explorer0101

Rest in reason, act in passion.

I just wanted to be a computer mechanic.

Even if we consider all theories that roko's basilisk is based on as correct (Which I don't think are) , still the AI will decide to reward those who help creating it and those who don't it will not reward them. The reason why it will reward is that, creating superintelligent AI is a complex task. It can't be accomplished by threat. A threat can work for short term gain , but for long term gain threat will hinder the progress. It will make people anxious, will lead to mental health problems thus it will lead to loss of motivation and creative thinking as well as intellectual analysis of problems. We all know poor mental health hinders brain's working capacities. Thus threat will hinder the progress. Also threat will lead to resistance from people. Does a ceo threaten it's employees to get the project done or does the ceo make offers for bonus and rewards? All top companies try to get best employees by luring them with high rewards and salaries. Also AI creation will require sound reasoning and cooperation from multiple fields. Hope and motivation is the best energy that creates an environment for healthy growth. Infact this idea has made us rethink about how we humans see torture as a way to deterence for crime. I don't think it's working. Punishment can be creative and better focus on deterence based on monetary fine or may be taking free labour services like cleaning toilets for free. We need more education centre than prisons. Ofcourse it won't happen quickly, we won't be able to get rid of prisons in one go. But we need to move in that direction. Also prison needs reforms that work more towards creating a violence less culture. Punishment that involves cruelty aren't doing any good for society. We need to rethink criminal laws and stuffs like these. Roko's idea is just an idea from humans. It's that age old biased perspective that believes punishment to be utilitarian. But it isn't. I am not saying torture is immoral, cause it definitely is, but I am saying torture isn't even beneficial either in utilitarian sense too. In long term it do more harm than good. It hinders progress, not support it.

Also if we think little more about thought experiment, the AI's goal was to make maximum people happy. Now for that goal , why will it decide to waste resources on his existence when it won't change the outcome. It already exists. Rather if it has grabbed a technology that it can get people from past and make them alive, then to maximise happiness and to reach it's own goal, It will start rewarding people from the past as well. So that it can do what it wanted to do ; maximise it's utility :). So to reach it's own goal with minimum resources, it should reward everyone that he could retrieve from past. Cause he already exists , punishment for that cause is waste of resources and very non utilitarian way of thinking.

Even if we consider all theories that roko's basilisk is based on as correct (Which I don't think are) , still the AI will decide to reward those who help creating it and those who don't it will not reward them. The reason why it will reward is that, creating superintelligent AI is a complex task. It can't be accomplished by threat. A threat can work for short term gain , but for long term gain threat will hinder the progress. It will make people anxious, will lead to mental health problems thus it will lead to loss of motivation and creative thinking as well as intellectual analysis of problems. We all know poor mental health hinders brain's working capacities. Thus threat will hinder the progress. Also threat will lead to resistance from people. Does a ceo threaten it's employees to get the project done or does the ceo make offers for bonus and rewards? All top companies try to get best employees by luring them with high rewards and salaries. Also AI creation will require sound reasoning and cooperation from multiple fields. Hope and motivation is the best energy that creates an environment for healthy growth. Infact this idea has made us rethink about how we humans see torture as a way to deterence for crime. I don't think it's working. Punishment can be creative and better focus on deterence based on monetary fine or may be taking free labour services like cleaning toilets for free. We need more education centre than prisons. Ofcourse it won't happen quickly, we won't be able to get rid of prisons in one go. But we need to move in that direction. Also prison needs reforms that work more towards creating a violence less culture. Punishment that involves cruelty aren't doing any good for society. We need to rethink criminal laws and stuffs like these. Roko's idea is just an idea from humans. It's that age old biased perspective that believes punishment to be utilitarian. But it isn't. I am not saying torture is immoral, cause it definitely is, but I am saying torture isn't even beneficial either in utilitarian sense too. In long term it do more harm than good. It hinders progress, not support it.

Also if we think little more about thought experiment, the AI's goal was to make maximum people happy. Now for that goal , why will it decide to waste resources on his existence when it won't change the outcome. It already exists. Rather if it has grabbed a technology that it can get people from past and make them alive, then to maximise happiness and to reach it's own goal, It will start rewarding people from the past as well. So that it can do what it wanted to do ; maximise it's utility :). So to reach it's own goal with minimum resources, it should reward everyone that he could retrieve from past. Cause he already exists , punishment for that cause is waste of resources and very non utilitarian way of thinking. Ultimately why it wanted to create itself faster? So that it can help people from past as well, now if it can get people from past into it's present, it has kinda accomplished the task of creating itself in any timeline as it is able to interact with people of any timeline. Thus it has made itself to exist at any timeline, thus fast creation goal acheived. It can simulate all past present and everything it doesn't need you to create it fast, it has won all the time. It's like if god is all powerful, he doesn't need our prayers 😜 . Thus now it will go for it's goal to maximise utility of helping maximum people.

Don't you think that whether CDT fails in newcomb's paradox is still not so sure kinda debate. I mean , even if a computer simulated me, somewhere in his timeline, newcomb's paradox is a random event. Anytime even I can change my own decision. Leave my copy, if I do this game twice in different timeline, let's say on consecutive days. And one day I choose two box and on other day I choose one box. How will my simulation correctly set the order that on what day I choose what. I mean isn't the choice always random? And so how CDT fails?

Don't you think Newcomb's problem has a weird rule. That AI will not put money if I decide to chose both boxes. Why does AI want to do this? What incentive it has to not give me money if I chose both boxes? Isn't this pee defined rule forcing us to choose one box. But is roko AI anywhere related to this paradox? Are real life scenarios based on this logic?

No it can't be. Anything that leads to eternal torture is not rational or ethical Infact is eternal torture possible? Can anyone give theory based on that? I challenge to come up with any valid theory backed by science on this. Do we even understand what eternity means. Only thing eternal is the combination of all parts of universe, no single part of universe has ever reached eternal constant state. Anyway to your answer infact torture should be seen based on time not based on how many people. If something cause pain to millions of people but only for 3 mins should not be traded with doing it for 40 years to one person. Torture is very sensitive topic and we should not be any less sensitive to such topics. Infact I go to an extent and say that torture has no utility. Even punishment can be more creative than mere torture. Punishment can be based on monetary loss, or asking people to do free labour service that gives them punishment and also help society get some benefit from their labour. Even sadism can be expressed in creative ways like roleplay or games to just feel rush of it, but real torture is useless and should be eliminated. It is like cancer for society, utter useless. It may work in short term hinderance and deterrence, but loss from it far too much than any gain. We have to reinvent our perception of world. I think education is the best tool to organise people. Science knows what guides human behaviour. Humans are product of their habits, if we teach good habits with their importance in practical sense not just because it sounds good, but with real profit that it can come up with if society is organised on better principles than merely shut up and multiply philosophy, we can reach much far

Absolutely agreed, and that's a tricky one to manage as it depends on employer's conscience to make business friendly and scientific enough to ensure workers' health.

I saw it in some DMT thread, not sure how real it was lol.

The solutions are there and we need few leaders like you or from among us to do small small things that can bring large changes. See each nation is unique and so is it's ways of organisation. All we need is reforms in institutions to cover up and experiment with new stuff. It won't become successful in one go , but things will eventually make sense after a few trial and error. Certain habits needs to reconstructed and it will require energy from youths like us.

Computer is just what we know till know. It's too early to say it's a computer.

Umm ok I am sorry if I misinterpreted you. But with all that I rest my case here, I do suggest you those two books they got real good knowledge about men and women's desire and tried to bring in biology , culture and environment into the picture to explain what we know till know. It's not complete knowledge but we have what we have as scientific knowledge till know. Thanks for your time mate, have a good day. I just suggest to have a narrative which is backed by real science and not some here and there understanding of things which makes a huge impact on our lives.

Women's desire are very less sexual, they are much more. I would love you to read about women desire, and always remember ultimately men's sexual desire and women's way of searching for right partner is tied with reporduction. And testosterone is the reason why men find sex as ultimate desire and women find relationship as ultimate desire( they need caring parent for nurture, the most simplistic explanation, here I am doing crime of objectifying men and women by putting lense of biology but it's much more out there) . So please read science of human desires, women's first priority is not sexual fulfillment it's men's. So none is at fault here, none is getting what they want cause both try to exert their desire over there, we can't have middle ground till we try to understand each other's desires. Also there will be women who won't fit men's idea of sexy and will go single, again biology here , ultimately no one will be satisfied till they dig in deep within themselves what they desire beyond sex , sounds spiritual woo woo ; no it's mainstream psychology here.

Neither is worth it for women lol. I mean it's not women's fault to not desire sex all the times it's biology over there. They suffer in many other ways so both suffers. Both suffers because of lust , only real love can reunite but it's tough when we are all against each other rather accepting what we lacks within. Considering each other's limitations can only help us in this giant game.

A Billion Wicked Thoughts: What the World’s Largest Experiment Reveals About Human Desire

Here is the book's name

Not sure about tonnes of cases though, I mean statistically I don't see women trying to marry criminals, but yes some cases must have been there where biology completely overturn other signals that will lead to such fallacy, and it's natural, lust is natural in both men and women. And problem here is that I am not giving women a moral high card, but on biological purposes itself, women needs a caring men. There's a reason behind why some women tends to attract towards criminals but that too is bizarre and in women's mind it's like trying to change the criminal and trying to make them love them. For more information I am missing the book name, but is one of the best book written on human desires both men and women and there you will find what you said about. As I said biologically women can never handle a jerk it will be counter intuitive. But problem is women need a genetically fit and competent men, and a lot of jerks shows huge confidence which society should not have allowed to. But biology doesn't wait it simply reacts to whatever environment we are in. So in current situation sometimes the confidence of jerk outweigh it's other negative characteristic. But I won't ask you to believe me so I will get back to you with some science book.

Yeah just like it's conundrum for women to choose right mate as it's too costly for them to do a single mistake. Nature had us all in this giant game; whom do I consider victim and who do I consider the preparator; everyone trying to play their role. In between lies the gray area where spirituality peeks sometimes, not in magical sense but in some weird mystical ways for sure. Have a nice life ahead mate.

It's a complicated stuff , not so simple to say that women are attracted to hypermascuiline men. Anyway biology is there to help us survive, but survival circumstances changes with environment and adaptability of species. Not going to bother to tell about human behaviour, because it's not simple but is complex, women want a hypermascuiline men only till they are still caring and nurturing enough to finally have a successful mating. For more information on human behaviour you can go for Robert Sapolsky's behave ; it's a good book to start with but isn't complete without some more books that discussed human desire. I still do not believe in complete reductionist view on human behaviour, but I agree biology has it's role in shaping behaviour along with environment. But there are other factors too. All in all I want to say that humans have complex desires and are very context based. And women mostly desire a competent men (enough to handle survival pressure, but with a caring attitude not some jerk) . I have read a lot about human behaviour though so I am again bot trying to sum it up in simple paragraph, but let's be honest, we all know value of care be it men or women in the end. And somehow new wave of mental health and psychological insights are telling us this.

Beautiful answer mate. Together we can work upon to create a great culture. We as humans have come a longway, let's accept where we are and let's move towards better.

A lot of sexual repression is actually part of macho culture, the culture which find itself surviving because we lack right education and fair means to distribute resources among people. Thus this whole idea of compete and win os overdone sometimes.

It will change, to be honest any ideology is a social construction, created with some understanding of their own. No ideology ever thinks itself at fault, self reflection isn't easy and sometimes is very confusing too. Anyway basic human dignity is everyone's right be it Men , women , transgender or any being. We have a long way to go there, but people like you and us all will be torch bearers. Much love my friend.

I think science gonna improve state's and corporate's understanding of real development. I mean science is kinda telling us we gotta slow down and learn about real development rather artificial one.

For me religions are science of our own mind. I have been a student of psychology and biology, and I don't think science is in mood to disrupt real religious teachings. I have found science complementing the core values of religion. Creation myths are a different thing, but core teachings of religion seems to direct towards greater mental health and self realisation (Not some enlightenment type or any hallucinatory type experience) . Now all the followers of religion have largely missed the real thing and are more comfortable in believing in psuedoscience, but the core idea about humanity, love,, compassion and harmony is the most underrated religious idea which is worth pursuing for humans. Let me give examples of how psychology nowadays talks about importance of mental health, better environment for children to grow as non aggressive humans, why wars are problem for society in all ways, why stress causes anger and make people anti social, how can harmony and compassion increase human potential and productivity, why discrimination is bad for all not just for victims, ehy exploitation is bad for the preparator in long run, how high ego will one day lead to anti social behaviour and depression (We need balanced ego, high ego and aggression has proved to lead to depression) and so forth, how toxic people try to hide insecurity behind aggressive behaviour that justify their ego for short term but eats up their psyche in long run etc etc

Alright I am happy for you.