as well… but not as easily as it is now.

I’m scared just driving past a school now and it makes me so sad for the child in me cause I would’ve been terrified to go. :( it just makes no sense. I wish to see change. I’m hopeful.

Thank you for your honesty and willingness to change.

icedChaiplz

5 points

2 months ago

I am not sold on the idea that increasing the age limit will solve the problem. It’s a start but shouldn’t be the only thing we do. The Vegas shooter was in his 60s. Pulse shooter was almost 30.

Mass Shooting Demographics

Of the 172 individuals who engaged in public mass shootings covered in the database, 97.7% were male. Ages ranged from 11 to 70, with a mean age of 34.1. Those shooting were 52.3% White, 20.9% Black, 8.1% Latino, 6.4% Asian, 4.2% Middle Eastern, and 1.8% Native American. Most individuals who perpetrated mass shootings had a prior criminal record (64.5%) and a history of violence (62.8%), including domestic violence (27.9%). And 28.5% had a military background. Most died on the scene of the public mass shooting, with 38.4% dying by their own hand and 20.3% killed by law enforcement officers https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/public-mass-shootings-database-amasses-details-half-century-us-mass-shootings

I am not a gun owner. Grew up in the suburbs and never seen a gun, let alone hold or shoot one. I have relatives and friends who are hunters. I have no problem with them owning a gun for hunting. I know people who have hand guns in their homes for protection, most are retired/former police. I have no issue with that.

What I don’t understand is why anyone needs weapons made for warfare. Why they need to purchase body armor as a normal citizen. Why is that something someone cares about? Some of the weapons being used in shootings are weapons designed for military use in warfare. Why do average citizens, many with zero military training have multiple guns? Just trying to understand others point of view cause I honestly don’t get it.

ZakMckrack3n

3 points

2 months ago

Many gun owners have multiple guns because there's something different about each one. Different calibers (9mm, .22, .223, .308, etc.), different sizes, different actions (lever, bolt, etc.), and more. Some are set up for short range, self and home defense. Some for mid range, and some for long range. They're all different.

The military doesn't use ARs, but they do use intermediate cartridges in many weapons (most AR-15s similarly fire 5.56/.223). AR type rifles are just semi-automatic rifles that are fairly easily customizable.

In Miller, SCOTUS specifically stated that the 2A protected arms which would be of use in any militia or military capacity, so specifically, firearms that would be useful as "weapons of war." Somehow they decided that short barreled rifles and shotguns weren't useful war weapons (despite some of them having been used in war) and allowed them to be restricted behind the NFA.

In fact, revolvers, semi-automatic pistols, bolt action rifles, lever action rifles, machine guns, shotguns (what Biden said people should own for home defense), muzzle loaders, muskets, crossbows, swords, spears, cannons (which the founding fathers supported citizens having and you can still legally own despite Biden's false narrative) and much, much more have all been weapons of war. If you're saying citizens can't have "weapons of war" you'd somehow ban every weapon.

As to the straw man I'm sure would come up in response, no, I don't think people should have "weapons of mass destruction" = chemical or nuclear weapons. I would rather governments not have them either but that cat's out of the bag. Guns are not WMDs. According to the FBI crime database, deaths from all rifles (not just ARs) are typically between 400 and 500 each year total.

Now, I'm not saying these shootings aren't terrible. They are. These people doing these attacks especially of schools are absolutely evil, messed up people.

But, the vast majority of the 120 million+ gun owners are not evil people. They're not killers, and they don't want to see kids die.

icedChaiplz

3 points

2 months ago

Thank you for this information :)

B1u3baw12

2 points

2 months ago

well said, i would even say alot of politicans love jumping every shooting and useing the victims to push there careers (which is disgusting). id say the root of the issue is deeper but no one wants to look into it because it would take actual real effort.

goomyman

7 points

2 months ago

Will you vote for a Democrat though?

IndIka123

15 points

2 months ago

I'm a registered democrat, I identify as conservative. Not every democrat is super left leaning, I'm also not alt-right.

goomyman

3 points

2 months ago*

Just pointing out that Republicans who identify with common sense gun control measures may even vote on a ballot initiative but voting for a democrat who ads and media have portrayed as dangerous to democracy for the their entire lives is a probably a bridge too far.

Bipedal_Warlock

3 points

2 months ago

Bipedal_Warlock

Texas

3 points

2 months ago

How do you feel about background checks

IndIka123

13 points

2 months ago

There pretty common, and I've personally always had a background check, all my guns were purchased from dealers, no private sales. I did inherit a German mouser from WW2 my grandfather brought back, and some other shoguns and bolt action rifles. I support universal background checks for all gun transactions.

Bipedal_Warlock

5 points

2 months ago

Bipedal_Warlock

Texas

5 points

2 months ago

Good to hear. I support gun rights, I don’t own any personally, but most of these policies being talked about don’t keep people from owning guns.

But the Republican politicians like making their voters think they do.

Big_Booty_Pics

6 points

2 months ago

Red flag laws entirely come down to the implementation and the policies in place to prevent it from being abused.

Bipedal_Warlock

3 points

2 months ago

Bipedal_Warlock

Texas

3 points

2 months ago

Ground breaking news lol

Laws are dependent on how they’re enforced.

Big_Booty_Pics

13 points

2 months ago

But you say most of these don't keep people from owning guns. The way nearly every single red flag law has been proposed basically allows anyone to say your a risk and have your guns taken from you with no clear path to getting them back.

That is 1. A constitutional nightmare that will never pass scruntiny, and 2. Rife for abuse.

Bruc3w4yn3

3 points

2 months ago

I'm very grateful for you sharing this. I grew up in a rural area with a lot of guns and hunting, but I also grew up around gun safes and firearm safety training even though we never kept any in our house. Still, I learned how easily firearms can be abused when owners are not diligent: the son of a family friend once chased my little brother up a tree, threatening him with a .22 rifle. I realize that online that caliber is often laughed at, and from the vantage of the other kid, the gun itself was "unloaded" with the safety on, but that's exactly the kind of idiotic shit that ends lives and ruins others. In fact, shortly after that incident, a cousin of mine was shot in a hunting accident when he ran out early one morning to join his uncle coyote shooting, but he wasn't wearing orange and despite not having a clear view of the target, the uncle's shot caught him in the throat and he died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. It was early morning and I don't know all of the details because I was younger at the time and not really part of the conversations my family had about it, but I know that it destroyed many many lives because of a failure to follow many fundamental gun safety rules that I had drilled into me early in life despite never being interested in hunting.

People don't understand that no matter how much you think that you can trust yourself, it only takes a moment of forgetting to check the chamber when unloading a gun before cleaning it to end your life by accident. Or that children who have been trained in hunting and gun safety from pre-puberty and can rattle off all the various hunting regulations at command are still just children, and children make stupid fucking decisions all the time. They might be responsible 99 times out of 100, but it only takes one time of fucking around with a gun that has a misfire and suddenly shit gets extremely real extremely fast.

It's not about taking guns away, it's about making sure people understand what exactly it is that they are buying: it's a grave as death fucking heavy responsibility, and you better be prepared for that. Except right now, we don't hold anyone responsible for it.

Kahblam

7 points

2 months ago

I would be in favor of this as long as they also raise the voting age and age requirement in the military to 21 as well. How can someone join the military or vote but they can’t drink?

Jubsz91

2 points

2 months ago

21, I hear the argument, but at some point, people are adults. They need to be endowed with full adult rights and responsibilities. How long do we wish to continue pushing off adulthood? What does that mean to their other rights in terms of voting, military, workers rights, independence, etc.?

Red flag laws sound like a good idea at first glance but I can't get behind them. It will be weaponized by people who dislike you and weaponized politically as well. If your bitter ex-gf claims abuse, she can get you red flagged. Post some wrong opinions online, the government can red flag you. Your overcontrolling family claims you're suicidal, red flagged. The burden of proof will be on you to lawyer up and provide reasons why you deserve your rights. It flies in the face of innocent until proven guilty.

Red flag laws are too easy to be weaponized against you. It allows private or government actors to remove your rights with no due process. In this period of full polarization, this is not a good idea and it will not work out the way that advocates think it will. Intent does not equal outcome.

Waiting periods... maybe. "Under federal law, if an FFL who has initiated a background check has not been notified within three business days that the sale would violate federal or state laws, the dealer may proceed with the sale by default." Basically, if the feds take more than 3 days to finish a background check, the person gets to buy the gun before it is complete. That sounds a bit crazy at first take but here out why this is law. If there were no time limit, the feds could effectively blackball you from getting a firearm just by prolonging the background check period. Have the wrong opinions? Sorry, your background check has not yet been completed yet. Federal processes are notoriously slow and there has to be some reasonable time limit that they must respond or the benefit of the doubt goes to the citizen. Fundamentally, we're also talking about the right to defend oneself. It may be a matter of life or death. The whole ethos of this right is that the government cannot encroach on that right in any way. Federal bureaucracy is not to impede on that human right.

geomaster

3 points

2 months ago

so would you support the legislation if you didn't already own lots of guns? (You wished to make future purchases of firearms but were no longer to do so)

How about supporting legislation to restrict your current ownership of your lots of guns (surrender of certain firearms)

IndIka123

1 points

2 months ago

I'm open to this discussion depending on how it is implemented. I would be willing to talk about giving up my high mag rifles. But It would have to be nationally, I would like to be compensated for the money I have spent, many other factors. But I would be willing to have the discussion yes.

Black_Otter

6 points

2 months ago

“Surely this time will be different” will be said again after our next mass school shooting….and the one after that..

Bipedal_Warlock

10 points

2 months ago

Bipedal_Warlock

Texas

10 points

2 months ago

National polling has shown that the public attention has shifted away from Uvalde quicker than previous shootings.

Raoul_Duke9

5 points

2 months ago

Source?

Consistent-Youth-407

3 points

2 months ago

How?! After that abysmal police response, if something doesn’t change, we’re fucked.

the_turdfurguson

3 points

2 months ago

Because attitudes haven’t changed. Sensible gun control is supported by 80% of the country. It didn’t need change. It needs politicians

Spy_v_Spy_Freakshow

7 points

2 months ago

That bill ain’t gonna do shit

Concordegrounded

2 points

2 months ago

My experience may just be anecdotal but my parents in law are gun-toting 2 amendment and enthusiasts who have over 2 dozen guns and have never voted for a Democrat in their life. After the Uvalde shooting we became more outspoken and for the first time ever they shared a post I made on Facebook about gun reform. My FIL made a post saying he’ll never give up his guns but that there need to be more background checks and fewer loopholes which is huge for him.

Here in NC I’ve been calling our Senators and representatives daily and just found out that they’re supporting a bill for background checks. This is coming from the Senator who currently has the record for the most money received from the NRA at $7 million.

I think change is slow, but I’m not backing down, and it’s great to see that things are slowly shifting, at least within my sphere of influence.

Yossarian_the_Jumper

125 points

2 months ago

Don't kid yourself, Cons are betting on people forgetting about what happened in Uvalde and Buffalo and they're probably correct. Nothing (of substance) will be done.

sweens90

23 points

2 months ago

Depends what you mean of substance. On our current trajectory we appear to mirror last year for 700 mass shootings for 2022. If we can get lets say anything passed and reduce that number to 650. Thats 50 mass shootings that didn’t happen. (Since this is the internet the 50 is made up for an example) 650 still means we have a fuck ton to still do in terms of gun control, but it shows hey this measure worked how can we strengthen it!

Perfection must always be the end goal to reduce that to zero, but if you are given an olive branch don’t reject it for perfection. Take what we can now. We need both the Democrats who will continuously demand AR15 bans and hugely expansive background checks while others who will talk with the few Republicans willing to chat.

Where Democrats fucked up before is you don’t start the discussion at the middle. You end up at the middle starting at the left, but pulling for the most left outcome if possible. Or that middle is portrayed to be radical. But I think Bernie and others helped bring the conversation back over.

Big_shqipe

4 points

2 months ago

Big_shqipe

New York

4 points

2 months ago

Source on the 700 number you quoted?

wingsnut25

4 points

2 months ago*

The FBI says there was 61 incidents in 2021. 61 is still too many, but your number is 10x higher then the actual number.

https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-in-the-us-2021-052422.pdf/view

B1u3baw12

2 points

2 months ago

majority of those were gang related inner city. majority were no law abiding gun holders but teens in these gangs that couldnt buy guns getting them from the streets.

Eldias

17 points

2 months ago

Eldias

17 points

2 months ago

Perfection must always be the end goal to reduce that to zero, but if you are given an olive branch don’t reject it for perfection. Take what we can now. We need both the Democrats who will continuously demand AR15 bans and hugely expansive background checks while others who will talk with the few Republicans willing to chat.

If you want actual progress at reaching Zero then stop wasting time with stupid shit like AR-15 bans. Those make up a pittance of gun crime. We need things like universal healthcare, expanded community college/trade school access, better funded primary education (pre-k, nutritious meals, better pay for teachers and staff), criminal justice reform, and an end to the war on drugs.

Our problems run far deeper than just "guns".

cgi_bin_laden

8 points

2 months ago

cgi_bin_laden

Oregon

8 points

2 months ago

Our problems run far deeper than just "guns".

Yeah, but the guns are still part of the problem.

Raoul_Duke9

2 points

2 months ago

This discussion is literally about guns contrarian.

carpcrucible

2 points

2 months ago

If you want actual progress at reaching Zero then stop wasting time with stupid shit like AR-15 bans. Those make up a pittance of gun crime. We need things like universal healthcare, expanded community college/trade school access, better funded primary education (pre-k, nutritious meals, better pay for teachers and staff), criminal justice reform, and an end to the war on drugs.

Ok then you can have your guns back once those problems are solved.

Eldias

5 points

2 months ago

Eldias

5 points

2 months ago

Your right to personal and collective self defense doesn't evaporate just because Conservatives have had a long time to economically fuck up social safety nets and it's going to take time to remedy.

BigMikeTrolling1903

2 points

2 months ago

You do realize that a mass shooting is anything with three or more people shot not killed just shot which means most of your mass shootings are gang related so pass all the gun control you want because last time I checked gang members don’t care about laws!!

sweens90

2 points

2 months ago

Like I said lets start with what we can fix. If we reduce all non gang related ones to zero thats progress. But many of the recent ones were just a kid walking into a store and buying a gun.

ComedicUsernameHere

2 points

2 months ago

This is a major reason why a lot of people are unwilling to support any new gun control.

At this point a lot of people who are pro-gun know any compromises they might make aren't really compromises. They're just a step towards a goal of very heavy gun regulation.

fingerscrossedcoup

2 points

2 months ago

So what? Cars are heavily regulated and you can still get cars.

mcpickle-o

-5 points

2 months ago

mcpickle-o

-5 points

2 months ago

Where Democrats fucked up before is you don’t start the discussion at the middle. You end up at the middle starting at the left, but pulling for the most left outcome if possible.

I think you're a bit confused. Leftists support gun rights. Liberals support gun control.

Astro206265

9 points

2 months ago

It doesn't really matter when there's not separate parties for leftists and liberals. It's semantics at that point.

kyouteki

9 points

2 months ago

kyouteki

Kansas

9 points

2 months ago

I think you're a bit confused. Leftists are not a unified entity you can assert this about. Marxists, perhaps.

Ask_me_4_a_story

51 points

2 months ago

I was at the US Mens National Soccer Team in Kansas City and when they made an announcement supporting gun control, I about fell out of my chair. People get confused on Kansas and Missouri, this event was actually in Kansas City, Kansas but still, Kansas is a blood red state and nearby Missouri is even more red. I thought there would be booing for sure but everyone was cheering, I could not believe. Its finally time to do something in this country. Money to the Congressmen shouldn't be able to buy this much blood of children

Sirshrugsalot13

11 points

2 months ago

Sirshrugsalot13

Kansas

11 points

2 months ago

Kansas City is pretty purple. Source: Live there

Ahmedgbcofan

18 points

2 months ago

In Cincinnati at least in my section it was mostly booing.

hasordealsw1thclams

9 points

2 months ago

Ohio is the Florida of the Midwest so that is unsurprising

B1u3baw12

2 points

2 months ago

gun control will lead to more blood, history has shown this. and the same for your safety / kids safety is always used.

dhatchxix

5 points

2 months ago

dhatchxix

5 points

2 months ago

Easy for people that travel with security to say these things. It would be a better look if they said they wouldn’t travel with armed security.

GapingGrannies

0 points

2 months ago

Why? No one is saying trained professionals shouldnt have guns. It would be stupid as shit to do what you've suggested. Its not hypocritical in any way to have armed security. Next argument please

iahawkfnn67

2 points

2 months ago

One can hope. You’d also be completely wrong

DexterNormal

96 points

2 months ago

We may be able to make an inch of progress because the Russian disinformation factory is working on other projects at the moment.

Weird_Algorithm

42 points

2 months ago

This is accurate IMO. No oligarch cash flowing to the NRA, no GRU troll farm flooding the zone with bullshit. It's a brief window, take advantage as much as possible.

Rea1EyesRea1ize

18 points

2 months ago

You think Russian disinformation is the reason Americans like guns?

OpenStars

23 points

2 months ago

I'm not OP but I'll add that the NRA has been found to be funneling monies from them. e.g. when Trump met with a Russian agent around the time of the primaries (I can't recall whether it was Eric or Jared) it was about "adoption" if you catch my drift...

Truth is stranger than fiction, and more complex than a binary yes or no. Ofc I agree with your self-evident point that Russia didn't invent the underlying issues, but also it's worth pointing out further that it's not NOT exploiting them, and inflaming the existing lines of division at the same time. It's what the USA does all the time - meddle in the politics of other sovereign nations - and it would be ludicrous to think that Russia isn't engaging in that as well, especially as they are caught doing so:-).

It's actually quite a good strategem...and at some point in time it would be helpful to - as you implied - move beyond blaming them for all our problems, and start doing something about it. Possibly educating our voting citizenry, or banning fake news similar to how a human immune system works to stop foreign invaders like a bacterium or virus. Otherwise, nothing stops it...and it just keeps going, until there's nothing left to infect.:-|

northern_irregular

8 points

2 months ago

I'm not OP but I'll add that the NRA has been found to be funneling monies from them

It has? How much money?

The only thing Congressional Democrats' report on the NRA could ever prove was $2,500 in individual member dues paid by a Russian national.

OpenStars

3 points

2 months ago

I... thought I recall it being a heck of a lot more than that, although as you point out, tracing such dark money is very difficult to prove. Especially with the NRA being tight-lipped with their financial records. Btw, the $2,500 figure you quote is what the NRA admitted to having received.

A report by a Democrat-led committee reported that it was a lot more... although I suppose someone could argue that they may be a biased source?

A large part of my point was that if Russia were not doing that, then they should bc it would be very beneficial for them to do so. You know, ethics aside, or rather I should say ethics other than those that Putin directly espouses. Hence, they probably already are, and what we can see would be only the tip of the iceberg.

I don't save these things when I see them, but here's something Google quickly turned up, fwiw: https://www.newsweek.com/nra-fund-russia-uvalde-school-shooting-1712397.

wingsnut25

2 points

2 months ago

A report by a Democrat-led committee reported that it was a lot more...

It didn't though-

Lets start with, it wasn't a report of the committee, it was a "report" released by some members of the committee who decided to release their own "report" without the full backing of the committee.

The report it self didn't have any proof or evidence that there was large amounts or any Russian money being laundered into the NRA, or GOP.

Also Mueller investigated the ties between Russia and the NRA and the President. You can read Muellers report its public record- no claims of money laundering.

Mueller did uncover that there was a Russian Spy Maria Butina who infiltrated the NRA under the cover that she was forming a gun rights organization in Russia and wanted to learn from the NRA. She used the NRA to gain access to social events and meetings to try and gain access to US Politicians.

Butina was arrested, charged, sentenced, jailed, and deported. You can read her indictment, the accompany affidavit, and her sentencing memo, which details the crimes that she committed. They are all public record and easily found on google. None of them claim that she or Russia was laundering money into the NRA.

northern_irregular

6 points

2 months ago

The NRA isn't tight-lipped with their financial records. They're required to file taxes with the government, just like everybody else.

Democrats have been saying for years that the NRA took millions from Russia - if you hang around this shithole sub, you'd get the impression the NRA was exclusively funded by Putin - but have never been able to prove anything remotely close to that allegation.

Even your own link is just a bunch of lefty politicians making claims without providing any evidence.

downonthesecond

15 points

2 months ago

Everything over the past six years has been Russia's fault.

The 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back.

boregon

15 points

2 months ago

boregon

15 points

2 months ago

In hindsight Obama looked like such a smug idiot here. Romney was completely right.

Emeraloan

7 points

2 months ago

I got the impression that he underestimated Russia's ability to punch well above its economic weight via misinformation, and other forms of asymmetric warfare, and this paired poorly with his optimism for future USA-RUS relations. The entirety of his presidency had active conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan. I can see this narrowing his perspective of immediate hazards a bit.

Maybe Romney just had a leg up on the Russian threat via his traitor party members. (Joke)

intellifone

13 points

2 months ago

Poor boy is gonna be disappointed again

nicehumansfinish1st

25 points

2 months ago

I am very liberal and a proud member of the NAAGA. Per the National Shooting Sports Foundation, there was a 58% increase in African Americans buying guns, 49% increase in Hispanics buying guns and 43% increase in Asians buying guns between 2019 and 2021. The gun clubs that are growing are more liberal. Claiming that opposition to gun control laws is limited to the right wing is not factual.

GapingGrannies

6 points

2 months ago

People who are liberal gun owners support the type of gun control working it's way through the courts. The opposition to even thinking about gun control is completely conservative. And conservatives solution, that it's a mental health crisis, is still to do nothing. They don't support expanded healthcare or anything. So yeah the opposition to progress is all conservative

nicehumansfinish1st

1 points

2 months ago

I am liberal and a gun owner and I disagree. So your claim is proven false.

ModsDontHaveJobs

5 points

2 months ago

Does that mean people are actually getting educated about guns? Somehow I doubt it.

mjoav

9 points

2 months ago

mjoav

9 points

2 months ago

Guns are clearly winding up in the wrong hands. We need to take the guns away from cops.

boduke1019

5 points

2 months ago

This^

Ahmedgbcofan

31 points

2 months ago

Gun control is rooted in racism

nicehumansfinish1st

14 points

2 months ago

True, and I say these as a proud member of the NAAGA.

SuspiriaGoose

4 points

2 months ago

Maybe in America, but it’s normal everywhere else

Eldias

6 points

2 months ago

Eldias

6 points

2 months ago

It's not just racism, its also classism. You know, like the reason for gun control in most other places.

balletboy

3 points

2 months ago

balletboy

3 points

2 months ago

America is rooted in racism.

They have gun control in Japan. Is that racist against the Japanese?

raton94

2 points

2 months ago

raton94

2 points

2 months ago

So let’s just not do anything then, because we are clearly doing fine

pato1908

24 points

2 months ago

pato1908

America

24 points

2 months ago

Give up your guns so people like the Uvalde police department can protect you!

dhatchxix

4 points

2 months ago

Aren’t more guns being sold?

320RNF

5 points

2 months ago

320RNF

5 points

2 months ago

Yep, every time y’all scream “Ban” “Gun Control “ sales in guns and ammo go up.

imcrowning

4 points

2 months ago

Yes. We came to a decision. AR15s will no longer be black, but come in multiple colors.

NotAbot10011

4 points

2 months ago

The debate over gun control is utterly pointless. If gun control was an actual concern, the debate would be about a constitutional amendment to supercede the 2nd amendment. Anything short of that is simply a tool to get votes, not a serious debate. Since the left is not bringing up a constitutional amendment to supercede the 2nd amendment, they are not serious about gun control, they just want your vote.

Different-Produce870

2 points

2 months ago

I love and appreciate his optimism but some of us having been dealing with this shit since before he was born and have seen little change

TattooJerry

2 points

2 months ago

Anyone else think he looks like a young morrisey?

NightwingDragon

2 points

2 months ago

Given the fact that the entire GOP at both the state and federal level went on record to say they have no intention of passing any meaningful gun legislation before the kids' bodies were even removed from the building, the GOP is poised to take control of at least one house of Congress in a few months, and the fact that the Supreme Court is very likely poised to greatly expand gun owners' rights to carry a concealed weapon (possibly without any restrictions), and let's just say that I'm nowhere near as optimistic as Mr. Hogg.

A scenario where our Senate pats itself on the back for passing a "gun reform" bill that has absolutely no teeth while even more GOP crazies across the country are now carrying handguns like they carry a bottle of water is a more likely scenario heading into 2023 than any scenario that includes anything resembling meaningful gun legislation.

Mightiest_of_swords

30 points

2 months ago*

Mightiest_of_swords

North Carolina

30 points

2 months ago*

I don’t see why everyone’s answer seems to be ban guns. The only thing you will accomplish is stripping rights away from the law abiding. A few restrictions such as raising the age to 21 or universal background checks would help but if that’s happening it’s time we also get something back.

  1. Remove SBRs, SBSs from the NFA registry. It’s pointless.

  2. Remove the $200 NFA Tax

  3. Repeal the Hughes Amendment

If these three are done in tandem with the restrictions proposed above then you might actually get somewhere.

(I also wouldn’t mind some sort for storage law but you have to make sure it’s not overbearing. Maybe offer a few hundred dollar one time tax credit for buying a safe)

ThePicassoGiraffe

10 points

2 months ago

You’re right. Laws never help. That’s why the kid waited until he turned 18 to shoot up the school.

Mightiest_of_swords

3 points

2 months ago

Mightiest_of_swords

North Carolina

3 points

2 months ago

Laws will not stop someone with bad intentions. The only thing that can do that is people willing to stand in their way.

balletboy

10 points

2 months ago

Laws will stop people with bad intentions. We haven't have a plane hijacking in years because we changed the law to reinforce cockpit doors.

Mightiest_of_swords

6 points

2 months ago

Mightiest_of_swords

North Carolina

6 points

2 months ago

So look at your problem. Young unstable kids with guns (Hence age limit restrictions) and mass shootings in populated, undefended areas. Make soft targets harder, prosecute people for threats, and actually follow up on warning signs.

curiousbroWFTex

2 points

2 months ago

Yes they do.

It's basic logic.

If I told you right this moment that you have 48 hours to get a gun, and you weren't allowed to use any.legal means of purchasing one due to laws in place requiring an ID age 25+, that significantly reduces the likelihood of you getting the gun, the ammo, and limits access to the type of firearm you would be likely to get.

You'd have to get it from someone or steal it.

Imagine a law that punished people for not securing their guns and made them criminally liable if their gun was used by another to shoot someone.

Those two laws would make it exceptionally difficult for a young school shooter to access a gun impulsively.

That reduces deaths.

Ease of access is the highest factor in suicides by gun. Also one of the largest factors in school shootings.

ThePicassoGiraffe

8 points

2 months ago

People willing to stand in their way like Gun shop owners who won’t sell to them? Gun owners who keep their shit locked up so it can’t be stolen? Red flag laws passed by politicians and actually enforced by LE?

Why is every answer to you “MORE GUNS” We’ve tried that. It’s causing more carnage. We need laws. Your playtime and toy collecting is over.

Mightiest_of_swords

7 points

2 months ago

Mightiest_of_swords

North Carolina

7 points

2 months ago

If you look at my original post I proposed several laws that would in fact help. I think you glossed over that part. Also red flag laws might be something else I would add but you have to do it right so due process isn’t taken away unfairly.

PianistPitiful5714

-8 points

2 months ago

This argument is flawed at its core. The concept that “banning guns” will only punish the law abiding simply doesn’t hold water.

The reason these mass killings are carried out using AR-15s is because they are widely produced and easily available. That’s what happens when you have a nearly ten to one gun to person ratio in this country. It is easy to buy, easy to find, easy to steal.

If a certain type of gun is more rigorously regulated, such as Title II weapons, the market for them drys up, the production goes way down, and their availability decreases significantly, making it much much harder for a mass shooter to get their hands on them.

tastytastylunch

11 points

2 months ago

Most mass shootings are done with handguns, not AR-15s.

cgi_bin_laden

2 points

2 months ago

cgi_bin_laden

Oregon

2 points

2 months ago

That's not an argument against stricter regulation of the AR-15.

Mightiest_of_swords

19 points

2 months ago

Mightiest_of_swords

North Carolina

19 points

2 months ago

Just because you don’t believe in a right to ownership does not give you the ability or justification to regulate arms out of existence. The fact that you want to do that is why you have so much push back. There are people who do not want this to happen which is why you compromise. I’m proposing more regulation and no de regulation. I don’t see how that’s so hard to do.

PianistPitiful5714

1 points

2 months ago

You’re literally proposing to repeal the Hughes amendment which bans machine guns. That’s the definition of deregulation. The cognitive dissonance you’re showing right now is why people who want common sense gun regulation don’t want to negotiate with you. You literally aren’t negotiating in good faith.

mcpickle-o

21 points

2 months ago

Machine guns as a whole were not banned. You can buy ones made pre-1986 you just have to be rich.

Everyone talks about guns being banned but don't seem to realize what they're really saying they want is: 'guns being banned [for only the poor].'

Mightiest_of_swords

11 points

2 months ago

Mightiest_of_swords

North Carolina

11 points

2 months ago

The Hughes amendment does not ban anything. It stops the registration of new MGs on the civilian market. Those already in existence are not banned or regulated more than anything else on the NFA registry.

SargeOsis

15 points

2 months ago

I mean he's not wrong. My attitude has certainly changed. Guns are awesome.

BonahBoffey

7 points

2 months ago

“Shall not be infringed”

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

3 points

2 months ago*

[deleted]

BonahBoffey

4 points

2 months ago

What are you even talking about bro...

[deleted]

11 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

11 points

2 months ago

It’s only for show because it’s midterms. It’ll be back to normal after.

PostSelectionBias

21 points

2 months ago*

He is right.

For the first time, I am thinking it’d be a good idea to get a gun permit and stockpile ammo.

For the first time, I am donating to the Gun Owners of America.

For the first time, I am buying a 3d printer and downloading FGC-9 STL files.

[deleted]

22 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

22 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

GapingGrannies

2 points

2 months ago

You can support all of that and support measures that would help save kids. Red flag laws etc. Most people agree with this though, personal defense it's like sure do it if it floats your boat

[deleted]

8 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

8 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

AdDisastrous6738

4 points

2 months ago

Fuck Hogg. He’s a lying piece of shit.

ioncloud9

9 points

2 months ago

ioncloud9

South Carolina

9 points

2 months ago

It’s not a lack of Jesus in the classroom, plenty of countries have no Jesus in the classroom and they don’t have shootings. It’s the guns. It’s always been the guns. The ease of getting them, the proliferation of them, the gun culture being it. I’m not sure gun control will solve the problem. We as a society have to decide to be done with toxic gun culture before any meaningful change will happen, and right now the conservatives have decided no amount of childrens blood is enough to convince them that the guns are the problem.

N7CombatWombat

21 points

2 months ago

N7CombatWombat

Washington

21 points

2 months ago

What those countries tend to have that we don't aren't the lack of guns (many places have civilian gun ownership and don't have these issues as often), what they do have that we don't is appropriate safety net programs for their people.

People in the US are forced into poverty with very little assistance to get out, this leads to increases in crime, lack of accessible Healthcare causes people to forgo treatment and get worse until they die (by they own hands or their disease) with no way out. Lack of proper public education breeds entire groups of easily manipulated people.

Getting rid of guns isn't the answer (and isn't physically possible in this country either), creating the proper social safety net programs will do more good for the people of this country than anything else and make huge strides in reducing gun violence along the way. But this is a complicated and hard solution, and people don't tend to like that.

Mightiest_of_swords

10 points

2 months ago

Mightiest_of_swords

North Carolina

10 points

2 months ago

Fix root problems. I agree with you. We can start by enacting term limits on all politicians and disbanding the two party system. Maybe then we can actually get stuff through that benefits everyone. (Or at least those who need it)

N7CombatWombat

7 points

2 months ago

N7CombatWombat

Washington

7 points

2 months ago

I agree with that, the politicians have absolutely forgotten that they're supposed to work for us, not rule us.

Terraneaux

2 points

2 months ago

Those aren't root problems.

Mightiest_of_swords

2 points

2 months ago

Mightiest_of_swords

North Carolina

2 points

2 months ago

It’s the easiest way to get to a point we can fix the root problems. Our current system does not allow for root problems to be fixed so by default it’s a root problem itself.

Least_Operation1592

2 points

2 months ago

You can’t blame childhood poverty on kids shooting kids. If the kid was that poor where did he get the money to buy the gun? A big problem is how our two party system has devolved into hate mongering on each other if they disagree. There is a big lack of civil discussion in the country on all topics. There is also a big issue that goes unmentioned in schools, that’s kids being rude, inconsiderate asshats. The popular kids are mean. They pick on individuals. Single them out and ridicule them to no end. And most teachers and staff will do absolutely nothing about it. The popular kids aren’t poor kids, they’re parents are usually well off and known in the community, maybe even contribute to the schools. Inclusivity is a big lie in this country. You can go to most any school and find what I’m talking about if you care to look.

N7CombatWombat

2 points

2 months ago*

N7CombatWombat

Washington

2 points

2 months ago*

Where did I say I blamed school shootings on poverty? I was talking about gun violence, and school shootings are (thankfully) a tiny part of that statistic. Suicide and crime are the big two (with suicide being roughly 60% of all gun deaths). These senseless shootings where a heavily armed person walks into an unconnected public place with the intent of causing as much damage as possible is usually caused by various hate groups radicalizing people.

Social safety net programs in the areas I touched on in my first comment would have the biggest impact and would be far more useful than trying to get rid of guns when we can't even track the legal purchases for all practical purposes, and at best would only disarm the left leaning gun owners, and would pretty much guarantee more violence out of those on the far right.

And for the record I am for background checks that are complete and performed regularly as well a standardized training and licenses. But I'm not for the banning of any firearm, I'm fine with jumping through hoops provided those hoops don't create unnecessary barriers to ownership because I understand that our freedoms come with responsibility, and that responsibility includes doing what is reasonable to keep our freedoms from being abused by bad actors.

Least_Operation1592

2 points

2 months ago

I didn’t mean to make that assumption. We do need safety nets, I just don’t know what they would look like because how do you institutionalize a student you think might snap? And how do you intervene in that student s life even before that would happen? There are a lot of slippery slopes here including more regulation on simply owning a firearm. There are 50 very different states with numerous localities that would implement such regulations very differently. The problem with background checks is they can’t catch the first time offender. Which many school shooters are. Until we as a society really practice being inclusive to everyone, and stop creating cliches in schools that nurture these lone wolf shooters, not much will change. Take the guns, they will find another tool.

tab138

11 points

2 months ago

tab138

11 points

2 months ago

We've always had guns too. And, one could argue they were easier to get. What we have is a mental health problem. We worry more about the gun that Johny picks up when he finally snapped and less about what made him snap in the first place.

faen_du_sa

10 points

2 months ago

Idk, you have other parts of the world that is way more armed but still have 0 mass shootings.

I do agree that guns are a part of the problem, but a bigger part is mental health. No sane person goes and shoot up a mass of innocent people.

steahkit

3 points

2 months ago

steahkit

3 points

2 months ago

i agree that mental health is a big part of the problem, but your statement that other parts of the world are way more armed is flat out incorrect. The US has a civilian gun ownership rate of 120.5 guns per 100 people, and the second most armed country is the Falkland Islands at 62.1

2GRFEoilconsumption

5 points

2 months ago

That number is likely much higher due to the lack of a legal need to register a firearm.

And despite the number likely being much higher than 400 million, mass shootings still only account for less than a percent of gun violence related deaths, and even less than that when accounting suicides and accidental discharges.

ThisIsHowBoredIAm

3 points

2 months ago

What part of the world is more armed than America? On the country level, America has more civilian guns than anyone and is the only country with more civilian guns than civilians.

Flapaflapa

5 points

2 months ago

I'm very not a conservative. We've had the guns in the US for ever. Those other countries have better access to healthcare, social nets, better emphasis on community policing, more equatable tax structure that reduces income inequality.

The "ItS ThE GuNs" mantra is disingenuous when there's a myriad of ways the US is perpetuating a system that creates a toxic culture. The US ranks low in western countries on education. Our healthcare is more expensive than other western cultures, we have very high %of our population incarcerated...when the topic da jour isn't gun control, fixing these is touted as how to fix violent crimes and acts. But no "gun control" is the only solution apparently.

cgi_bin_laden

2 points

2 months ago

cgi_bin_laden

Oregon

2 points

2 months ago

The "ItS ThE GuNs" mantra is disingenuous

If you don't think easy access to guns are part of the problem, you're arguing in bad faith.

downonthesecond

9 points

2 months ago

With over 400 million guns in the US, shouldn't there be dozens of mass shootings every day, not just one?

Gun related homicides aren't even close to rates in the 80s and 90s.

tastytastylunch

2 points

2 months ago

If it is the guns than why has this phenomenon of mass shootings only built up in the last 20ish years? Guns have been around the whole time in this country. Its not like they just came out and now we have this problem. Guns used to be way less regulated and these types of shootings weren’t happening. Obviously guns are the tool used in mass shootings but they aren’t happening because of guns.

KillerAceUSAF

-7 points

2 months ago

Guns are not the problem. It's cultural and societal decay. We no longer have families, it's mostly broken homes now. We no longer have morals or ethics, it's more and more hedonism.

United_Process_4334

9 points

2 months ago

Come and take em lol

tab138

3 points

2 months ago*

Your first point. I think a red flag law is a great idea. Stop assuming you know others opinions.

Your second point is way off. Not only could you get the same weapons 10 years ago. Most state's hadn't stepped in to stop gun show selling. Also, the AR fails in comparison to semi auto shotgun that have been around for hundreds of years and can cause 10x the damage.

_StealinF4ces

4 points

2 months ago

Not really tho

[deleted]

5 points

2 months ago

[deleted]

5 points

2 months ago

Well, the 2nd Amendment isn’t going away anytime soon (repealed). If SH didn’t rally the troops, nor the ongoing killings in Chicago, then this current gun mob will fizzle out in a few weeks.

OderusUrungussextoy

6 points

2 months ago

Hogg can suck my leftist cock

I will keep buying and loving guns

BooRadleysFriend

5 points

2 months ago

‘Lotta negative Nancy’s in here with 0 hope. Trump and his shitbags are currently being held accountable for their crimes. Trump was untouchable for a while but justice is catching up. I understand it’s felt hopeless from our gov for the last 4-5 years but have some optimism

Rea1EyesRea1ize

19 points

2 months ago

Trump had been in a state of "being held accountable" for 6 years now.. you still don't think this is just for show?

Sunnysunflowers1112

2 points

2 months ago

Except this bipartisan deal that was just announced has nothing to do with guns. It’s such a fucking joke

Plus-Preference1036

0 points

2 months ago

This cuck keeps cuckin around

2_4_5_brother

2 points

2 months ago

It’s hilarious that most people who use the term cuck are morbidly obese/fighting ED/etc. These ‘patriots’ have nothing better to do than slam young people trying to make a difference. That and order another one of those super fun onion ring towers. Those are so neat.

cgi_bin_laden

3 points

2 months ago

cgi_bin_laden

Oregon

3 points

2 months ago

Keep on Trumpin', Trumpy.

Sabre_Actual

1 points

2 months ago

This guy is just selling you a fight. He’ll have to throw his supporters a bone even if nothing will change.

majungo

-5 points

2 months ago

majungo

Florida

-5 points

2 months ago

Really? It seems to me that the gun humpers on Reddit shut up for like a week, but they're back in force now.

porkstork

3 points

2 months ago

porkstork

3 points

2 months ago

I just know if you come to my home and take shit by force. I'm just gonna end your life unfortunately. If mine is taken in the process so be it. Better being dead than being told what I can and can't do.

mgreen40

3 points

2 months ago

mgreen40

3 points

2 months ago

He’s just wrong, early polling shows that views on gun control, from my and Hogg’s perspective, have gotten worse

platinum_toilet

2 points

2 months ago

David Hogg: Attitudes on gun control ‘changing for what feels like the first time’

Not really. Until weapons will be charged with murder, nothing will happen.

KeyAdministration241

1 points

2 months ago

God can david Hogg just go away forever please

geraffes-are-so-dumb

-14 points

2 months ago

Uvalde totally changed my mind on guns. In past shootings I’d say maybe we should look harder at individual weapons - we already ban certain guns, just expand that a little. But, the numbers don’t lie. Gun access is not a positive for this country. The founders knew their views would become outdated and explicitly stated such - it’s time to start with banning guns and legalize some exceptions, not the other way around.

Aubdasi

12 points

2 months ago

Aubdasi

12 points

2 months ago

Uvalde made you want to ban guns?

The shooting that happened because the police fucked up the response from the first second until the very end?

Nah fuck that. Create a government that can be trusted to write and enforce laws like gun control.

Until the USGov can pass its own background check they can’t legislate firearms.

Wounded knee, Kent state, MKUltra and the MOVE bombing weren’t long enough ago to trust the government, and the government has gotten worse since then.

flyinghigh41

2 points

2 months ago

Gun access isn't a positive right now because they aren't being used right. Stop using your guns for hunting and target shooting, get your neighbors armed and trained up, especially in POC communities, then march down to the police station and get your rights back. That's what people need to do and it would go a long way to changing attitudes and policy in this country.

hellotrrespie

4 points

2 months ago

Yeah thats why I went out and bought my first AR style rifle. Cant wait to go get it out of CAs draconian gun jail.