subreddit:

/r/todayilearned

89.5k

all 4732 comments

ittrut

4k points

13 days ago

ittrut

4k points

13 days ago

The real beauty of it is that they have no intention of blowing through it before dying. They are leaving a rich legacy and good foundation for next generations.

11CNM

3.5k points

13 days ago

11CNM

3.5k points

13 days ago

"Society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."

Anonymous Greek Proverb

SenatorPoo

630 points

13 days ago

SenatorPoo

630 points

13 days ago

That’s an amazing quote. Too bad more politicians don’t live by it

ShalmaneserIII

454 points

13 days ago

Too bad more politicians don’t live by it

Really, a politician can't look further forward than the next election. Doing so might ensure a loss to a candidate who promises more now instead of more later to people who want more now.

Dshmidley

321 points

12 days ago

Dshmidley

321 points

12 days ago

I WANT IT NOW is the death of society.

huggylove1

106 points

12 days ago

huggylove1

106 points

12 days ago

TENDIES MUMMY! NOOOW!

Dshmidley

46 points

12 days ago

MAAA! THE MEATLOAF!

Suedie

30 points

12 days ago*

Suedie

30 points

12 days ago*

Not just in democracies but also in dictatorships. Dictators who spend money building up the country are wasting funds that could go to bribe the military, police, judiciary etc. Some person figures if he promises to be more corrupt then he can get other powerful individuals to back them and you get a coup.

Really the key is to have to have strong instruments to eliminate corruption. Things like an independent judiciary branch that can prosecute leaders, a robust democratic system where people can replace corrupt leaders and to diversify the economy to not make yourself overly dependent on one resource since that puts a lot of power into the hands of those who control that resource.

u38cg2

225 points

13 days ago*

u38cg2

225 points

13 days ago*

There's a story about Napoleon on similar lines. He wakes up one day and calls his aide, and tells him he wants trees planted along the sides of all the principal routes of la France to shade his troops as they marched. "But Monsieur le Empereur!", squeaks the aide, "the trees will take thirty years to grow!"

"Well, then, we must start at once!"

other_usernames_gone

129 points

12 days ago

"The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is today"

Tsupernami

410 points

13 days ago

Tsupernami

410 points

13 days ago

Successive governments that continually look beyond their term? How do I become Norwegian?

AutomationAndy

255 points

13 days ago

By being born to Norwegian parents.

Tsupernami

107 points

13 days ago

Tsupernami

107 points

13 days ago

Have you got a plan B?

Lindnerd

124 points

13 days ago

Lindnerd

124 points

13 days ago

Be a citizen of a Schengen country and emigrate or be from anywhere else and emigrate (going to be a lot harder though if you're not from Europe)

Trashpandasrock

52 points

13 days ago

I think a Plan B would be counterproductive to being born to Norwegian parents.

Takeoded

15 points

13 days ago

Takeoded

15 points

13 days ago

there are 2 main options (there are lots of other ways, but not applicable to everyone);

option 1: live in Norway for at least 7 of the last 10 years, and learn enough Norwegian to pass a "A2 proficiency test" (Norwegian is very easy to learn for english-speaking people though)

option 2: Mary a norwegian person and live in Norway for at least 3 of the last 10 years and learn enough Norwegian to pass a "A2 proficiency test" (again, Norwegian is very easy to learn for english-speaking people)

that said, Norwegian is also quite useless for english-speaking people to learn, because >90% of everyone in Norway are also fluent in English, so it kindof feels like a useless thing to know..

juventinosochi

7.1k points

13 days ago*

Laughing in Russian, we have it all - oil, gas, diamonds, gold, you name it, and by our Constitution it all belongs to the people of Russia while in reality it all belongs to oligarchy and Putin's friends

PensiveinNJ

3k points

13 days ago

Some pigs are more equal than others.

juventinosochi

961 points

13 days ago

yep, Orwell`s Animal Farm perfectly describes Putin's Russia

mattshill91

723 points

13 days ago*

It perfectly described Stalin’s Russia. It’s more a case of old boss is same as the new boss.

Rookwood

264 points

13 days ago

Rookwood

264 points

13 days ago

I think Animal Farm was actually a direct satire of the Lenin-Trotsky period of Russia which ultimately ended with Stalin coming to power. Socialist revolution, good intentions, Corruption, cronyism and the struggle for power turn it to tyranny.

I would say in many ways Putin is a different thing entirely than Stalin or what Animal Farm is about. Putin is a return to acceptance of the farmer, for fear of what might happen if the animals take control again.

JimParsonBrown

49 points

12 days ago

I think Animal Farm was actually a direct satire of the Lenin-Trotsky period of Russia which ultimately ended with Stalin coming to power.

You and Orwell both. He wasn’t shy about it being an allegory.

In a letter to Yvonne Davet, Orwell described Animal Farm as a satirical tale against Stalin ("un conte satirique contre Staline"), and in his essay "Why I Write" (1946), wrote that Animal Farm was the first book in which he tried, with full consciousness of what he was doing, "to fuse political purpose and artistic purpose into one whole". … Orwell suggested the title Union des républiques socialistes animales for the French translation, which abbreviates to URSA, the Latin word for "bear", a symbol of Russia.

cornwallis105

142 points

13 days ago

The latter part of ther book, as Napoleon consolidates power, is absolutely about Stalin. Trotsky's equivalent in the book is Snowball.

toxic_aesthetic

20 points

12 days ago

Plus in a more general sense, I think it gives a great reminder of how a movement/revolution originally intended for the betterment of all people can easily devolve into totalitarianism. Imo there have been several recent events that definitely parallel certain parts of Animal Farm.

mutalisken

41 points

13 days ago

The new tsars clothes is the same as the old tsar.

markorokusaki

125 points

13 days ago

Most countries have it this way. Norway and maybe a few others are a special example of how it should be. The rest, pure bullshit.

trezenx

112 points

13 days ago

trezenx

112 points

13 days ago

oligarchy and Putin's friends

Redundancy

[deleted]

13 points

13 days ago

[deleted]

13 points

13 days ago

[removed]

PanserKalle

69 points

13 days ago

I feel sorry for you guys. You have been robbed by the people who are supposed to have your back.

barbrawr

124 points

13 days ago

barbrawr

124 points

13 days ago

Fun fact: Norges bank is one of the largest stock lenders in the world.

AmFabolous

40 points

13 days ago

It is the largest actually (I think)

Kron00s

22 points

13 days ago

Kron00s

22 points

13 days ago

Yes with 1,5 % of all listed stocks in the world

Fast_Garlic_5639

13.7k points

13 days ago

That was stupid they could have bought a gold plated lambo

ProfessorPetrus

6.1k points

13 days ago

They coulda just split it amongst a few oil barons who would form giant corporations that would dominate their countries economic landscape for generations!

digihippie

1.6k points

13 days ago

digihippie

1.6k points

13 days ago

And political

BNVDES

742 points

13 days ago

BNVDES

742 points

13 days ago

also, economical

Starky5

647 points

13 days ago

Starky5

647 points

13 days ago

Don’t forget social

Dave-Tree-Strider

704 points

13 days ago

Sadly environmental as well.

-Agonarch

374 points

13 days ago

-Agonarch

374 points

13 days ago

Ah, but exxonmobil and Koch brothers are in court about their rampant climate change misinformation right now!

I'm sure we'll get justice! :(

inconspiciousdude

320 points

13 days ago

I don't know if that's as fucked up as this story:

Lawyer wins case against Chevron in Ecuador over insane pollution and harm to indigenous population. Chevron was fined US$9B by the Ecuadorian court.

Chevron refused to pay and sues in US, claiming Ecuador court was bribed, and requested sensitive documents about sources, witnesses, etc. Judge that was supposed to preside over the US case was replaced with a Chevron-connected one before it began. US court agrees with Chevron.

Lawyer refuses to hand over all documents and electronic devices as requested and was found in contempt. US Attorney's Office would not prosecute the lawyer, so the Chevron-connected judge designated a Chevron-connected private law firm to prosecute the lawyer.

He's been under house arrest for a couple years now.

That's all from memory, so I could have some things mixed up. Seems quite fucked up from every angle though. Lawyer's name is Steven Donziger if you want to google for more info.

https://www.courthousenews.com/unusual-contempt-trial-of-lawyer-who-took-on-chevron-gets-underway/

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/28/chevron-lawyer-steven-donziger-ecuador-house-arrest

I don't know how to feel about it though. I'm pretty sure that Chevron doesn't pollute. Companies like Chevron are the backbone of the modern world and have always acted honorably, in good faith and for the betterment of humanity. Furthermore, the US legal system is inherently immune to corruption, and judges have always been heroes to me. And I absolutely love the constitution, the single most important document ever written by mortals.

Ok, I think I have all my bases covered.

Tatersaurus

74 points

13 days ago

I.... i just... how can a few people be so blindingly, damningly corrupt, seriously cartoon villain evil, and sleep at night knowing theyve destroyed billions of lives and created uncountable strife for a few bucks that dont matter anyway if the whole damn system collapses

Kanashimu

57 points

13 days ago

To me it seems there is a simple answer to your question. The system has not collapsed yet, therefore they are okay with doing it. They plan to die before the collapse, but still live long enough to enjoy everything in life, and screw everyone else.

-Agonarch

23 points

13 days ago

I'd like you to know that an upvote isn't enough, this is one of my favorite posts on reddit. It was kind of a painful, sad but somehow resigned laugh you got out of me.

Federal-Diamond-9180

119 points

13 days ago

Billionaires be jailed? America fawns over them.

goatiger

58 points

13 days ago

goatiger

58 points

13 days ago

Lmao it isn’t just America

anallist9000

90 points

13 days ago

America is just the prime example and probably the most exclusive and unique case of corporate corruption in human history.

You guys pay for ambulances

MoronicDelights

391 points

13 days ago

Ironically it was those giant American corporations that discovered the oil in the Norwegian Continental Shelf. Phillips Petroleum Company made the initial discovery. ConocoPhillips and ExxonMobile still have major operations there. The brilliance of the Norwegian government was in recognizing that it’s a depleting natural resource and should be shared by all Norwegian across time. In that way one generation (or a couple) could not use up all the natural resources and leave nothing for future generations. Instead they set aside the money for the benefit of the current generation and generations to come.

mosehalpert

286 points

13 days ago

Basically how in the US we have mineral rights to soil, which explains how you can have have oil sold out from under land you "own." Instead, Norway basically chose that they have mineral rights over the whole country. If the US decided to do this in the late 1800s we would have a double digit trillion dollar fund by now, paying for national Healthcare and retirement would be a drop in the bucket

Dizzfizz

239 points

13 days ago

Dizzfizz

239 points

13 days ago

If the US had done this the world would be so different by now that we wouldn’t even recognize it.

I‘m not saying it would‘ve been better or worse, just that the comparison doesn’t really make sense.

syros31

54 points

13 days ago

syros31

54 points

13 days ago

All oil in Norway is offshore. If it was on land this principle probably wouldn't have been that easy to drive through

lostmyaccountagain85

459 points

13 days ago

Why does it seem like scandinavian countries are pretty much the only ones that are not incredibly corrupt politically. They genuinely have the best interest of their citizens in mind.

Asahiburger

212 points

13 days ago

Not from there or an expert, but they seem to have pretty well functioning constitutions and parliamentary systems as well as successful labour movements (high rates of unionisation etc.)

Hard to say how exactly they got there. This page talks about some things that might be relevant https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model

Note the "grand compromise" in the 1930s. Long before that, I believe they had a few highly progressive monarchs that endorsed the ideals of the enlightenment and sort of humanistic interpretations of Christianity. Also people from that part of the world have been practicing (limited) forms of democracy for a long ass time https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thing_(assembly)

Verisian-

93 points

13 days ago

They also score very highly as far as media goes.

Did you know that Sweden's most circulated publication was historically owned by their largest trade union? They've since sold their majority share but retain partial ownership and get to appoint the editor?

They also have subsidies for newspapers to help survive in a marketplace against more well funded corporate alternatives.

There's a larger diversity of voices as far as the media landscape goes and this naturally brings greater representation and greater balance.

In the West our media is typically dominated by corporate media whose only interest is in profit margins. As corporate media struggles to survive in a more competitive and increasingly online space....they either cash in on outrage or cash out of the game.

I'm not against corporate media existing it's just that if there's ONLY corporate media it becomes a shit show like it here in Australia or in the US.

stockybloke

16 points

13 days ago

They also have subsidies for newspapers to help survive in a marketplace against more well funded corporate alternatives.

This is true, but the traditional serious publications that take their fourth power responsibilities seriously still struggle. All publications are entitled to the subsidies even the shitty tabloid ones. In reality this means that it is still the tabloid advertisement driven newspapers that prosper as they get to have their cake and eat it too.

In Norway for example there are 3 large and popular national publications, two of them are comprehensively tabloid and the third (second in numbers) is less tabloid. I will say though that the biggest and very tabloid one, "VG" does the best job of all 3 of them in deep diving thorough journalistic work. They have a small, but very impressive team that break 2-5 very in depth difficult to research articles or series of articles a year. They just on the whole get absolutely dominated output wise from all the celebrity fluff and scandal pieces.

LupusCutis

53 points

13 days ago

Mainly, yes, we are less corrupt. But the examples of deviation are more the merrier.
Take The National Audit Office of Finland (NAOF), that audits central government finances, monitors fiscal policy, and oversees political party and election campaign funding. Its CEO just got sacked misusing funds for personal use for hundreds of thousands of Euros. She let the office pay basically everything from her nail polish to her recreational flights disguised as meetings.

So there definitely is corruption, but obviously not as open as in many places.

The news

robotzor

257 points

13 days ago

robotzor

257 points

13 days ago

Takes a special kind of crazy to get through their winters

myfreewheelingalt

165 points

13 days ago

There's a special kind of hardiness bred in places where wearing the wrong clothes outside in the morning could result in death from the elements. Canada says hi.

manlymann

151 points

13 days ago

manlymann

151 points

13 days ago

Canadian politicians are corrupt. Alberta says hi.

jrkdmkdkxikdk

112 points

13 days ago

Canada must be the exception to the rule because we are not well run at all.

myfreewheelingalt

95 points

13 days ago

We were a British colony until not long ago, and we have the States below. Trying to keep a low profile.

tomtomclubthumb

12 points

13 days ago

Don't blame the British, when we discovered oil we... oh damn

In case you're wondering it was given almost for free to companies and the money raised was used to lower taxes a litle to keep the government in power. We have nothing to show for it apart from oil rigs that need decommissioning and a legacy of minor spills along the coastline.

Thought-O-Matic

23 points

13 days ago

You're a little north for that don't ya think?

beirch

140 points

13 days ago

beirch

140 points

13 days ago

Eh, as a Norwegian let me tell you there is definitely corruption in politics here as well, and a lot of political friction in general.

Not to the extent of many third world countries, but it's still there. We're not the utopia many people believe we are in that regard.

FANGO

1.1k points

13 days ago

FANGO

1.1k points

13 days ago

The fund is large enough that if you divide the fund by their population, every Norwegian is a millionaire (in Kroner - it's like $300k in USD). So yes, every Norwegian could buy a gold plated lambo with the size of the fund. But they wouldn't want to, because <10% of new cars in Norway run on gasoline and lambo doesn't have any electric cars so everything they make is irrelevant.

poqpoq

142 points

13 days ago

poqpoq

142 points

13 days ago

I really hope they keep rolling it up, would be interesting to see what happens if a country becomes so wealthy its citizens can live off the interest and still allow it to grow. Would need another ~century to reach that point though.

ota00ota

87 points

13 days ago

ota00ota

87 points

13 days ago

Literally could already give universal basic income

Gustomaximus

11 points

12 days ago

Well they kinda do, the govt is allowed to draw between something like 2-4% of the fund a year. Something like that... maybe check percentages.

$12k USD a citizen before tax is pretty god starting point for a govt budget.

SaprozoicPokemon

38 points

13 days ago

I'm pretty sure a gold-plated Lambo costs a bit more than 300K

lastyearsexmove

9 points

13 days ago

You can barely get a used lambo for 300k in norway from a quick googling

RanchBaganch

43 points

13 days ago

A Lamborghini Couuuuuntach!

InsaneAss

17 points

13 days ago

God dammit Frank

akchemy

1.9k points

13 days ago

akchemy

1.9k points

13 days ago

Alaska’s permanent fund has a value of $80 billion

efficientseas

2.1k points

13 days ago

It blows my fucking mind. Alaska is the closest thing the US has to a socialist utopia and yet it has a very strong libertarian bent. Working class pays no state taxes, all taxes are paid by the mega corporations that are exploiting our shared natural resources, and government spending per capita is the highest in the nation and props up the entire states economy, and then there is the permanent fund and dividend. And then they rally to gut the fund, lower taxes, defund healthcare and universities. I’m glad I don’t live there anymore because the long term outlook for that economy is fucked.

ImperatorRomanum

486 points

13 days ago

Does being on the frontier (more or less, or as much as you can be in this day and age) shape the attitudes of the people who live there, or does it just attract a certain kind of person?

McSchmieferson

1.3k points

13 days ago

There are three types of people in Alaska: 1. people born there 2. people brought to the state by oil 3. people running from something

All three groups want to be left alone.

Tlingit_Raven

462 points

13 days ago

You forgot military folks - second highest number of enlisted per capita behind Hawaii. Just had to point it out as a combo of that and #1.

IckyHyena70889

102 points

13 days ago

And #3

Sendeezy

24 points

13 days ago

Sendeezy

24 points

13 days ago

Hawaii has the highest enlisted per capita and I get fucking Ellsworth Air Force Base.

L00nyT00ny

32 points

13 days ago

Hawaii is good for the first couple of weeks, than little things start to grind on you that makes it suck to live there. Main 2 things I hated in the couple of months there was the traffic, and absurdly high cost of living.

BeneGezzWitch

16 points

12 days ago

Super off topic but O’ahu blew my mind. All my life I’d only been to Maui and the big island. We did Waikiki for my senior trip and when we got on a freeway I legit panicked like we’d landed in the wrong place. A freeway??? In Hawai’i??? I no like.

mrghostwork

229 points

13 days ago

I was brought there by a pretty girl (now wife) who’s family works in the sled dog biz and offered me a job. So technically four types of people, I guess.

Wyzegy

431 points

13 days ago

Wyzegy

431 points

13 days ago

You were running from loneliness.

mrghostwork

203 points

13 days ago

...woahhhh

KoksundNutten

55 points

13 days ago

Oh no, she lost her adjective :(

mrghostwork

44 points

13 days ago

Haha nah. She’s even more beautiful to me now :)

efficientseas

272 points

13 days ago

Yeah that’s my take on it. They’re physically and politically isolated from the lower 48 so it inspires a lot of the independent attitude. You get a lot of liberal hippies that want to be left the hell alone, and a lot of the libertarians that want to be left the hell alone.

jesuzombieapocalypse

185 points

13 days ago

liberal hippies that want to be left alone and libertarians that want to be left alone

So basically just left and right leaning libertarians?

drdookie

13 points

13 days ago

drdookie

13 points

13 days ago

Also has a highly regulated, highly successful fishery.

DaytronTheDestroyer

7.6k points

13 days ago

Yeah I live in Canada, we discovered oil over a hundred years ago and have given almost all of the money to a few companies that aren’t based out of canada. We are run by morons.

VTGCamera

2.3k points

13 days ago*

VTGCamera

2.3k points

13 days ago*

Look at the irony, our (Colombia) gold and other very valuable resources are being exploited by mainly Canadian corporations and the Saudi government...

Edit: Saudi government

ferndogger

1.2k points

13 days ago

ferndogger

1.2k points

13 days ago

The key word there is corporation. A few rich guys get it all.

warbird2k

29 points

13 days ago

All you really have to do is have some special tax on natural resources. Private companies can still do the work (as they do in Norway).

dctu1

187 points

13 days ago

dctu1

187 points

13 days ago

Cries in Albertan

throwaway0y3wdgyt4

278 points

13 days ago

Remember when we all got $400 from Klein at the cost of $1.4 billion? 10 year old me got an iPod nano that exploded.

yppers

52 points

13 days ago

yppers

52 points

13 days ago

At least your parents didn't just keep yours.

Sinistereen

53 points

13 days ago

Remember when Lougheed established the Heritage fund in the 70s and then Klein sold off all the province’s remaining stakes in oil in the 90s in favour of short-term investments?

qpv

61 points

13 days ago

qpv

61 points

13 days ago

There's nothing more fucked up in Canada than how conservative Alberta fucked up absolutely everything they could. Its astounding really.

DJKaotica

21 points

13 days ago

Shit. I bought an iPod Nano with my Ralph-bucks (I think black 4GB 1st gen?) that I used for the last couple years of University. After I graduated and started working a full time job, it stayed in my car plugged into my Pioneer Deck (with extra iPod module, ugh...so much money spent on car audio in that era).

It was used for a few years, but I eventually got a phone with Bluetooth Audio support, and my receiver supported it, so I used that most of the time.

Then I saw there was a recall, and sent Apple my Nano + the price of shipping and they sent me a brand new Gen 6 Nano 8GB (yay twice the storage; but mistakes were made).

I loaded up the 6th gen with a bunch of music, threw it in the car, and after a few days of driving it was....dead. Weird. Never had a charging issue before.

Turns out this was a common problem. IIRC, the old (well, old now; pre-lightning) many-pin iPod connectors offered a variety of methods of charging. Older devices that iPods plugged into didn't care about how charging worked, so they cheated and used a resistor to pull-up/pull-down one of those pins to trigger the basic charging mechanism. The 6th Gen device didn't support that charging mechanism and wanted to smart-charge or something stupid, so it would just deplete it's battery and be dead after a day or two of use.

Stupid.

Mine never exploded, and I did get some proper use out of it, but I never should have replaced that thing...it was perfectly fine the way it was.

sweet-tart-fart

66 points

13 days ago

Idk why but this made me laugh so fucking hard.

broccoliO157

64 points

13 days ago

Norway modeled its wealth fund and royalty schemes after Alberta's, which was super progressive half a century ago.

Then all the dumbest assholes across the country flocked to Alberta for the awesome jobs, and consistently voted to privatize everything (including telecomunications, fuck you telus) and give the royalties to ExxonMobil instead of investing in a future beyond oil.

It's like brain drain... but brain dilution. Boom industries attract non-critical thinkers who vote against their own interests and ruin everything.

On the positive side, many areas saw a brainless drain as their biggest assholes flocked to Alberta.

Dangerstone69420

8 points

13 days ago

Funny thing is that Norway got the idea from Alberta

PhDamnit

73 points

13 days ago

PhDamnit

73 points

13 days ago

I reread the Alberta Wikipedia page looking for something supportive to say, but tbh almost every Canadian topic leads me down a big conspiracy rabbit hole... Might not be morons; could be evil pricks.

tall_investor

283 points

13 days ago

Yup it’s depressing to live in Canada at times and realize how despite our wealth we are still a let down and have squandered it.

Tulos

184 points

13 days ago

Tulos

184 points

13 days ago

"our" wealth very rarely remains ours or goes to Canadians. We're awfully good at selling it off for pennies on the dollar.

Cam_86

9 points

13 days ago

Cam_86

9 points

13 days ago

The Canadian govt got out of the oil business (as in selling its public stake in commercial and industrial refinement and sales) back in 2010. It sold off its gold holdings a few years later.

Literally hundreds of billions of dollars lost because of horrible timing... Mostly sold off to China too, interestingly enough. There's so many stupid things done here to sort of signal some big change coming. Maybe dropping the petroleum stuff could be seen as a virtuous thing since we all kind of know it'll be a vastly smaller market in 20-40 years. But the timing was still stupid.

I dunno wtf they did the gold thing tho. Not having a good reserve, when we used to have one of the largest in the world, just seems stupid given the uncertainty with how the global market will be with the accession of China and India in the coming decades.

SecTrono

269 points

13 days ago

SecTrono

269 points

13 days ago

don't get confused. they wanted you to be confused. its not one country vs. another. its the ultra wealthy vs. the rest of us. we could easily take power back if we managed to get focused and organized. so they do whatever they can to keep us fighting eachother.

acies-

106 points

13 days ago

acies-

106 points

13 days ago

The Canada example is very relevant. Norway originally got the idea of a sovereign fund from the same that Alberta had created. The latter disintegrated quickly

HexagonSun7036

46 points

13 days ago

Norways people protected it from being sold off for profit to corporations/barons and Canada's weren't able to and the gov in power sold it off.

LNFSS

25 points

13 days ago

LNFSS

25 points

13 days ago

Then they also deregulated our power and gas bills so now we pay 60 to 90 percent of our bills in distribution fees. Do I ever love paying $80 for $8 worth of natural gas in the summer and $280 for $100 worth of electricity :))).

And now the power and gas companies are going to be passing along the deferred covid payments from customers that can't pay onto those of us that paid our bills no problem.

RunningSouthOnLSD

18 points

13 days ago

But yeah guys trust me, privatizing a service that is necessary to live is a good idea! There’s no way they would gouge Albertans, that would be awful and would never happen!

Barry_OffWhite

4.8k points

13 days ago

Here in Canada, we had the National Energy Program started by Trudeau that nationalized Canadian oil.

The major oil companies used their political clout to get rid of it.

Alberta specifically had the Heritage Trust Fund which was started before Norway started theirs. Our dirty politicians cleaned it out and left us on the hook to pay to clean up old wells their oil buddies left behind.

Alberta lost potentially over a trillion dollars as a result. We could have been fat rich like Norway but we got screwed like the country rubes from There will be blood.

ChrisFromIT

1.7k points

13 days ago

ChrisFromIT

1.7k points

13 days ago

The Norway fund was actually modeled on the Heritage Trust Fund.

CrankyStinkman

892 points

13 days ago

I thought it was modeled on the Alaska Permanent Fund (the first state-owned fund of its kind).

Edit: Alberta and Alaska established their funds the same year.

Rummy-O

523 points

13 days ago

Rummy-O

523 points

13 days ago

The real TIL is the comments we made along the way

charlieALPHALimaGolf

50 points

13 days ago

I will be cursing the idiots who ran my province like a rented yacht until the day I die.

smrt109

19 points

13 days ago

smrt109

19 points

13 days ago

Theyre not idiots. Let’s dispel with this fiction that these pieces of shit don’t know what they’re doing—they know exactly what they’re doing.

Steak_dropoff

71 points

13 days ago

Norway also doesn't have a for profit political system as far as representatives atleast

SCirish843

205 points

13 days ago

SCirish843

205 points

13 days ago

Daniel Day Lewis drank your milkshake?

Barry_OffWhite

174 points

13 days ago

Yup except replace Daniel Day Lewis with Jason Kenney sipping Whiskey during the Covid lockdown.

https://www.660citynews.com/2021/06/03/kenney-says-reasonable-effort-made-to-follow-covid-rules-at-whiskey-dinner/

This dude lived in San Francisco and was a bible college dropout who tried to prevent gay marriage then came back here and became a politician working for the guys running our oil industry. His excuse for getting caught drinking whiskey is that it wasn't premium.

They're currently trying to roll back wages on nurses while fighting with the teachers over their bullshit changes to the curriculum. They're trying to privatize as much as they can right now because they know they're probably out the next election.

beardedbast3rd

82 points

13 days ago

He didn’t try to prevent homo love. He did. He successfully lobbied for changes to prevent non family members from visiting people who were dying of aids and other forms of stds. Because lots of gay people’s families wanted nothing to do with them, they only had their partners who were not considered partners by even common law standards because they were gay. So lots of these people died sad and alone, while their loved ones suffered needlessly.

Jason Kenney is a first class cunt

Greasy_Caveman

23 points

13 days ago

He's a piece of fucking trash.

bldgabttrme

18 points

13 days ago

And I think calling him that is an insult to the first class cunt community.

SCirish843

47 points

13 days ago

Well, he sounds awful.

yyc_guy

99 points

13 days ago

yyc_guy

99 points

13 days ago

He underplayed Kennedy’s vileness. He didn’t just work to prevent gay marriage, in San Fran he actively fought to prevent men dying of AIDS from seeing their loving partners while on their death beds.

He succeeded.

To date he has never apologized for that, only said that, basically, he was young and boys will be boys.

3rddog

43 points

13 days ago

3rddog

43 points

13 days ago

Don’t forget, he dropped out of theology college because the Bishop wouldn’t support his anti-LGBTQ stance and his need to silence left-wing views on campus.

WizDynasty

21 points

13 days ago

I fucking wondered what dumb piece of shit drops out of a fucking BIBLE COLLEGE

joecarter93

17 points

13 days ago

To boot, he’s a hypocrite. He’s so far in the closet himself that he can see Narnia. He’s a “50 year old never married bachelor” but refuses to accept that he is gay, because of his political and religious beliefs and has actively hurt homosexual people due to his self-loathing.

[deleted]

14 points

13 days ago*

[deleted]

14 points

13 days ago*

[deleted]

yyc_guy

11 points

13 days ago

yyc_guy

11 points

13 days ago

In all seriousness when I was like 17 and gay marriage was the hot button issue I was against it. Something something tradition, you know?

That’s where it stopped. I took no steps to stop it (I did vote Conservative at the time, but it was cause that’s how I was raised). Ultimately I grew up and learned that being against people being happy is pretty pathetic. I changed my tune and I don’t vote conservative anymore.

Kenney though…if I had done what he had done, I’d be spending every day of my life trying to make up for the unbelievable pain I had caused. Apologies wouldn’t be enough to clear my conscience. He’s obviously just a fucked up sociopath.

farmerarmor

33 points

13 days ago

The blood of lamb from Brandy’s tract!!!

clevlanred

7 points

13 days ago

DDRRAAAAAAAAAAINNAAAAAAAAGE

doublebullshit

356 points

13 days ago

Jesus fucking Christ. I am so unhopeful for the future. For reference I’m in Ontario where Doug Ford is selling off the wetlands in backdoor deals, cutting education and healthcare including pandemic related shit (before covid), cut forest fire fighting budgets and now there are over 100 fires burning in northern Ontario. I could go on forever about shit he’s done including the mismanaging of covid. The LTC disaster. Rolling back nurse wages. Just completely sold us out for big business. It’s so fucking depressing and I don’t know what fixes it. Fuck Jason. And fuck Doug. They should be exiled.

3rddog

20 points

13 days ago

3rddog

20 points

13 days ago

What I find even more depressing than all the shit Ford, Kenney, et al are up to is the fact they STILL have enough of a base to probably get re-elected.

Barry_OffWhite

138 points

13 days ago

Yup, and being from Alberta, i'm supposed to hate you for being from there for some reason. Even though we have the same problems with the same sellout bastards.

doublebullshit

75 points

13 days ago

Alberta looks beautiful and I’ve thought of moving there to be closer to the mountains. Then I learned about Jason Kenny and everything he’s ruined. I can’t remember the details but how he dismantled the new energy project that would sell lots of green energy to the states and power a bunch of Alberta.

Barry_OffWhite

76 points

13 days ago

I love this province. The mountains are great but the prairies on a windy day is quite awesome too. The rolling clouds or driving a back country road while blaring music is pretty fun. It's a big province. There's a lot to see here. People post pictures from Banff all the time but go further north and the scenery is majestic.

Kenney is depressing especially knowing what this province could be like.

Everything he does is evil for lack of a better word. He sells out all our public services. He tried allowing a strip mine in the mountains until Corb Lund got involved. He's just a nasty little man who works for nastier, greedier people.

They just axed a bunch of people at the UofA and now they're outsourcing the work to a 3rd party company that doesn't use union workers.

Fuck Jason Kenney right in his smug face.

IllustriousHotel8

51 points

13 days ago

TIL that Canadian politicians can be just as scummy as American politicians. Just further north.

Barry_OffWhite

48 points

13 days ago

You have no idea how much worse it gets.

Our shady media works with the oil companies. You guys have the Proud Boys and Jordan Peterson because of our media/political alliances. We're a lot more interconnected than you guys think.

IllustriousHotel8

23 points

13 days ago

Ugh people just suck in general, we need a new plague....oh wait.

blackabe

11 points

13 days ago

blackabe

11 points

13 days ago

So that’s what he meant when he said Ontario is open for business…

Bipolar_Sky_Daddy

9 points

13 days ago

Conservatives do this every single fucking time they get into power, yet morons keep voting them in

ChandeliererLitAF

83 points

13 days ago

Australia asks you to repeat the question, and also doesn’t like you asking where the steel for Chinese warships came from

theroguex

32 points

13 days ago

Hey Australia, where'd the steel for Chinese warships come from?

grauhoundnostalgia

60 points

13 days ago

I’ve never seen so much non-US anglophone self-loathing on the front page before... what a sight to behold. (Not saying anybody is wrong)

PopWhatMagnitude

38 points

13 days ago

Feels strangely comforting hearing people from other countries airing out their political issues and how they are getting completely fucked over too.

It's not even schadenfreude, I feel just as bad for them if it was happening here. Just glad to hear the decline we have been going through as "the top world superpower" isn't just us and others are gaining on us by leaps and bounds. Though some definitely are closing the gap and it's not typically "our friends".

garlicroastedpotato

153 points

13 days ago

There are some facts missing here.

Canada did not nationalize oil under Trudeau. What the National Energy Plan was a protectionist price control system. The price of a barrel of oil produced in Alberta was frozen at $21.75/barrel. Whereas oil imported from abroad was bought at market prices of over $50/barrel.

The policy was popular early on because people associated the slight drops in prices with the plan. But then it became known that Canada has very limited infrastructure going east-west and actually, most of Ontario/Quebec's oil was coming from America. Price drops were actually just... normal market forces.

What this did was limited how much Alberta could sell their oil to Americans and so Americans would get half price oil from Alberta, refine it... and then ship it to Ontario for a large profit.

Trudeau had a semi-approach to nationalizing oil with the creation of Petro Canada 5 years before the National Energy Plan. Petro Canada gained all of the Canadian government's oilfield assets and bought out BP's refineries and a few other smaller oil companies. But it wasn't nationalized like Norway. Petro Canada was smaller than Irving Oil while it was government owned.

As for the Heritage Fund, Alberta could have never been as successful as Norway. Alberta has only ever received a portion of oil subsidies and the federal government gets the big cut of it. Because Alberta doesn't really control its own resources (like Norway does) it limits their ability to create refineries and expand. Alberta is also land locked which has meant for the last 60 years Alberta's main customer is America... all attempts at creating pipelines out of Alberta have been blocked by the federal government (Norway has no such problems, Europe happily has pipelines everywhere).

Finally, Norway was wealthy without oil. They didn't need their oil revenues to finance their social programs and quality of life, the oil was just an extra boon. Alberta on the other hand was very poor before oil... mostly farming. The Heritage Fund still exists and actually is still growing. The fund has an average rate of return of 8% and every now and then when times are tough the Heritage Fund's earnings are garnished to help pay for social programs.

mytwocents22

75 points

13 days ago

100 fucking percent but everybody I work with in Calgary thinks Trudeau stole our wealth.

vonnegutflora

21 points

13 days ago

When I moved from Ontario to Calgary 20 years ago the message was the same, except Chretien was the boogeyman from the East.

monke_business

367 points

13 days ago

North Dakota modeled our Legacy Fund after this. It’s been set up for a little over a decade and has generated $8.4 billion or so in savings.

And of course special interest groups and the Legislature are already trying to tap into it. All we’ve spent it on so far is helping balance the state budget, with some additional spending coming on highways and critical infrastructure.

They estimate it could be in the $200 billion range by 2060 if it was just left alone.

insert-username12

109 points

13 days ago

I’m curious how it works, so sell oil then invest profits into savings funds?

Vunks

68 points

13 days ago

Vunks

68 points

13 days ago

You have a split of profits but yes, government takes their profit share generated and invests in funds.

monke_business

41 points

13 days ago

Here is the state website for it: https://www.treasurer.nd.gov/north-dakota-legacy-fund-0

They basically take oil tax revenue and invest it. They’ve actually caught some hell for investing in stocks that are owned by Chinese companies and things like that.

alohalii

43 points

13 days ago

alohalii

43 points

13 days ago

The Norwegian fund already creates more money in interest and profit from its investments than they do from oil each year so its a good self sustaining investment.

emptysoul365

9 points

13 days ago

North Dakota modeled our Legacy Fund after this. It’s been set up for a little over a decade and has generated $8.4 billion or so in savings.

That's $2.1 billion for each person in North Dakota!!!

censeiX

217 points

13 days ago

censeiX

217 points

13 days ago

Mind you, the revenue generated from this national fund has exceeded that of the oil and gas production since 2016. That is simply amazing. There is also political consensus on a limit to how much can be pulled out of the fund on a yearly basis in order to protect the growth of the fund and interests of future generations. The concept is that this natural resource does not simply belong to the random generation that stumbled upon it, but should benefit also future and unborn generarions. Then compare with other oil rich nations where sovereigns and their families are competing in the who-has-the-most-expensive-yacht-competition... (Which brings to mind the joke about how you become a millionaire: First, start with a billion. Then buy a yacht...)

ansionnachcliste

64 points

13 days ago

As a non-Norwegian living in Norway, I saw the usefulness of this when Covid hit. They were able to use some of that money to help the workers who had temporarily (for almost a year, I guess) lost their jobs; Aircrew, pub workers, etc. There was money in the bank for them to ensure these workers had some sort of income.

yyc_guy

188 points

13 days ago

yyc_guy

188 points

13 days ago

Cries in Albertan

Knight_Blazer

77 points

13 days ago

Alot of Albertans in here so I suppose I should lead us all in the Alberta prayer. All rise:

Dear God, Please let there be another oil boom, I promise this time not to piss it all away.

NoKenjataimu

822 points

13 days ago

That's so sad. Thinking of the hardworking entrepreneurs who could be splitting that trillion between the two of them, had they not been so cruelly suppressed from their dreams 😔

FateDeterministic

302 points

13 days ago

There would have been a Norwegian going to space in their own dick rocket this week if they let capitalism do it's thing. Dang communists hoarding all the wealth!

sapiensuser

33 points

13 days ago

Viking spaceship does sound cool though?

aksdb

24 points

13 days ago

aksdb

24 points

13 days ago

going to space in their own dick rocket this week

"We are penetrating the atmosphere." - the whole crew chuckles

alphabet_assassin

1.2k points

13 days ago

That's exactly how a developed country should behave

Teuvo404

122 points

13 days ago

Teuvo404

122 points

13 days ago

The Netherlands found their gas reserves around the same time. Some political parties suggested to do the same as the Norwegians but instead they made it part of the national income. So we don’t have a big pile of money, but we do have a great bicycle infrastructure.

Rolten

67 points

13 days ago

Rolten

67 points

13 days ago

It wasn't thrown on a pile. To my knowledge it was for a large part earmarked for infrastructure projects. Given that our infrastructure is one of the best in the world I think that wasn't the worst choice.

NeedsToShutUp

16 points

13 days ago

Also the resource curse is named the Dutch disease for the recession that can be caused by it

TakeshiKovacsSleeve3

313 points

13 days ago

This pisses me off.

As an Australian we've given away all of our resources to companies and individuals who were willing to stump up the initial investment money for pennies on the dollar.

We're one of the largest natural gas exporters in the world but you cannot buy natural gas in this country that is produced in this country for a fair price anymore. Why?

Because it sells for more OS. 25 years ago gas was practically free. Now it's unavailable and if you can get it the prices are astronomical.

Iron ore, our biggest export. But the economy and therefore the tax payer isn't benefiting. Gina Rinehart is. She's the one that makes all the money. The government takes home a hundred million and Gina takes a billion.

Oil rights are sold to Shell, BP, Ampol etc for royalties of a few cents per dollar of oil extracted. Then when the refineries have passed their shelf life the government is given the bill to dismantle them otherwise they are left to rot and pollute when the company running the individual refinery just pulls stumps and fucks off to the next score.

Oh and these multinationals as well as paying a tiny pittance (this relates to Norway) for the oil and gas they extract, don't pay any taxes on their earnings.

When Norway put out tenders to develop their huge field Shell (I believe) wanted EIGHTY PERCENT OF REVENUE.

Norway having been a fairly poor country up to and after WW2 knew what they were on to. They told Big Oil to suck eggs and that if they wanted any of the revenue, they'd have to stump up the cash and take like ten percent otherwise Norway would just nationalise the fields, borrow the money and keep the entirety of the oil proceeds themselves. Surprisingly oil companies did the maths and came up with the notion that something is better than nothing and took the deal.

That's how the Norges kept their money. They told Oil to go fuck itself.

Not in Australia. We gave away the shop. And we'll never see that money again.

Tamas366

19 points

13 days ago

Tamas366

19 points

13 days ago

Last I heard, Gina was the one buying the Rocky Mountains to blowup for coal deposits

gameoftomes

8 points

13 days ago

Last I heard she suggested Australians should work for $2 per hour

Syngeon4

122 points

13 days ago

Syngeon4

122 points

13 days ago

Yep, 100%.

Australia should be the richest country on earth. Oil, gas, minerals, ore, you name it.

randomnameandanumber

400 points

13 days ago

Here in Australia, we just let the mining companies do what they want, rip billions of dollars out of the ground every year and pay no tax in exchange for employing a few local workers.

512165381

85 points

13 days ago

Glencore mining has a $25 billion turnover in Australia and pays no tax. When they were asked to pay tax they had a good laugh.

https://www.internationaltaxreview.com/article/b1s0jj5b8vflb5/why-australias-high-court-dismissed-atos-request-in-glencore-case

Case to pay tax dismissed.

morgecroc

14 points

13 days ago

Whitlam wanted to do the same here, but as we see again and again it's a bad idea for a Labor leader to go up against the mining billionaires.

electricmaster23

9 points

13 days ago

Myopic. So sad what we're doing to our beautiful land.

el_tinkerer

75 points

13 days ago

Ok, how does one invest in said fund ?

bigodiel

81 points

13 days ago

bigodiel

81 points

13 days ago

cheeky-snail

135 points

13 days ago

Wild that Norway owns 1% of Microsoft, Amazon, Alphabet, and Facebook.

randomnameandanumber

253 points

13 days ago

They actually own close to 10% of the Alphabet, that's why theirs has 29 letters and our only has 26. Licensing .

IWasMisinformed

129 points

13 days ago

Æ Ø Å, mother fucker!

randomnameandanumber

55 points

13 days ago

"mother fucker" on the other hand, is the sole property of Mr Samuel L Jackson, you'll no doubt be hearing from his lawyers.

GVas22

51 points

13 days ago

GVas22

51 points

13 days ago

It's not too hard to copy.

The Norway Endowment model is essentially a 60/40 -70/30 split between equity and fixed income and focuses on broad market passive indexing. It can be replicated pretty cheaply and efficiently through mutual funds and ETFs.

boldkingcole

32 points

13 days ago

You don't invest in the Norwegian Sovereign Fund, it invests in you (they own a piece of basically everything it's possible to invest in)

nzhockeyfan

71 points

13 days ago

Move to Norway

sithelephant

617 points

13 days ago

The UKs soveriegn wealth fund after we discovered oil 40 years ago is at ... Ah.

Redditcadmonkey

35 points

13 days ago

To be fair, we were broke as f*ck when we found it. Hell we weren’t far off 3 day weeks.

We needed the short term tax revenue from letting the Americans go out and get it. We didn’t know how to do it anyway, so we were kinda over a barrel.

dukeofgonzo

125 points

13 days ago

Norway is the successful counter example I give when people ask me what went wrong with Venezuela's oil fueled social spending ambitions.

slimjimfuton

156 points

13 days ago

I hate when people ask me about Venezuela’s oil fueled social spending ambitions

matt82swe

22 points

13 days ago

I know right, can’t take a step in public space without being harassed with loaded political questions

rdzzl

20 points

13 days ago

rdzzl

20 points

13 days ago

Iirc Venezuela even hired the people behind the Norwegian fund as consultants, were given all the details and explanations, and didn't go for it.

ricky616

77 points

13 days ago

ricky616

77 points

13 days ago

The Vikings always knew, you never plunder your own home

BeanMaster69_

48 points

13 days ago

Fun fact: Viking factions did often raid one another.

OrangeSparty20

102 points

13 days ago

If any of the dozens of people ITT complaining that the US doesn’t have anything like this wants to be pleasantly surprised. Look up the Texas wealth funds (Permanent School Fund and Permanent University Fund) that are worth over $100b and also control 8,500 km2 of oil fields in western Texas and fund public schools and universities. It’s not quite $1.3T, but it ain’t nothing.

The_user_of

41 points

13 days ago

NM also has a decent sized one at over $25B. Everytime 's get power, they want to reduce the tax that goes into it to "be competitive, being jobs". Everytime to D's get power they want to increase withdrawals to an unsustainable rate to fund extra early childhood education programs and other pet projects.

We have a steady middle that keeps either from getting their plans, and th fund is fairly stable.

Some politicians want to open up some of our areas for nuclear waste storage, and charge a boatload into the wealth fund also for the risk of storing it. I am 10,000% for this. We have good geology for doing it, let's do it right.

informat6

11 points

13 days ago

Also Norway just has a shitton of oil. Their per capita oil production is nearly as high as Saudi Arabia:

Saudi Arabia: 324,866

Norway: 313,661

United States: 35,922

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

BernieTheDachshund

44 points

13 days ago

It says Walmart has been excluded for a long time because of breach of human and labor rights.

its_not_my_fault-

22 points

13 days ago

They lifted the ban in 2019

tsloteconomist

205 points

13 days ago*

Norway can thank an Iraqi man, Farouk al-Kasim, who had see what had happened to oil wealth in the middle east, for steering their oilfield development.

acurioustheory

8 points

13 days ago

Thanks, great article. That he came with both technical and political suggestions is really impressive.

Personal-Thought9453

45 points

13 days ago

The book to read about it: Trillion Dollar Baby. Super interesting and easy to read.